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Third Midsize model Speculation
- Thread starter JB67
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My guess: The driver-oriented CUV will likely just be a smaller gravity (shorter in both length and height). The rugged crossover will likely be pretty similar, just with some bolted on bits and various changes to make it more "rugged". The third will likely be a more traditional SUV shape (taller/less aerodynamic).
On that vein, I had a thought:
Do you think it might be an E-Rev? Sort of along the same lines as the Scout models coming in the future?
That would be interesting, but doesn't feel like something Lucid would do given it's all about having the most advanced tech.
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Long time lurker here. Just sharing some of my speculation on the Midsize project based on what we've seen so far and based on what I've observed from other vehicles. Again, I'd like to make it clear that all of these are what I've been speculating, and I can easily be wrong.
So, immediately we can see that it's a hatchback, but I'd like to throw my hat into the ring and speculate on other details such as dimensions and other spec.
Size & Dimensions
GIven what we've seen from both the Lucid Air and of the Gravity (exterior of a midsize, interior of a fullsize), I suspect that midsize will be more or less the size of a compact vehicle externally (e.g. BMW 3 series, Hyundai Elantra), while maintaining the interior volume of a midsize vehicle (e.g. Mercedes E-Class). Overall, I do think it will have a profile very similar to a Gravity on its lowest ride height (Photo below).
One thing that got me thinking a lot was with respect to ground clearance. My observations from other vehicles (based on what I can find) are as follows:
- Lucid Air Pure: 4.9" (Based on published technical specifications from the Lucid website)
- Lucid Gravity: 5.2" (On its lowest setting)
- Hyundai Ioniq 6: 5.6"
- Hyundai Ioniq 5: 6.1"
- Porsche Panamera: 5.2"
- Porsche Taycan: 5"
- Honda Accord: 5.3"
- Porsche 911: 4.7"
With these observations, I'm speculating that the ground clearance might be ~5.2". This will ensure that Midsize can maintain a lower aerodynamic profile on the road. In the meantime, this will eliminate the need for a front lift module to clear road bumps and potholes (e.g., the Porsche 911). The Lucid Air was noted to bottom out on some inclines, based on what I've seen on this forum. Not needing a front lift module will also ensure costs remain low from both a manufacturing and a parts perspective.
Another reason why I think it'll have this low a ride height is due to ingress and egress for a wider consumer appeal. For example, take the Lucid Gravity on its lowest setting:
source: TFLEV
With the lower ride height, Lucid can ensure the battery pack remains low and still ensure there is a wide enough height for ease of ingress and egress. From what I've observed, I think the appeal of crossovers come from the ingress and egress for both passengers and drivers. Let's take an exagerated case with the Rivian Delivery Van:
Source: Munro Live
As we can see, the knee being lower than the hip joint allows for easier ingress and egress. And this is where I think we can see the connection to the Midsize crossover. By having the knee joint lower to the ground and lower than the hip joint, it becomes easier for passengers to enter and exit the vehicle. This will appeal not just to older buyers but also to family-oriented buyers who want ease of access to securing a baby seat. In addition, the Gravity was noted to be at the ideal height for loading cargo, where the bottom lip of the rear boot is at knee height (source: The Carmudgeon Show). From human factors perspective, this will allow the user to load cargo without needing to lift with their arms. For Midsize, with the more crossover-like appeal, I suspect we can see a similar loading height and ingress/egress design.
Motors
Based on Lucid's technology and manufacturing day presentation, they have shown that Atlas will be going to Midsize. I'm think we can all agree that Lucid will be having a RWD option to lower material and manufacturing costs to hit their targeted price tag. Given their product history, I think we can all also suspect an AWD version to be done as well. I also speculate that they might have a tri-motor version of the Atlas unit. This will highlight the performance that they can achieve with it to further showcase Atlas for other OEMs, especially those targeting to create a hothatch kind of vehicle. If a tri-motor version does not debut on Midsize, then perhaps it might debut on another Midsize-cousin that could be more targeted for off-road purposes.
Wheels, chassis, and interior
I could not find information based on the wheels and chassis. So, I'm throwing out a wild guess for this one. I think the Midsize could start with 18" wheels and go up from there. I based this assumption off the Ioniq 6, which starts with 18" wheels. I do not think a staggered wheel setup will come to Midsize. This is because it will require extra tooling and stock-keeping to maintain the staggered wheel sizes. Without a staggered setup, this would decrease tooling cost and thus be easier to produce at scale. In addition, it'd be easier to order tyres at scale.
