My totally unsolicited idea on how to improve Lucid Service

[martinjlm]

If by some bizarre twist of fate I was put in charge of Lucid's Service Operations I would partner with a third party to provide service for all Lucid products. The partnering would involve training technicians at the third party, providing them the requisite tool sets that position them to work on Lucid vehicles, and providing service parts at the same prices that in-house service centers get parts. Consideration for partnership would be, in order...

1. Non-branded multi-product networks like Carvana or AutoNation. These outlets are used to dealing with multiple brands that are not their own. Lucid could train bespoke specialists to intake, diagnose and repair Lucid vehicles. These outlets could also be used as outlets to recondition, sell and distribute Lucid's CPO products when leased vehicles are returned off-lease.
2. Ford. Ford has familiarity with EVs (Lightning, Mach E) but does not have a portfolio of EV products that would be positioned to compete with Lucid. Training of techs would not be starting from zero.
3. GM. GM has a very broad (and growing) portfolio of EVs and arguably a better knowledge base to draw from in training techs to work on Lucid vehicles. There is a risk, particularly with the Cadillac portfolio, of portfolio interaction. On one hand, you're dealing with a service employee base that is familiar with the demands and requirements of luxury vehicle owners. On the other hand, there is potential to lose some customers to the Cadillac new car showroom.

In any event, Lucid would still maintain control on service procedures, administration of warranty, and the management of customer relations. Lucid would still be able to maintain direct sales for new vehicles, but the expense of building a large geographically sufficient service network could be mitigated and the rate of growth of service capability would be more in line with what is needed to support Air, Gravity, and the upcoming midsize vehicles.

 

[Macrocosmcwh]

If by some bizarre twist of fate I was put in charge of Lucid's Service Operations I would partner with a third party to provide service for all Lucid products. The partnering would involve training technicians at the third party, providing them the requisite tool sets that position them to work on Lucid vehicles, and providing service parts at the same prices that in-house service centers get parts. Consideration for partnership would be, in order...

1. Non-branded multi-product networks like Carvana or AutoNation. These outlets are used to dealing with multiple brands that are not their own. Lucid could train bespoke specialists to intake, diagnose and repair Lucid vehicles. These outlets could also be used as outlets to recondition, sell and distribute Lucid's CPO products when leased vehicles are returned off-lease.
2. Ford. Ford has familiarity with EVs (Lightning, Mach E) but does not have a portfolio of EV products that would be positioned to compete with Lucid. Training of techs would not be starting from zero.
3. GM. GM has a very broad (and growing) portfolio of EVs and arguably a better knowledge base to draw from in training techs to work on Lucid vehicles. There is a risk, particularly with the Cadillac portfolio, of portfolio interaction. On one hand, you're dealing with a service employee base that is familiar with the demands and requirements of luxury vehicle owners. On the other hand, there is potential to lose some customers to the Cadillac new car showroom.

In any event, Lucid would still maintain control on service procedures, administration of warranty, and the management of customer relations. Lucid would still be able to maintain direct sales for new vehicles, but the expense of building a large geographically sufficient service network could be mitigated and the rate of growth of service capability would be more in line with what is needed to support Air, Gravity, and the upcoming midsize vehicles.

I am gonna watch this one closely.... haha everyone here hates dealerships from what I can tell.... Interested in what everyone says.

 

[Northpointe]

Lucid, like any other car brand, needs to own the customer experience start to finish if they're going to flourish. As a start-up there are going to be growing pains as they scale and it's something that we'll unfortunately have to live with.

It's a bit unrealistic to believe that Lucid should invest in training third parties, who are loyal to other brands and corporate owners, to perform what is essentially a critical function of the manufacturer. Consider the negative ownership feedback that the company has had to endure by using a third-party (BofA) to provide lease financing as one example. Right or wrong when something goes bad with service it's Lucid's reputation that's on the line - as it should be. That should be all the motivation they need to get it right.

 

[martinjlm]

I am gonna watch this one closely.... haha everyone here hates dealerships from what I can tell.... Interested in what everyone says.

