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Open letter to Lucid after 7 months of ownership

Having the phone in hand instead of back pocket also dramatically improves the response time.
 
It’s way easier to snipe from the sidelines than it is to actually do stuff.

Every Monday morning quarterback who suddenly finds himself starting for the NFL learns that the hard way.

Just putting that out there.

Of course the software isn’t there yet. For me personally, I experience almost none of the issues reported here on a regular basis. But I can read. And obviously I don’t think you all are making this stuff up.

But what that tells me is there is variance from owner to owner, car to car, in how the software performs. And that tells me it’s some sort of combination of hardware and software, and / or the communication in between causing many of these problems.

Welcome to building anything on an assembly line. And welcome to integrating hundreds of software components you don’t control from dozens of different manufacturers.

For all the folks who run software engineering teams, congrats. Unless you run a team in the automotive industry, you might as well play basketball for a living. Your experience is not as relevant as you think it is. Take everything you know about programming a computer and multiply the complexity by a thousand.

Again, not making excuses. Not trying to defend anyone. Just stating the obvious. That it’s a heck of a lot easier to rant on the internet than it is to ship great products.

Just ask Porsche. Mercedes. Audi. VW. They’ve all had to rethink their approach to software over the past decade. And they still get open letters on forums just like Lucid does.

Those of us who have been around for three or four years have watched Lucid’s software get a lot better. And that was while the software org seems to have not really made any major improvements in process.

This is the first time they seem to be truly shaking things up. Will it work out? Who knows?

Lucid underestimated the importance and challenge of software from the outset. They got everything else right.

The cars look great and drive great. They’re safe. And they are (relatively) pretty reliable from a hardware standpoint, as far as we know so far.

They’re getting by with that for the time being. But those early software decisions are catching up with them. Fast.

Time will tell if they can turn it around. Having met Emad a few times, I feel like they are in a better position now than they were six months ago. But it’s a long road ahead.

One thing is for sure; it’s not going to be all fine and dandy in two months. It’s going to take a while still. But if they address the biggest issues one by one and make progress over the next half year or so, we’ll know whether they have finally found their groove.

Meantime, if you are having issues, I sympathize. I really hope it gets better for you faster than I think it will. No one here would fault you for moving on to another manufacturer, or for continuing to express your frustration constructively. Lucid knows they aren’t there yet. Doesn’t hurt to keep telling them, regardless.
 
PAAK (iPhone 17 pro) has been nothing short of great for me since about two updates ago. Astonishingly better compared to before that. Great about 95% of the time, the other 5% I have to press the door handle (a lot more if the phone has been in range of the car for a while until it decides to disable passive unlock, then a handle press is mandatory). It now unlocks the car from much greater range and coming from directions that never worked before (e.g. approaching the trunk).

Have never carried fob, just key card for backup (tested, but never had to use). And yes, absolutely, if phone is in your back pocket, it's far less reliable. Waking up phone so that bluetooth is fully active (yes, that's not desirable) and it's close to 100%, for me and my 2025 Air anyway (obviously this is not everyone's experience).
 
it’s not variance on assembly line.

It’s a combination of a design not robust enough to cover natural variances in an assembly line and conditions the feature is exposed to.

For example they might not have enough BLE radios. Or not mounted in optimal positions. It could be a software issue as well in knowing how to program this in the mobile device. It’s gets very tricky.

BLE is extremely sensitive to interference.

I have developed several BLE apps in iOS and Android that connect to various devices with no user intervention. One was a medical device that was FDA approved. And it HAD to work every time to warn user of a problem. It is tricky to make reliable.

But What I do isn’t quite the same because this BLE key also adds proximity of the phone to the car for security which adds another layer of complexity. And uses multiple radios.

They also have to manage interference from other devices interfering with signal. So it needs a lot of experience in knowing where to place radios, not generate interference from other devices (shielding, using appropriate frequencies) understand the math for all the proximity use cases and plan for inevitable variations in assembling cars.

I don’t know for sure if there may be calibration steps at the factory too. Likely.

Are those calibrations automated or manual? Are they subject to user error?

This is not a trivial problem for sure, but other venders show it’s very doable and Lucid just hasn’t yet figured it out yet. And I believe I’ve seen other venders struggle with this too.
 