In terms of the chassis and interior, I am assuming that they have achieved their desired efficiency goals. I think Midsize will have the same footwell setup like what we've seen in the Air Pure and Air Touring, and I speculate that it will only be that option. By maintaining only one overall interior shape, this will reduce manufacturing complexity and tooling costs, further helping them to achieve their desired price. In addition, having only one footwell shape can help with better scalability since it'll be easier for design-for-assembly considerations. This speculation is also made based on the assumptions I've made on batteries (see below).
In terms of suspension, I think we can all agree that the Midsize is likely to have standard springs for suspension. Adding air suspension will add further complexity costs and design-for-manufacturing considerations. I do think it will include adaptive dampers. For reference, the Toyota Crown starts at ~$41k USD MSRP and can go as high as ~$55k USD, and it does have the option for adaptive suspension.
Battery systems
I could not find information that has been published on the batteries. However, I have previously noted some interesting job posting in the Lucid career opportunities page. In particular, I noted a specialist role for LFPs within their career sections. However, this posting is no longer listed on their career page as of writing. I can only assume they have long hired a candidate to fulfill this role. Under the assumption that Lucid achieves their efficiency goals, I think the Midsize could be offered with different battery chemistries. I.e, LFP and a more energy dense chemistry. They could end up using the same battery module shape to reduce tooling costs and manufacturing complexity. Perhaps it could be possible that both the LFP and higher-density chemistry would use the same cell shape so they can use the same stamped cooling plate setup for both, further increasing scalability and reducing manufacturing complexity.
I think we can also safely assume that a heat pump will be included as standard, given that it is now offered in the Air and Gravity. Even the Ioniq 5 offers a heat pump.
Closing remarks
Again, I'm not an engineer in Lucid. I'm just someone who's taking a wild guess based on what I've seen so far. I've also had some previous experience from working at a manufacturing R&D role and from my engineering undergrad. As far as I'm concerened, I could be completely wrong, and I'm alright with that.
So, any thoughts? I'm interested to see what everyone else thinks the Midsize could potentially be like.
So, immediately we can see that it's a hatchback, but I'd like to throw my hat into the ring and speculate on other details such as dimensions and other spec.
Size & Dimensions
GIven what we've seen from both the Lucid Air and of the Gravity (exterior of a midsize, interior of a fullsize), I suspect that midsize will be more or less the size of a compact vehicle externally (e.g. BMW 3 series, Hyundai Elantra), while maintaining the interior volume of a midsize vehicle (e.g. Mercedes E-Class). Overall, I do think it will have a profile very similar to a Gravity on its lowest ride height (Photo below).
One thing that got me thinking a lot was with respect to ground clearance. My observations from other vehicles (based on what I can find) are as follows:
- Lucid Air Pure: 4.9" (Based on published technical specifications from the Lucid website)
- Lucid Gravity: 5.2" (On its lowest setting)
- Hyundai Ioniq 6: 5.6"
- Hyundai Ioniq 5: 6.1"
- Porsche Panamera: 5.2"
- Porsche Taycan: 5"
- Honda Accord: 5.3"
- Porsche 911: 4.7"
With these observations, I'm speculating that the ground clearance might be ~5.2". This will ensure that Midsize can maintain a lower aerodynamic profile on the road. In the meantime, this will eliminate the need for a front lift module to clear road bumps and potholes (e.g., the Porsche 911). The Lucid Air was noted to bottom out on some inclines, based on what I've seen on this forum. Not needing a front lift module will also ensure costs remain low from both a manufacturing and a parts perspective.
Another reason why I think it'll have this low a ride height is due to ingress and egress for a wider consumer appeal. For example, take the Lucid Gravity on its lowest setting:
source: TFLEV
With the lower ride height, Lucid can ensure the battery pack remains low and still ensure there is a wide enough height for ease of ingress and egress. From what I've observed, I think the appeal of crossovers come from the ingress and egress for both passengers and drivers. Let's take an exagerated case with the Rivian Delivery Van:
Source: Munro Live
As we can see, the knee being lower than the hip joint allows for easier ingress and egress. And this is where I think we can see the connection to the Midsize crossover. By having the knee joint lower to the ground and lower than the hip joint, it becomes easier for passengers to enter and exit the vehicle. This will appeal not just to older buyers but also to family-oriented buyers who want ease of access to securing a baby seat. In addition, the Gravity was noted to be at the ideal height for loading cargo, where the bottom lip of the rear boot is at knee height (source: The Carmudgeon Show). From human factors perspective, this will allow the user to load cargo without needing to lift with their arms. For Midsize, with the more crossover-like appeal, I suspect we can see a similar loading height and ingress/egress design.