People tend to hate dealerships because of the purchase experience. That wouldn't change. Still a direct purchase from Lucid for a new vehicle. On the other hand, how's the "anything but a dealership" model working out right now for serviceability? Full disclosure...I've had GREAT experiences so far (knock on wood) with the Coldwater, Michigan service center. But some folks are nervous about having to work through service centers that are several hours away. This type of arrangement would mitigate that.

 

[martinjlm]

Lucid, like any other car brand, needs to own the customer experience start to finish if they're going to flourish. As a start-up there are going to be growing pains as they scale and it's something that we'll unfortunately have to live with.

It's a bit unrealistic to believe that Lucid should invest in training third parties, who are loyal to other brands and corporate owners, to perform what is essentially a critical function of the manufacturer. Consider the negative ownership feedback that the company has had to endure by using a third-party (BofA) to provide lease financing as one example. Right or wrong when something goes bad with service it's Lucid's reputation that's on the line - as it should be. That should be all the motivation they need to get it right.

Thing is, there are Right-to-Repair laws in most, if not all states, so the availability of training, tools, and parts is gonna happen anyway. May as well take control of that aspect.

 

[hmp10]

People tend to hate dealerships because of the purchase experience. That wouldn't change. Still a direct purchase from Lucid for a new vehicle. On the other hand, how's the "anything but a dealership" model working out right now for serviceability? Full disclosure...I've had GREAT experiences so far (knock on wood) with the Coldwater, Michigan service center. But some folks are nervous about having to work through service centers that are several hours away. This type of arrangement would mitigate that.

Same here. My disdain of traditional car dealers has a lot more to do with the sales room than the service department.

 

[Solomente]

On the flipside, if I was put in charge of Ford or GM (by the same bizarre twist of fate) I would never consider having my service people work on Lucids. Why would I help a competitor with their service problems? And this is without even factoring in the very low ROI on training and overhead to support a less than 50k total cars on the road (is it even 30k at this point?). Lucid might appreciate some help but it makes no business sense for anyone else to do it. No, if I was at GM or Ford, what I would be doing instead is hiring the techs that got laid off from Lucid.

 

[socktucker]

I think that idea assumes that these places would even want to work with Lucid. There are networks that won't take trade ins on Teslas, lots of body shops won't work on Teslas either. Lucid being so proprietary you have to find a shop that even wants to spend the time and money it takes to fix one. It would be bad ROI for almost anyone at this point.

 

[borski]

I think that idea assumes that these places would even want to work with Lucid. There are networks that won't take trade ins on Teslas, lots of body shops won't work on Teslas either. Lucid being so proprietary you have to find a shop that even wants to spend the time and money it takes to fix one. It would be bad ROI for almost anyone at this point.

Yeah there’s no money to be made in repairing high value luxury vehicles. No upside.

 

[socktucker]

Yeah there’s no money to be made in repairing high value luxury vehicles. No upside.

You're actually right, no shop can survive doing high end luxury vehicle repairs. There is more money in honda and toyota bumpers than ANY luxury car. That's while your big houses don't even take them unless they get an exclusive with a high volume EV like Caliber has with Tesla. Do I want to put 30 hours into a luxury car what will pay me the same as 10 toyota bumpers and take twice as long? No. And its way easier to find 10 toyotas to fix than one BMW or Bentley, for example.

There is also the matter of the equipment to do it. I think the bodyshop investment side is what kills it. Its what kills it with Tesla too, and even companies like BMW and Mercedes usually have thier own bodyshops now because doing anything but focusing exactly on what they can get a steady supply of is cost prohibitive. Sometimes they partner with a Caliber or CC to do it, but rarely ever will an independent shop be able to afford the equipment work on on an EV. I didn't mean Lucid in particular, that's why I brought up Tesla. Tesla makes the best selling car in the world, and its still obscenely expensive for a shop to get the gear to work on it. And don't forget the nature of how much work is sublet. Autobody shops don't usually have allignment racks, for example, but they tons of cars need aligned so they will have a deal with an alignement shop. Also, tehy all use Keystone/LKQ for parts and those networks don't sell Lucid stuff. That's like opening a sandwhich shop but your supplier doesn't deliver tomatoes.

