a proposal to reduce congestion at DCFC

[coma24]

Sent this to EA via LinkedIn:

Reading through hundreds of reviews on PlugShare, charger congestion at DCFC locations is a common issue, especially with people charging to 100%, some of whom presumably aren't aware of how much longer that takes, or simply don't care.

2 suggestions for alleviating congestion:
1) introduce premium pricing for portions of charging that exceed 80% SOC IF all chargers are occupied. If the place is empty, no problem, but if it's full (ie, people are likely waiting), pay the piper.

2) other incentive to stop charging during congestion. "All chargers are full and you're at 80%, here's $2 off THIS session if you disconnect in the next 60 secs..."

This way, fewer people will charge > 80%, and EA operates at higher net charging rates as a result.

Curious how others feel about it.

 

[coma24]

To clarify the reasoning....the general public can't be relied upon to do the right thing at scale. There is evidence that there isn't much in the way of consideration or courtesy for others. This system would provide financial incentive for people to do the 'right' thing. Think of suggestion #2 as a parallel to how airlines handle overbooking where they are trying to gracefully kick people off the flight. Out come the vouchers. Same thing here.

The reason WHY EA should want to do this (other than overall customer satisfaction and better perception of the utility of EV's, leading to a larger potential market for them) is the simple fact that if fewer people are charging above 80%, then they'll have more charging sessions being conducted at lower rates of charge, which equates to higher charging rates, which equates to a higher volume of product sold for EA.

Everyone wins, with shorter lines and higher customer satisfaction. It seems this is necessary given how many people elect to charge to 100% on road trips when, in many cases, I'm guessing it's not actually necessary unless they're truly doing a max-range profile, or something very close to it.

 

[BS8899]

Sent this to EA via LinkedIn:

Reading through hundreds of reviews on PlugShare, charger congestion at DCFC locations is a common issue, especially with people charging to 100%, some of whom presumably aren't aware of how much longer that takes, or simply don't care.

2 suggestions for alleviating congestion:
1) introduce premium pricing for portions of charging that exceed 80% SOC IF all chargers are occupied. If the place is empty, no problem, but if it's full (ie, people are likely waiting), pay the piper.

2) other incentive to stop charging during congestion. "All chargers are full and you're at 80%, here's $2 off THIS session if you disconnect in the next 60 secs..."

This way, fewer people will charge > 80%, and EA operates at higher net charging rates as a result.

Curious how others feel about it.

I like the general idea of encouraging people to only charge to 80%. But I not sure how [2] is different than [1]. Can you elucidate?

 

[Ughwhy]

I like your proposals in general. The only negative I see to them is that one of the common sales pitches about why charging is not that burdensome is that you can go in the store and do some shopping, go in the restaurant and have some lunch, etc. while your car charges. Having an extra premium charge added if you exceed 80% will create a new type of anxiety (in addition to range anxiety) about charging). Don't get me wrong, I still prefer your proposals vs "charging rage" incidents due to the current system.

That being said, of course the real answer is: 1) more charging stations with purpose designed layouts (i.e. drive through charging), 2) more efficient EV's that require less charging for the same distance, 3) more access to "at home" charging (particularly for people who live in situations where they don't have a garage or assigned parking spot), and 4) stricter legal support/enforcement of charging (i.e. ticketing and towing for people breaking those rules).

 

[coma24]

I like the general idea of encouraging people to only charge to 80%. But I not sure how [2] is different than [1]. Can you elucidate?

#1 is a premium per kw/h delivered.

#2 is a reduction in the total bill if they were to disconnect right now, even prior to exceeding 80% charge.

#2 could also be used dynamically, offering a discount if you're the highest-charged vehicle in the cluster at, say, 77%. If they're all full, they offer the incentive to get people to disconnect and move on, allowing others to charge, starting at much lower states of charge. It would be optional, of course. You can slowly increase the offer, $1, $2, $3 if the offer is going to multiple parties. It would make the charging interesting, that's for sure.