Oh and for the record iPhone 17 pro uses new Apple Silicon BLE radio (formerly it was always Broadcom) and that has caused new headaches with Teslas. It’s an Apple problem. It has something to do with losing credentials which can only be restored while in range.
 
I have had a GT for over 3 years. While I had early issues and most were around Apple Car Play, I haven’t had any after the first year. I absolutely love the car. I have two issues that affect all owners. First, it is unbelievable that they haven’t opened more show rooms. They have made a great car and have the worst marketing I have ever seen. Second, not offering an extended warranty program hurts us all. One of the reasons the resale value is so bad is their poor marketing and owner support reduces demand. It directly lowers used car values which hurts us all. Mike
 
It is easy to get used to extra second or two to unlock door, its even easier to get used to how awesome the car drives.

Not saying they shouldn't improve the software but while they are doing that, 1 second to unlock the car gets me hours of pleasure driving it is a good trade off.

Wouldn't want it the other way around.
 
Ktw13 said:
It is easy to get used to extra second or two to unlock door, its even easier to get used to how awesome the car drives.

Not saying they shouldn't improve the software but while they are doing that, 1 second to unlock the car gets me hours of pleasure driving it is a good trade off.

Wouldn't want it the other way around.
Click to expand...
Hours to get going, then one second of pleasure…..quit making fun of me. 😜
 
This is a “problem” with every car and just about anything in life.

Not just the Key but everything.

You just accept it and make compromises. My wife is a compromise. She is not perfect. But overall I could not ask for a better wife.

One thing that happens is you get used to having one feature work well on one car and expect it to work as well or better on the next. It’s very easy to obsess over it.

Focus on the things you love and joke /laugh about the things that just don’t work.

I had a model 3 that had the phone key and it worked perfect from day one. But I gave up a Grand Cherokee Summit that I loved. And CarPlay on it was awesome. I just accepted that the Tesla didn’t have it (I don’t miss car play at all any more).

But turns out I wasn’t very happy with the 3 because it wasn’t an SUV. But I loved a bunch of other things about it. Doggy mode was a huge win for us. I refuse to compromise on that now.

So I switched to an X. But I lost the Phone key (2019). I just had to accept it knowing it up front. Not stress over it. That damn FOB would trigger in my pocket too and I go out to my car see the hatch was wide open all day in the rain. Had to buy a guard for it.

Then I switched to an S (with a hatchback it’s damn close to an SUV) and I added a hitch to tow stuff. It did almost everything right (for me). Compromises were not good clearance for mud and snow. And no proper power to the trailer. But I accepted and enjoyed the car. I loved the 405 mile range. Probably supercharged 5 times in 3 years. I got the S because it was super cheap at the time to trade the X for an S. Cost me peanuts during Covid. X I had became a legacy when “refresh came out”. So I’d not see nearly as many software improvements on the legacy X (which I got VERY used to).

My most recent purchase,I seriously considered a Gravity. I had one on order. Compromises were very very high price, a lot of known bugs and software glitches that might not ever get fixed, a lot of teething pains for a new car company, no service near by. That was a lot of compromises to make. But if I did go forward I’m just have to accept it. Also FSD (HW3) meanwhile was getting crazy good. My (compromised wife) kept saying you are gonna miss FSD every time I showed her something new it did. So I’d lose FSD too. I know I’d get a nice driving car. But the S and X were absolutely acceptable driving wise. One way I was justifying Gravity price was V2L /V2H which turns out was complete vaporware (on almost every EV accept a few pickups).

So I ended up canceling Gravity and getting another X. But I had to compromise on the range and luxury feeling drive of Gravity. And a bunch of Model X quirks that are very well known. I also compromised on getting a 2025 instead of 2026 due to huge price increase.

It’s all compromises.
 
mswlogo said:
This is a “problem” with every car and just about anything in life.

Not just the Key but everything.

You just accept it and make compromises. My wife is a compromise. She is not perfect. But overall I could not ask for a better wife.

One thing that happens is you get used to having one feature work well on one car and expect it to work as well or better on the next. It’s very easy to obsess over it.

Focus on the things you love and joke /laugh about the things that just don’t work.

