Today's Car News

[hmp10]

The Honda-Nissan merger has hit a snag, possibly killing the deal.

And Tesla sales in Europe, already shrinking throughout last year, are in free fall so far this year:

Germany: down 59%
France: down 63%
Norway: down 44%
Sweden: down 38%
Netherlands: down 42%
UK: down 12% (with overall BEV sales up 35% -- Tesla went from being the No. 1 BEV seller in the UK to 7th position)

It's now being called the "Swasticar" on social media, and a new logo is making the rounds:

Yet Tesla's captive Board is still appealing the Chancery Court ruling rejecting Musk's $56 billion bonus payment even as the man works assiduously to destroy the brand's goodwill.

 

[DeaneG]

...Tesla sales in Europe, already shrinking throughout last year, are in free fall so far this year:...

I saw that. It's unfortunate for Tesla employees. But I'm relieved that people are paying attention.

 

[jbawden]

I understand some people disagree with his politics and its unfathomable to have such a polarizing figure at the helm, but if you believe in EV's as a solution then cheerleading plummeting Tesla sales as nothing but a political FU to Elon is interesting. I think some of the reduction could be protest votes, but it surely reflects more deeply on EV adoption rates as they emerge beyond the proverbial "fanbois". You may not like Elon as a human and even if Tesla isn't the best option, its still the "face" of EV's. A failure of Tesla gives the the dubious-on-EV crowd plenty of fodder to consider the entire segment a failure.

 

[borski]

I understand some people disagree with his politics and its unfathomable to have such a polarizing figure at the helm, but if you believe in EV's as a solution then cheerleading plummeting Tesla sales as nothing but a political FU to Elon is interesting. I think some of the reduction could be protest votes, but it surely reflects more deeply on EV adoption rates as they emerge beyond the proverbial "fanbois". You may not like Elon as a human and even if Tesla isn't the best option, its still the "face" of EV's. A failure of Tesla gives the the dubious-on-EV crowd plenty of fodder to consider the entire segment a failure.

Overall EV sales are actually up in almost all locales. In the UK, for example, BEV sales are up 35%. Tesla sales are down 12%.

It’s only Tesla sales that are down, not EVs.

I also don’t think it’s entirely political. There are simply better EVs out there now; Tesla’s latest, the Cybertruck, is divisive and not selling very well, and their older vehicles have been surpassed by other manufacturers.

So some of it is certainly political, but a big piece of it is likely also that Elon hasn’t paid a lick of attention to Tesla in years outside of it being his personal slush fund, and they haven’t produced any innovative vehicles in about as long.

Tesla is now calling the Cybertruck a “testbed” for new tech for future vehicles, as if they never really intended it to be purchased in large numbers (which is not true), and so on.

I am certain if Tesla produced a new vehicle that once again led the pack, people would buy it. Some would stay away for political reasons, certainly, but they wouldn’t be as screwed as they are today.

It’s the one-two combo punch of:
1) an absent CEO who has alienated roughly the entire rest of the world, about half the USA, and has been extremely public about his divisive views, and;
2) no significant innovation in vehicles anyone actually wants to buy.

Just my $.02

 

[hmp10]

2) no significant innovation in vehicles anyone actually wants to buy.

To me, the interesting question is what has years of increasingly erratic and bullying behavior done to the Tesla organization. Are people willing or able to push innovation up from within the ranks? Do people work under a cloud of fear of crossing the boss? Will the best engineering and design minds consider joining the company?

As I listened to Kyle Conner and Jason Cammisa discuss how, every time they show up at Lucid, employees from the engineering ranks right up through the executive ranks walk up to them and others in the press to discuss what they saw in reviews, to probe for new ideas and observations, to explain why they did or didn't do something seasoned car reviewers brought up. This is a sign of a very healthy organization of people enthused about their jobs and their products.

Can you imagine anyone at Tesla being comfortable doing such a thing?

 

[hmp10]

. . . if you believe in EV's as a solution then cheerleading plummeting Tesla sales as nothing but a political FU to Elon is interesting.