 

[BS8899]

#1 is a premium per kw/h delivered.

#2 is a reduction in the total bill if they were to disconnect right now, even prior to exceeding 80% charge.

#2 could also be used dynamically, offering a discount if you're the highest-charged vehicle in the cluster at, say, 77%. If they're all full, they offer the incentive to get people to disconnect and move on, allowing others to charge, starting at much lower states of charge. It would be optional, of course. You can slowly increase the offer, $1, $2, $3 if the offer is going to multiple parties. It would make the charging interesting, that's for sure.

To be effective, the customer has to disconnect AND move out of the space/slot. Otherwise, someone can set the car's charging limit to 80% and then go shopping or go to eat and still occupy the space. This happens a lot in charging stations where the chargers are located in shopping center parking lots (Walmart, Cabazon, etc.). How to enforce is another matter. Ideally, if the customer does not physically remove the car within a reasonable time (say, 2 min after getting to 80%), then a surcharge will be imposed.

 

[coma24]

I like your proposals in general. The only negative I see to them is that one of the common sales pitches about why charging is not that burdensome is that you can go in the store and do some shopping, go in the restaurant and have some lunch, etc. while your car charges. Having an extra premium charge added if you exceed 80% will create a new type of anxiety (in addition to range anxiety) about charging). Don't get me wrong, I still prefer your proposals vs "charging rage" incidents due to the current system.

That being said, of course the real answer is: 1) more charging stations with purpose designed layouts (i.e. drive through charging), 2) more efficient EV's that require less charging for the same distance, 3) more access to "at home" charging (particularly for people who live in situations where they don't have a garage or assigned parking spot), and 4) stricter legal support/enforcement of charging (i.e. ticketing and towing for people breaking those rules).

Good points! I hear you.

Level 2 charging is more suited for those "park and leave it" cases, and tend to generate less tension. Tying up a 'precious' DCFC is just bad form. I think I'm picturing the desolate EA locations where there isn't actually too much to do nearby.

The system could be packaged in a more user-friendly fashion, and less punitive. For example, instead of a premium rate above 80%, the charger would do an in-place discount, for charging to 80% or less at over-subscribed locations. "'Courteous Charger' discount unlocked, thank you for freeing up the charger for others!"

There's many ways to skin this cat and package the experience. It would be on the charging companies to find the best way to achieve the end result.

 

[coma24]

To be effective, the customer has to disconnect AND move out of the space/slot. Otherwise, someone can set the car's charging limit to 80% and then go shopping or go to eat and still occupy the space. This happens a lot in charging stations where the chargers are located in shopping center parking lots (Walmart, Cabazon, etc.). How to enforce is another matter. Ideally, if the customer does not physically remove the car within a reasonable time (say, 2 min after getting to 80%), then a surcharge will be imposed.

Also a great point. That can be mitigated by having two physical spaces and two charging outlets per unit (with only one enabled at a time). This way, if you have someone idling, you don't get into the sticky situation of someone other than the owner pulling out the cable, and you still allow the 'next' person to use the charger...unless you end up with two bozos doing the same thing, obviously.

 

[hydbob]

I'll be honest, even though I follow the etiquette of charging, none of the financial incentives would make me move out and leave. The penalty for charging above your set limit should be punitive, like $2/min past a 3 min idle period. Punishment works better in this case IMO.

 

[BS8899]

I'll be honest, even though I follow the etiquette of charging, none of the financial incentives would make me move out and leave. The penalty for charging above your set limit should be punitive, like $2/min past a 3 min idle period. Punishment works better in this case IMO.

And a flashing red light at your charging stall after 80%

 

[hydbob]

And a flashing red light at your charging stall after 80%

Correct. Shame is a great motivator to not be a douchebag.