I had a model 3 that had the phone key and it worked perfect from day one. But I gave up a Grand Cherokee Summit that I loved. And CarPlay on it was awesome. I just accepted that the Tesla didn’t have it (I don’t miss car play at all any more).

But turns out I wasn’t very happy with the 3 because it wasn’t an SUV. But I loved a bunch of other things about it. Doggy mode was a huge win for us. I refuse to compromise on that now.

So I switched to an X. But I lost the Phone key (2019). I just had to accept it knowing it up front. Not stress over it. That damn FOB would trigger in my pocket too and I go out to my car see the hatch was wide open all day in the rain. Had to buy a guard for it.

Then I switched to an S (with a hatchback it’s damn close to an SUV) and I added a hitch to tow stuff. It did almost everything right (for me). Compromises were not good clearance for mud and snow. And no proper power to the trailer. But I accepted and enjoyed the car. I loved the 405 mile range. Probably supercharged 5 times in 3 years. I got the S because it was super cheap at the time to trade the X for an S. Cost me peanuts during Covid. X I had became a legacy when “refresh came out”. So I’d not see nearly as many software improvements on the legacy X (which I got VERY used to).

My most recent purchase,I seriously considered a Gravity. I had one on order. Compromises were very very high price, a lot of known bugs and software glitches that might not ever get fixed, a lot of teething pains for a new car company, no service near by. That was a lot of compromises to make. But if I did go forward I’m just have to accept it. Also FSD (HW3) meanwhile was getting crazy good. My (compromised wife) kept saying you are gonna miss FSD every time I showed her something new it did. So I’d lose FSD too. I know I’d get a nice driving car. But the S and X were absolutely acceptable driving wise. One way I was justifying Gravity price was V2L /V2H which turns out was complete vaporware (on almost every EV accept a few pickups).

So I ended up canceling Gravity and getting another X. But I had to compromise on the range and luxury feeling drive of Gravity. And a bunch of Model X quirks that are very well known. I also compromised on getting a 2025 instead of 2026 due to huge price increase.

It’s all compromises.
Click to expand...
well, on the Eastern Race, the X came it 3rd, behind 2 Gravities. Pretty darn good showing!

Yes, there will also be compromises.

In my opinion, the challenges for Lucid are:

>Lucid is great on the electro-mechanical stuff. It sucks on integration and SW.
>anything that impedes entry (i.e., locking/unlocking) to the car is a big RED FLAG. It is not just a SW quirk. It is a safety issue.
> Lucid (at this point in time) does not have the infrastructure and culture (via-a-via, SW development/validation/bug-fix, Service Center, etc.) to support a larger market.
> Lucid's track record on addressing SW issues and their resolution is significantly below par. Yes, I know SW have bugs, been there, done that! But, to address a mass market (e.g., 20kU plus/year mid-size), it isn't going to work! Their methodology on SW development, validation, bug resolution, service center, will become big showstoppers when they try to tackle the mid-size market.

I hope Lucid can fix these impediments. If not, they will go down the same path as Jaguar, Lotus, etc..
 
mswlogo said:
This is a “problem” with every car and just about anything in life.

Not just the Key but everything.

You just accept it and make compromises. My wife is a compromise. She is not perfect. But overall I could not ask for a better wife.

One thing that happens is you get used to having one feature work well on one car and expect it to work as well or better on the next. It’s very easy to obsess over it.

Focus on the things you love and joke /laugh about the things that just don’t work.

I had a model 3 that had the phone key and it worked perfect from day one. But I gave up a Grand Cherokee Summit that I loved. And CarPlay on it was awesome. I just accepted that the Tesla didn’t have it (I don’t miss car play at all any more).

But turns out I wasn’t very happy with the 3 because it wasn’t an SUV. But I loved a bunch of other things about it. Doggy mode was a huge win for us. I refuse to compromise on that now.

So I switched to an X. But I lost the Phone key (2019). I just had to accept it knowing it up front. Not stress over it. That damn FOB would trigger in my pocket too and I go out to my car see the hatch was wide open all day in the rain. Had to buy a guard for it.

