Upgrades and the Monroney Label

[Haggy]

Mine was wrong because I got different wheels. More importantly, the label on the door that lists the correct inflation is wrong. Somebody from Lucid told me that the car never would have made it out of the factory, had they done the wheel swap there, without changing that label. The real life ramifications are that it tells me that the pressure should be lower than it's supposed to be, and slightly above the threshold that triggers a low pressure warning. I've found that whenever a service person says that he'll make a note of something, I never hear back, so I really should contact somebody to get this corrected.

As for the wrong, label, I can live with that. Tesla sold me a car with no Monroney sticker at all. I mentioned it but they never got back to me. That was in 2017 so I suppose that it will be hard to find a lawyer to take my case.

 

[borski]

The real life ramifications are that it tells me that the pressure should be lower than it's supposed to be, and slightly above the threshold that triggers a low pressure warning.

To be fair, it also lists the wheel size, right? The pressures are dependent upon the size on the label; if that size is wrong, the pressures will be too.

 

[Haggy]

To be fair, it also lists the wheel size, right? The pressures are dependent upon the size on the label; if that size is wrong, the pressures will be too.

It does, but when people check the label, they are going to look at the recommended pressure, not check to see if the listed wheel size matches what's on the car. If Lucid had put a label listing the recommended pressures for each wheel size, that wouldn't be an issue because people would check their wheels to see what size for cross reference. Presumably, they don't do that because that's not what the law says, and I should have the proper label because that's what the law says. Also, I'm sure that many people have no idea that the tire pressure would be different for different wheel sizes, and that anybody would have changed the sizes of the wheels, especially if they bought the car new and have the same wheels that the car came with. People who buy used cars, where the only realistic option is to buy a car and get whatever wheels are on it, wouldn't think of checking to see whether the label has the correct wheel size either.

 

[borski]

It does, but when people check the label, they are going to look at the recommended pressure, not check to see if the listed wheel size matches what's on the car. If Lucid had put a label listing the recommended pressures for each wheel size, that wouldn't be an issue because people would check their wheels to see what size for cross reference. Presumably, they don't do that because that's not what the law says, and I should have the proper label because that's what the law says. Also, I'm sure that many people have no idea that the tire pressure would be different for different wheel sizes, and that anybody would have changed the sizes of the wheels, especially if they bought the car new and have the same wheels that the car came with. People who buy used cars, where the only realistic option is to buy a car and get whatever wheels are on it, wouldn't think of checking to see whether the label has the correct wheel size either.

Sure, but this is a problem for *all* used cars. I have never seen more than one size listed on that label in any vehicle.

 

[Haggy]

Sure, but this is a problem for *all* used cars. I have never seen more than one size listed on that label in any vehicle.

It's not a problem for all used cars. It's a problem for the relatively few that don't have whatever sized wheels came with the cars when new. In this case, Lucid sold me a car with the wrong label. I know about the proper pressure, many of the forum participants would know, but only a small percentage of Lucid owners show up here.

Perhaps shops that sell aftermarket wheels should be required to give buyers a label showing the correct pressures, but it's a moot point with respect to new cars where there's already a law in place. It's not as if I'm asking Lucid for a free car. I'm saying that I should have an accurate label. They probably have thousands of them somewhere.

 

[Steveinarizona]

I am struggling to understand the legal implications of this matter of charging for DD Pro and SS Pro after purchase. The Monroney Label is the definitive legal document from the manufacturer that states the standard equipment and optional equipment that is on a specific vehicle as identified by the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN), plus the MSRP of the base price and for each option. This has been required since I think 1958 to ensure full disclosure to protect both consumers and dealers. The Monroney Label is secifically separate from any aftermarket equipment the dealer adds to the vehicle.

The Monroney Label on my vehicle, Lucid Air Touring (delivery March 8, 2023), states the optional equipment includes Dream Drive Pro (MSRP $10,000) which includes Highway Assist and other items, and Surreal Sound Pro (MSRP $4,000). The transactioin price buyer (me) and seller (Lucid) agreed included a 100% discount for those two options. But nevertheless, we did agree on a ntransaction price to accomplish the sale of the vehicle. The Monroney Label declares those options are part of the manufacturer's content on the vehicle that I purchased and own.

Note that I did not order the car with either DDP or SSP. It just appeared on the car that I was sold.

The manufacturer would have to argue that the hardware indeed was sold to me but the software to run it was not. So the upgrade cost is for the software not the hardware.

This argument is problematic. The Monroney Label does not specify if the DD Pro and SS Pro includes just hardware or hardware and software. It states that DD Pro includes Highway Assist, which is a function that requires both hardware and software. So my conclusion is the Monroney Label states both the hardware and the software were sold to me for those optional items on my vehicle.

That hardware versus software argument also appears disingenuous because the total MSRP for each of the options including hardware and software is essentially the same price being chraged for the software only upgrade. It would seem to not make sense from a practical standpoint and counter to the full disclosure of the Monroney Label.

Lucid sold me a car that has equipment on it they sold to me at a discount. Now they want to charge me to allow me to use it. I'm guessing there is fine print about software upgrades but that needs to square with automotive industry regulations. I think the lawyers will have to figure this out.

What did the sales documents show? If they show you bought the features and were provided them at no cost (i.e., 100% discount), then you have a good argument. But if the 100% "discount" was to ensure that you were not paying for features you didn't want, and the sales documents show that, then you don't have much of an argument.

Aside from legality...what did you think you were purchasing? Did you think that you were getting the two features for a negotiated no cost or did you think you were just making sure that you weren't charged for it. The sales documents control and should make the answer clear. If it was the latter, and you are now trying to get free DD Pro and SS Pro, remember the old adage: pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered.

It seems to me that the Monroney sticker is irrelevant. Did you buy the features that are listed as an option or did you not buy them. Either way the Monroney sticker is not wrong. The two features were options. Whether you activated them or not is a matter of the sales documents, not the sticker.

 

[Haggy]

What did the sales documents show? If they show you bought the features and were provided them at no cost (i.e., 100% discount), then you have a good argument. But if the 100% "discount" was to ensure that you were not paying for features you didn't want, and the sales documents show that, then you don't have much of an argument.

Aside from legality...what did you think you were purchasing? Did you think that you were getting the two features for a negotiated no cost or did you think you were just making sure that you weren't charged for it. The sales documents control and should make the answer clear. If it was the latter, and you are now trying to get free DD Pro and SS Pro, remember the old adage: pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered.

It seems to me that the Monroney sticker is irrelevant. Did you buy the features that are listed as an option or did you not buy them. Either way the Monroney sticker is not wrong. The two features were options. Whether you activated them or not is a matter of the sales documents, not the sticker.

I agree. Ultimately, what counts is the sales documents. If the car came with the promised features, there may or may not be an argument to be made that the Monroney sticker is wrong, and it might be possible to force Lucid to print out a new one, but why?