Musk used to claim that his mission at Tesla was to foster electric propulsion for environmental reasons and to support the spreading of that technology across the industry. Do you seriously believe that is his mission with Tesla today (if it ever was, given how much of Tesla profits derived from carbon credits)? What he now talks about is the imperative for population growth (at least for certain groups). And, with his growing influence in Trumpworld, when have you heard any pushback from him on the climate denialism and push for fossil fuel expansion that has a chokehold on national politics?

Musk has spent untold verbiage trashing Rivian and Lucid as not having viable business models, of predicting their imminent demise, of lying about Peter Rawlinson's role at Tesla. In short, as he has gained influence he has used it not to foster the spread of EVs but to monopolize it insofar as he can. At this point, Tesla and the ability it gives Musk to insert himself into national governance is a net negative for the advancement of EVs.

 

[Blue Lectroid]

To me, the interesting question is what has years of increasingly erratic and bullying behavior done to the Tesla organization. Are people willing or able to push innovation up from within the ranks? Do people work under a cloud of fear of crossing the boss? Will the best engineering and design minds consider joining the company?

As I listened to Kyle Conner and Jason Cammisa discuss how, every time they show up at Lucid, employees from the engineering ranks right up through the executive ranks walk up to them and others in the press to discuss what they saw in reviews, to probe for new ideas and observations, to explain why they did or didn't do something seasoned car reviewers brought up. This is a sign of a very healthy organization of people enthused about their jobs and their products.

Can you imagine anyone at Tesla being comfortable doing such a thing?

That is a great point. Personalities like Musk have an incredibly powerful effect on organizations. If you know the "boss" is going micromanage and second guess everything you do, why bother? Of course the probably reality given what is on the man's plate is that he is not spending much time at all on Tesla...

 

[Blue Lectroid]

Musk used to claim that his mission at Tesla was to foster electric propulsion for environmental reasons and to support the spreading of that technology across the industry. Do you seriously believe that is his mission with Tesla today (if it ever was, given how much of Tesla profits derived from carbon credits)? What he now talks about is the imperative for population growth (at least for certain groups). And, with his growing influence in Trumpworld, when have you heard any pushback from him on the climate denialism and push for fossil fuel expansion that has a chokehold on national politics?

Musk has spent untold verbiage trashing Rivian and Lucid as not having viable business models, of predicting their imminent demise, of lying about Peter Rawlinson's role at Tesla. In short, as he has gained influence he has used it not to foster the spread of EVs but to monopolize it insofar as he can. At this point, Tesla and the ability it gives Musk to insert himself into national governance is a net negative for the advancement of EVs.

Musk has always been a monopolist. And there is no longer any real way to stop that other than through market forces. Think about the $7500 tax credit. That is completely within Musk's ability to make disappear and, given that the ONLY EV maker currently with meaningful scale is Tesla (and which could thereby be hurt less by losing the subsidy), that is a very powerful monopolistic lever he has at his disposal.

 

[Steveinarizona]

I understand some people disagree with his politics and its unfathomable to have such a polarizing figure at the helm, but if you believe in EV's as a solution then cheerleading plummeting Tesla sales as nothing but a political FU to Elon is interesting. I think some of the reduction could be protest votes, but it surely reflects more deeply on EV adoption rates as they emerge beyond the proverbial "fanbois". You may not like Elon as a human and even if Tesla isn't the best option, its still the "face" of EV's. A failure of Tesla gives the the dubious-on-EV crowd plenty of fodder to consider the entire segment a failure.

Or it is a reflection of the company policy that you take it or leave it? I will not drive a car where everything is done and displayed on an info screen to the right of the driver. If Tesla really wanted minimalism, not just cheapism, it would have at least offered an option to purchase a HUD. It worked for Tesla when it had no competition. Now there are Genesis GV60s and 70s, Lucid Airs and soon Gravity, BMW I4, I5 and I7 not to mention the unmentionable IX (as ugly as it is wonderful to drive). Ford Mach-Es, Polestar, Rivian, etc.

Companies come and go. Xerox invented the copier and look at the company now. The copier market didn't die when Xerox started to fade. Instead it faded because it had competition that turned out to be better. That is what is happening with EVs. The S and X are old technology. The 3 and Y force you to look sideways and use the info screen to make driving and seating adjustments. Tesla lived in a bubble by itself; now that it has competition a failure of Tesla does not signal the end of EVs any more than the failure of Xerox killed the use of copiers.