Then I switched to an S (with a hatchback it’s damn close to an SUV) and I added a hitch to tow stuff. It did almost everything right (for me). Compromises were not good clearance for mud and snow. And no proper power to the trailer. But I accepted and enjoyed the car. I loved the 405 mile range. Probably supercharged 5 times in 3 years. I got the S because it was super cheap at the time to trade the X for an S. Cost me peanuts during Covid. X I had became a legacy when “refresh came out”. So I’d not see nearly as many software improvements on the legacy X (which I got VERY used to).

My most recent purchase,I seriously considered a Gravity. I had one on order. Compromises were very very high price, a lot of known bugs and software glitches that might not ever get fixed, a lot of teething pains for a new car company, no service near by. That was a lot of compromises to make. But if I did go forward I’m just have to accept it. Also FSD (HW3) meanwhile was getting crazy good. My (compromised wife) kept saying you are gonna miss FSD every time I showed her something new it did. So I’d lose FSD too. I know I’d get a nice driving car. But the S and X were absolutely acceptable driving wise. One way I was justifying Gravity price was V2L /V2H which turns out was complete vaporware (on almost every EV accept a few pickups).

So I ended up canceling Gravity and getting another X. But I had to compromise on the range and luxury feeling drive of Gravity. And a bunch of Model X quirks that are very well known. I also compromised on getting a 2025 instead of 2026 due to huge price increase.

It’s all compromises.
Click to expand...
Seek to continually minimize compromises; set and manage expectations. Perfection may be rare but not impossible to attain depending on the situation.
 
mswlogo said:
This is a “problem” with every car and just about anything in life.

Not just the Key but everything.

You just accept it and make compromises. My wife is a compromise. She is not perfect. But overall I could not ask for a better wife.

One thing that happens is you get used to having one feature work well on one car and expect it to work as well or better on the next. It’s very easy to obsess over it.

Focus on the things you love and joke /laugh about the things that just don’t work.

I had a model 3 that had the phone key and it worked perfect from day one. But I gave up a Grand Cherokee Summit that I loved. And CarPlay on it was awesome. I just accepted that the Tesla didn’t have it (I don’t miss car play at all any more).

But turns out I wasn’t very happy with the 3 because it wasn’t an SUV. But I loved a bunch of other things about it. Doggy mode was a huge win for us. I refuse to compromise on that now.

So I switched to an X. But I lost the Phone key (2019). I just had to accept it knowing it up front. Not stress over it. That damn FOB would trigger in my pocket too and I go out to my car see the hatch was wide open all day in the rain. Had to buy a guard for it.

Then I switched to an S (with a hatchback it’s damn close to an SUV) and I added a hitch to tow stuff. It did almost everything right (for me). Compromises were not good clearance for mud and snow. And no proper power to the trailer. But I accepted and enjoyed the car. I loved the 405 mile range. Probably supercharged 5 times in 3 years. I got the S because it was super cheap at the time to trade the X for an S. Cost me peanuts during Covid. X I had became a legacy when “refresh came out”. So I’d not see nearly as many software improvements on the legacy X (which I got VERY used to).

My most recent purchase,I seriously considered a Gravity. I had one on order. Compromises were very very high price, a lot of known bugs and software glitches that might not ever get fixed, a lot of teething pains for a new car company, no service near by. That was a lot of compromises to make. But if I did go forward I’m just have to accept it. Also FSD (HW3) meanwhile was getting crazy good. My (compromised wife) kept saying you are gonna miss FSD every time I showed her something new it did. So I’d lose FSD too. I know I’d get a nice driving car. But the S and X were absolutely acceptable driving wise. One way I was justifying Gravity price was V2L /V2H which turns out was complete vaporware (on almost every EV accept a few pickups).

So I ended up canceling Gravity and getting another X. But I had to compromise on the range and luxury feeling drive of Gravity. And a bunch of Model X quirks that are very well known. I also compromised on getting a 2025 instead of 2026 due to huge price increase.

It’s all compromises.
Click to expand...

Its work in progress not vaporware. Its got the hardware and function will be avaliable year.
 