Also I'd like to think Lucid sees this is a potential future source of revenue, like Tesla and Rivian, by being able to offer their own services outside of warranty.

And, don't discount the effect Private Equity acquistion of independent body shops has had: they don't want anything that is not the quickest buck possible. Insurance only, no EV's, no luxury, nothing over 10000lbs maybe even 8500.

 

[BS8899]

While I agree with most of the forum readers' responses that a wholesale outsourcing of service is probably unrealistic, I think there are some tasks that might be readily outsourced that could help Lucid focus on the high value-add stuff in their SCs.

Specifically:

> Lucid has already outsourced the body shop stuff. I think that was the right move. That said, a lot of EVs, Lucid included, are choked full of sensors in the body panels. (I think) Lucid is still on the hooks for the senor alignment/calibration. Perhaps they can train one body shop per metropolitan area to do that.
> similarly, glass replacement can/should be outsourced. Yes, there might be calibration requirements. But that can be managed.
>tires, and perhaps front-end alignment, should also be outsourced. Discount Tires does a good job. They worked on my 2022AGT a month ago (nail in the tire). Took them about an hour. No charge!
> what about wheel alignment? Some Discount Tire stores can do that as well. Lucid charged me $350 for wheel alignment. I think it will be less outside.
> my (Paradise Valley) Costco refused to do my Lucid tires because they don't have the lift-pucks and the training. That is an easily fixable problem. Discount Tires did my tires using a regular floor jack!
> what bout windshield wipers? On paper, I know Lucid makes a hefty margin on replacing your windshield wiper. But that's a stupid use of shop time. Let's be realistic. Lucid needs to stay in business and not worry about making $50-$80 on replacing my wiper blades!
> Perhaps the inside cabin work can also be outsourced.

If Lucid did all of the above, they can focus on the electronic diagnostics, SW issues, the drive train, the battery, and the Wunderbox.

It will improve the SC's services to the customers and save a bundle on Enterprise rentals that Lucid pays for!

 

[Northpointe]

The best way to improve Lucid service is accomplished by improving the manufacturing process. My service issues, other than the scheduled maintenance, have been to correct fit and finish problems from the factory (I.e., loose trim, squeaks/rattles, wind noise). And many of the comments I’ve read confirm this is a problem. It’s as if the service centers are often doing quality control to fix production issues. This overwhelms the service center staff and is costly. It’s bad for owners and shareholders. Addressing the problem at the source would go a long way to easing pressure on the service centers.

 

[Adnillien]

> Lucid has already outsourced the body shop stuff. I think that was the right move. That said, a lot of EVs, Lucid included, are choked full of sensors in the body panels. (I think) Lucid is still on the hooks for the senor alignment/calibration. Perhaps they can train one body shop per metropolitan area to do that.
> similarly, glass replacement can/should be outsourced. Yes, there might be calibration requirements. But that can be managed.

In Phoenix, Raintree can do both of these including the calibration.

 

[Adnillien]

The best way to improve Lucid service is accomplished by improving the manufacturing process. My service issues, other than the scheduled maintenance, have been to correct fit and finish problems from the factory (I.e., loose trim, squeaks/rattles, wind noise). It’s as if the service centers are often doing quality control to fix issues in production. This overwhelms the service center staff and costly. It’s bad for owners and shareholders. Addressing the problem at the source would go a long way to easing pressure on the service centers.

I completely agree with this. Fix the quality at the factory so that service is not chasing these issues.

 

[BS8899]

The best way to improve Lucid service is accomplished by improving the manufacturing process. My service issues, other than the scheduled maintenance, have been to correct fit and finish problems from the factory (I.e., loose trim, squeaks/rattles, wind noise). It’s as if the service centers are often doing quality control to fix issues in production. This overwhelms the service center staff and costly. It’s bad for owners and shareholders. Addressing the problem at the source would go a long way to easing pressure on the service centers.

Good point! A lot of this stuff can be done by body shops. You don't have to train every body shop in town. Just enable one or two shops in each major metro area.

 

[BS8899]

In Phoenix, Raintree can do both of these including the calibration.

Yeah, Lucid doesn't do body work stuff anywhere. And that is the right approach!