Motors
Based on Lucid's technology and manufacturing day presentation, they have shown that Atlas will be going to Midsize. I'm think we can all agree that Lucid will be having a RWD option to lower material and manufacturing costs to hit their targeted price tag. Given their product history, I think we can all also suspect an AWD version to be done as well. I also speculate that they might have a tri-motor version of the Atlas unit. This will highlight the performance that they can achieve with it to further showcase Atlas for other OEMs, especially those targeting to create a hothatch kind of vehicle. If a tri-motor version does not debut on Midsize, then perhaps it might debut on another Midsize-cousin that could be more targeted for off-road purposes.
Wheels, chassis, and interior
I could not find information based on the wheels and chassis. So, I'm throwing out a wild guess for this one. I think the Midsize could start with 18" wheels and go up from there. I based this assumption off the Ioniq 6, which starts with 18" wheels. I do not think a staggered wheel setup will come to Midsize. This is because it will require extra tooling and stock-keeping to maintain the staggered wheel sizes. Without a staggered setup, this would decrease tooling cost and thus be easier to produce at scale. In addition, it'd be easier to order tyres at scale.
In terms of the chassis and interior, I am assuming that they have achieved their desired efficiency goals. I think Midsize will have the same footwell setup like what we've seen in the Air Pure and Air Touring, and I speculate that it will only be that option. By maintaining only one overall interior shape, this will reduce manufacturing complexity and tooling costs, further helping them to achieve their desired price. In addition, having only one footwell shape can help with better scalability since it'll be easier for design-for-assembly considerations. This speculation is also made based on the assumptions I've made on batteries (see below).
In terms of suspension, I think we can all agree that the Midsize is likely to have standard springs for suspension. Adding air suspension will add further complexity costs and design-for-manufacturing considerations. I do think it will include adaptive dampers. For reference, the Toyota Crown starts at ~$41k USD MSRP and can go as high as ~$55k USD, and it does have the option for adaptive suspension.
Battery systems
I could not find information that has been published on the batteries. However, I have previously noted some interesting job posting in the Lucid career opportunities page. In particular, I noted a specialist role for LFPs within their career sections. However, this posting is no longer listed on their career page as of writing. I can only assume they have long hired a candidate to fulfill this role. Under the assumption that Lucid achieves their efficiency goals, I think the Midsize could be offered with different battery chemistries. I.e, LFP and a more energy dense chemistry. They could end up using the same battery module shape to reduce tooling costs and manufacturing complexity. Perhaps it could be possible that both the LFP and higher-density chemistry would use the same cell shape so they can use the same stamped cooling plate setup for both, further increasing scalability and reducing manufacturing complexity.
I think we can also safely assume that a heat pump will be included as standard, given that it is now offered in the Air and Gravity. Even the Ioniq 5 offers a heat pump.
Closing remarks
Again, I'm not an engineer in Lucid. I'm just someone who's taking a wild guess based on what I've seen so far. I've also had some previous experience from working at a manufacturing R&D role and from my engineering undergrad. As far as I'm concerened, I could be completely wrong, and I'm alright with that.
So, any thoughts? I'm interested to see what everyone else thinks the Midsize could potentially be like.
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The neaue klasse sedan that BMW shows on its web site is finally good looking (the SUV on the other hand looks awful). So the new sedan could be a possible choice for me as well. Come on Lucid: how hard can it be to offer some optional upgrades on the new midsized model and power as well. My view is that a 10/1 ratio of weight to horsepower is an excellent setting for me.
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Glad to see someone else would prefer a smaller car from Lucid that has all the amenities and power of the Air. 10/1 is probably fine, though 8/1 is more my cup of tea. If the new smaller car from Lucid does not have the power, handling, luxury etc from the Air, then I would consider buying another Air only if it offers real wheel steering. If not, then the neue klasse sedan is on my radar. Hope you can do either option Lucid listed above. Here's hoping.
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I’m 100% onboard with a smaller version of the Air that has the same luxury quotient. Otherwise, like you, I’ll give the Neue Klasse a close look.
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I hope Lucid is listening and does not cheap out a smaller version of the Air. Like Porsche they can offer a lower cost trim and a higher cost trim that incorporates all the luxury, handling, acceleration etc to what an Air GT or Air Touring offers. We can only hope.
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