Ktw13 said:
Its work in progress not vaporware. Its got the hardware and function will be avaliable year.
Click to expand...
That’s what folks said a year ago.
Only CT, Lightning and GM have the hardware in the vehicle for a usable V2L (which is what I want and Lucid does not have). V2H, if Lucid ever does release it, will cost you a fortune (it’s very ecoensive from all that offer it) and it will be all proprietary. No thx. Only way I would invest in V2H is if it becomes standardized. And Tesla is probably the closest to that (with all their power wall installation components and experience and NACS). It is essentially a Power wall installation minus just the raw battery.

Lucid should focus on perfecting the SW before spending a dime on V2H.
 
msaunders9430 said:
  1. Complain about the bath water, but not even throw it out.
  2. Explain that as much as we pay for the water, we shouldn't have to throw it out.
  3. Ask why can't someone come throw the water out for me.
  4. Consider what needs to be added to that bath water.
  5. Attack those whose baby and bath water are fine or have improved in the last few days.
Click to expand...
But I was promised the bath tub would automatically empty and then dry the baby off! They need to pay for new plumbing and fixtures! 😄
 
mswlogo said:
This is a “problem” with every car and just about anything in life.

Not just the Key but everything.

You just accept it and make compromises. My wife is a compromise. She is not perfect. But overall I could not ask for a better wife.

One thing that happens is you get used to having one feature work well on one car and expect it to work as well or better on the next. It’s very easy to obsess over it.

Focus on the things you love and joke /laugh about the things that just don’t work.

I had a model 3 that had the phone key and it worked perfect from day one. But I gave up a Grand Cherokee Summit that I loved. And CarPlay on it was awesome. I just accepted that the Tesla didn’t have it (I don’t miss car play at all any more).

But turns out I wasn’t very happy with the 3 because it wasn’t an SUV. But I loved a bunch of other things about it. Doggy mode was a huge win for us. I refuse to compromise on that now.

So I switched to an X. But I lost the Phone key (2019). I just had to accept it knowing it up front. Not stress over it. That damn FOB would trigger in my pocket too and I go out to my car see the hatch was wide open all day in the rain. Had to buy a guard for it.

Then I switched to an S (with a hatchback it’s damn close to an SUV) and I added a hitch to tow stuff. It did almost everything right (for me). Compromises were not good clearance for mud and snow. And no proper power to the trailer. But I accepted and enjoyed the car. I loved the 405 mile range. Probably supercharged 5 times in 3 years. I got the S because it was super cheap at the time to trade the X for an S. Cost me peanuts during Covid. X I had became a legacy when “refresh came out”. So I’d not see nearly as many software improvements on the legacy X (which I got VERY used to).

My most recent purchase,I seriously considered a Gravity. I had one on order. Compromises were very very high price, a lot of known bugs and software glitches that might not ever get fixed, a lot of teething pains for a new car company, no service near by. That was a lot of compromises to make. But if I did go forward I’m just have to accept it. Also FSD (HW3) meanwhile was getting crazy good. My (compromised wife) kept saying you are gonna miss FSD every time I showed her something new it did. So I’d lose FSD too. I know I’d get a nice driving car. But the S and X were absolutely acceptable driving wise. One way I was justifying Gravity price was V2L /V2H which turns out was complete vaporware (on almost every EV accept a few pickups).

So I ended up canceling Gravity and getting another X. But I had to compromise on the range and luxury feeling drive of Gravity. And a bunch of Model X quirks that are very well known. I also compromised on getting a 2025 instead of 2026 due to huge price increase.

It’s all compromises.
Click to expand...
So, you're saying your wife doesn't read this forum, eh?
 
MSH2 said:
I have had a GT for over 3 years. While I had early issues and most were around Apple Car Play, I haven’t had any after the first year. I absolutely love the car. I have two issues that affect all owners. First, it is unbelievable that they haven’t opened more show rooms. They have made a great car and have the worst marketing I have ever seen. Second, not offering an extended warranty program hurts us all. One of the reasons the resale value is so bad is their poor marketing and owner support reduces demand. It directly lowers used car values which hurts us all. Mike
Click to expand...
You express my sentiments exactly. There is little brand awareness or credibility and they must open more studios and service centers to provide credibility and presence in the marketplace. We all know the failure rate of new car companies. What gives me confidence are the engineering, design and the financial backing of the PIF. Most three year owners like me have tolerated the various faults and have enjoyed what is undeniably an exceptionally good driving experience. It remains by far the best car I have owned compared to high-end model Porsches, Audis, BMWs and MBs over the past 20 years.