 

[Buffalo Bob]

It's an unfortunate statement on how the selfish side of human nature often shows through these days, which leads me to agree with @hydbob that punitive fines would likely be more effective than financial incentives. I was waiting for an opening at a Target EA station recently, and three of the four spaces were taken by cars set to charge to 100%, and all were in the very high 90's and charging at less than ten kWh. As people returned, they pretty clearly could not have cared less about tying up the space, and I suspect that they knew that setting their limit to 100% pretty much ensured that the car would be technically 'charging' no matter how long they were gone. Pretty sad.

One thing I like about Lucid's lighting is that it at least sometimes shows from both the front and back that the car is being actively charged, but I've never figured out what it takes to have that remain turned on. It would be nice of all cars had that feature, but that the rate had to be at least around 10% of the station's rated output.

 

[hydbob]

It's an unfortunate statement on how the selfish side of human nature often shows through these days, which leads me to agree with @hydbob that punitive fines would likely be more effective than financial incentives. I was waiting for an opening at a Target EA station recently, and three of the four spaces were taken by cars set to charge to 100%, and all were in the very high 90's and charging at less than ten kWh. As people returned, they pretty clearly could not have cared less about tying up the space, and I suspect that they knew that setting their limit to 100% pretty much ensured that the car would be technically 'charging' no matter how long they were gone. Pretty sad.

One thing I like about Lucid's lighting is that it at least sometimes shows from both the front and back that the car is being actively charged, but I've never figured out what it takes to have that remain turned on. It would be nice of all cars had that feature, but that the rate had to be at least around 10% of the station's rated output.

It turns on after unlocking for a few minutes and will turn off after locking after a few minutes

 

[Tâm]

Sent this to EA via LinkedIn:

Reading through hundreds of reviews on PlugShare, charger congestion at DCFC locations is a common issue, especially with people charging to 100%, some of whom presumably aren't aware of how much longer that takes, or simply don't care.

2 suggestions for alleviating congestion:
1) introduce premium pricing for portions of charging that exceed 80% SOC IF all chargers are occupied. If the place is empty, no problem, but if it's full (ie, people are likely waiting), pay the piper.

2) other incentive to stop charging during congestion. "All chargers are full and you're at 80%, here's $2 off THIS session if you disconnect in the next 60 secs..."

This way, fewer people will charge > 80%, and EA operates at higher net charging rates as a result.

Curious how others feel about it.

I think the best strategy is to size up the numbers of chargers to keep up with demands.

 

[Lucken]

I'll be honest, even though I follow the etiquette of charging, none of the financial incentives would make me move out and leave. The penalty for charging above your set limit should be punitive, like $2/min past a 3 min idle period. Punishment works better in this case IMO.

Public flogging would work.

 

[Buffalo Bob]

One thing I like about Lucid's lighting is that it at least sometimes shows from both the front and back that the car is being actively charged, but I've never figured out what it takes to have that remain turned on. It would be nice of all cars had that feature, but that the rate had to be at least around 10% of the station's rated output.

hydbob said:

It turns on after unlocking for a few minutes and will turn off after locking after a few minutes

Strange that it set up to only be turned on that way, as it pretty much defeats the purpose. I wish it was on whenever the car was locked and actively charging.

 

[Leftlane]

Tesla does this - there are congestion fees and idle fees. These aren’t assessed if the SCs are wide open, but when they are more crowded, the charge limit is 80% and then fees per minute start being charged if you don’t get out of the way.

 

[BS8899]

Electrify America to build charging stations we've been dreaming of

Electrify America plans to build electric vehicle charging stations worthy of our time, with updated chargers, solar awnings, lounges, valet and pull-through spots for trailers.

www.autoblog.com

 

[DeaneG]

Electrify America to build charging stations we've been dreaming of

Electrify America plans to build electric vehicle charging stations worthy of our time, with updated chargers, solar awnings, lounges, valet and pull-through spots for trailers.

www.autoblog.com

Note that this is a two-year-old article!

 

[BS8899]

Note that this is a two-year-old article!

So, is EA actually implementing such a policy?