Tesla is no longer on the front lines of EV development. The Chinese have taken that role over and if this country doesn't understand that it has to get in front of the line, the US will end up with a manufactured fleet of unsellable ICE cars while the Chinese run away with the market.

Just my rant.

 

[Lucken]

Good grief, here we go again. It’s sad to see more threads becoming cesspools for the same political droning we get enough of elsewhere.

It’s funny that some would rather see Tesla fail so as to ‘get even’ with Musk, than have more people buy EVs and ditch ICE vehicles. I firmly believe @borski was the closest to correct regarding Tesla sales, there are simply better alternatives to EVs than Teslas. Period. Full stop. Are there some that won’t buy because of utter nonsense like the ‘Nazi salute’, sure, some are still naive and hatred can be a powerful motivation.

 

[hmp10]

Are there some that won’t buy because of utter nonsense like the ‘Nazi salute’, sure, some are still naive and hatred can be a powerful motivation.

As for being naive, you might want to read up on how dog whistles work: send clear signals of support to the like-minded while being just enough off from the original to deny the real intent. Do you think consternation at Musk's outspoken support of the German neo-Nazi ADF party -- expressed clearly in his own words -- is also the result of naivety?

And yes, hatred can be a powerful motivation. That's why so many people, especially in Europe, take the "Sieg, heil!" allusion so seriously. It was and remains the quintessence of hatred.

I did my graduate work at the Free University of Berlin in 19th- and 20th-century German history. You may be taken in by Musk's tactics and/or are desperate to dismiss them, but they have a very familiar ring to me.

 

[hmp10]

I firmly believe @borski was the closest to correct regarding Tesla sales, there are simply better alternatives to EVs than Teslas. Period. Full stop.

You don't get the kind of sudden, precipitous drop in sales figures Tesla is seeing in Europe just because the competition is starting to move ahead. That is a slower process unless something has become obsolete. Teslas might be losing their edge, but they're far from obsolete.

 

[stratus]

Good grief, here we go again. It’s sad to see more threads becoming cesspools for the same political droning we get enough of elsewhere.

It’s funny that some would rather see Tesla fail so as to ‘get even’ with Musk, than have more people buy EVs and ditch ICE vehicles. I firmly believe @borski was the closest to correct regarding Tesla sales, there are simply better alternatives to EVs than Teslas. Period. Full stop. Are there some that won’t buy because of utter nonsense like the ‘Nazi salute’, sure, some are still naive and hatred can be a powerful motivation.

The ‘Nazi Salute’ that wasn’t ( big debate about this ) is not even in the top 100 reasons I wouldn’t associate myself with a product from Tesla at this point. When an individual constantly provokes, demeans , and treats people like absolute rubbish, other individuals can use the power of the pocketbook to protest that behavior. That is not naivety, it’s reasonable activism.

 

[Lucken]

Musk is a very physically awkward individual. His body movements are jerky and his motions sudden and odd. As a Jew I am particularly sensitive to antisemitism, whether it’s overt or subtle. So please, don’t preach to me about anti-semitism. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has defended Musk, calling him a friend of the Jewish people and dismissing this kind of criticism. He claimed Musk has been "falsely smeared." I put more weight in that alone than some of the nonsensical things I read. Let’s be honest, as soon as Musk espoused a few conservative ideas, he went from hero to villain in an instant among the left. Aligning with Trump was the end in their eyes.

Anti-semitism is one of the reasons I was disgusted with the Democratic Party, which is the home of several antisemites IMO. The party couldn’t even issue a statement condemning antisemitism without making the statement a ‘catch all’ for all forms of hatred. Politicians like Chuck Schumer should be ashamed of themselves. It’s just one of the reasons many Jews, including several friends of mine, switched lifelong voting behaviors in this past election.

As for Germany, I wish there was more being done to address the neo-Nazis. When we were on a river cruise a few years ago, one of our stops was in Germany. Our German tour guide said he was ashamed to admit that antisemitism was still flourishing in Germany and he wished the government was doing more about it.