FWIW, my only experience with the closest studio where I now live was completely unacceptable with a smarmy representative. Perhaps serendipitously, I became acquainted with a senior Lucid person at the Boston studio in April 2022 who solicited my experience after a 2000 mile cross country drive six months after delivery in Oct 2022. My experience with the local temporary location service center about 45 minutes away has been exceptionally good probably because I have a great tech whom I can schedule service with rather than using the faulty scheduling app that led me to speak with the northern Virginia studio.
 
I am not new to EVs though I am new to Lucid. Or at least I will be when my '23 AGT finally arrives. I've read a lot of the issues and concerns voiced in this thread, though I must concede that reading 16 pages while providing visual and moral support to the Bills as they try to close out the Wild Card game against the Jaguars wasn't meant to happen.

We've had two Chevrolet Volts (one of each generation), and currently have a '23 Tesla Model Y, and a '24 Equinox EV.I'm very familiar with GM's Ultium platform. What Lucid owners are seeing is not unique to Lucid. It is just unique in the sense that you are experiencing them with Lucid and may not be aware of issues with what's going on with the other brands. I chose to go out on a limb and make the deal on the '23 AGT because
  1. Most of the issues I saw complaints around from early owners and reviewers appear to have been resolved or at least greatly improved via software upgrades.
  2. Most reviews of '24 - '26 Air models focus more on the capability and less on the occasional quirk / malady.
  3. Even though the original owner may not have appreciated paying $140k+ for a car with some issues, I have zero qualms with riding their depreciation down and paying less than 40% sticker price for a vehicle that is arguably better today than it was on Day 1, even if there are some mitigations.
Of course, we'll see how patient I am with quirks as I receive and experience the car in real time.

Here are some of the things that get complained about on the Tesla forums:
  • Phantom braking
  • 12V battery dying inexplicably
  • Panel gaps
  • Lack of 360 camera
  • Not getting anyway near claimed range
  • FSD...some love it and will defend it 'til the bitter end. Some are very skeptical and refuse to drink the koolaid (I'm squarely planted in the second group)
Here are issues we've actually experienced with our Tesla:
  • FSD has tried to kill me. Although, in fairness I will say it was because I unwisely used it with a hitch-mounted bike carrier that apparently interfered with camera operation. Thing is, the system did not tell me that the camera views were degraded and allowed the system to pretend to work instead of locking it out.
  • Not getting anywhere near the range in most situations. I CAN achieve stated range, but I'd probably hear a lot of honking horns and/or see a lot one-finger waves.
  • Sometimes the system switches to my profile when I get in the car, sometimes it stays on my wife's profile and I have to manually switch it (she's the primary driver).
Here are some of the things that get complained about on the Equinox EV forum:
  • Charge port door says it's open when it isn't.
  • Doors unlock even when you don't want them to.
  • When Bluetooth streaming is interrupted by a phone call it will often not go back to the Bluetooth source when call ends.
  • Sometimes the vehicle ignores charge limits and charges to 90% or higher overnight when set at 80%.
  • Remote start doesn't always work, whether from the app or the key fob.
  • Proximity tailgate opening is too sensitive / not sensitive enough.
  • Infotainment screen goes braindead.
Here are my issues with Equinox EV (I'm the primary driver):
  • Remote start works everywhere EXCEPT when I'm plugged in at home. Exactly when I would most want it to work, of course.
  • Doors unlock even when I don't want them to (when I'm mowing the lawn and the keys are in my pocket). Sounds like Lucid owners would LOVE to have this problem ;)
  • When Bluetooth streaming is interrupted by a phone call it will often not go back to the Bluetooth source when call ends.
  • In very cold weather charge port door says it's open when it isn't.
  • Bad panel gap on driver's side of tailgate.
And it's not just EVs or software defined vehicles. A Camaro I've owned since 2017 has had an issue with the battery where if the vehicle goes 3 or more days without being started it would be brain-dead. I spent years putting it on a battery tender before Chevrolet eventually figured it out.
 
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