I had a rear panel come lose because one of the attach points was torn. I took it to a shop in San Rafael. Instead of replacing the panel, they "welded" (bonded) an attach point to it and charged me $165, basically 1hr of shop work. Works for me!

 

[socktucker]

Yeah, Lucid doesn't do body work stuff anywhere. And that is the right approach!

They do some actually but nothing structural.

 

[martinjlm]

GM dealers repaired 11,000 Teslas in 2022On the flipside, if I was put in charge of Ford or GM (by the same bizarre twist of fate) I would never consider having my service people work on Lucids. Why would I help a competitor with their service problems? And this is without even factoring in the very low ROI on training and overhead to support a less than 50k total cars on the road (is it even 30k at this point?). Lucid might appreciate some help but it makes no business sense for anyone else to do it. No, if I was at GM or Ford, what I would be doing instead is hiring the techs that got laid off from Lucid.

A few years ago GM President Mark Reuss commented on how GM dealers made a new business model repairing Teslas. GM Dealers repaired 11,000 Teslas in 2022

 

[BS8899]

They do some actually but nothing structural.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I think Lucid should not bother with body work stuff. Let the outside shops deal with it. It saves Lucid time and money.

 

[martinjlm]

Yeah there’s no money to be made in repairing high value luxury vehicles. No upside.

You're actually right, no shop can survive doing high end luxury vehicle repairs. There is more money in honda and toyota bumpers than ANY luxury car. That's while your big houses don't even take them unless they get an exclusive with a high volume EV like Caliber has with Tesla. Do I want to put 30 hours into a luxury car what will pay me the same as 10 toyota bumpers and take twice as long? No. And its way easier to find 10 toyotas to fix than one BMW or Bentley, for example.

There is also the matter of the equipment to do it. I think the bodyshop investment side is what kills it. Its what kills it with Tesla too, and even companies like BMW and Mercedes usually have thier own bodyshops now because doing anything but focusing exactly on what they can get a steady supply of is cost prohibitive. Sometimes they partner with a Caliber or CC to do it, but rarely ever will an independent shop be able to afford the equipment work on on an EV. I didn't mean Lucid in particular, that's why I brought up Tesla. Tesla makes the best selling car in the world, and its still obscenely expensive for a shop to get the gear to work on it. And don't forget the nature of how much work is sublet. Autobody shops don't usually have allignment racks, for example, but they tons of cars need aligned so they will have a deal with an alignement shop. Also, tehy all use Keystone/LKQ for parts and those networks don't sell Lucid stuff. That's like opening a sandwhich shop but your supplier doesn't deliver tomatoes.

Also I'd like to think Lucid sees this is a potential future source of revenue, like Tesla and Rivian, by being able to offer their own services outside of warranty.

And, don't discount the effect Private Equity acquistion of independent body shops has had: they don't want anything that is not the quickest buck possible. Insurance only, no EV's, no luxury, nothing over 10000lbs maybe even 8500.

That would be true if they ONLY repaired high value luxury vehicles. But when you are working with full portfolio brands like Cadillac or Ford, you're dealing with entities that are not seeing the problem(s) for the first time and that are experienced in handling them efficiently. Most of the processes and procedures are similar between luxury makes and mainstream makes. Many are exactly the same. The differences typically involve model specific tooling that would be recognized in any sort of bilateral agreement. What's the difference in replacing a Lucid Air electric motor vs a Cadillac Lyriq electric motor vs a Chevrolet Blazer EV electric motor? Tools required to access would be the biggest issue.

Body shop and paint work is already one of the first things that get contracted out. Socktucker's reference to Caliber and CC is spot-on. That's gonna happen anyway. It's the warranty repair and systems repair work that will be of issue. The smattering of annoying, but not disabling issues where an owner would not be predisposed to send the car to a service center 3 or 4 hours away that their neighbor can get fixed by making an appointment with the dealer a few miles away. Getting door handles to extend / retract correctly. There's a rattle behind one of the 21 speakers. The wipers are mistimed. Mobile service can and should fix most of those types of things, but if they can't what's the backup plan? Ship the car to a service center where it gets to stand in line and might even get bumped because of more critical repairs.