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The Changing EV Climate in the U.S.

thyname said:
Assuming you were referring to removing the $7,500 federal tax rebate, I agree it caused a lot of resentment from many people, typically those who would not even consider an EV purchase in the first place (for political reasons mostly, but also for other reasons). Now that is gone, that “argument “ no longer applies and the “playing field is level”. I have a feeling this will not stop the same group of folks opposing EVs just the same
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Yep. And agreed, the reputational damage to EVs by government policies having made them so politically polarizing will take years to fade. That's a real shame, because they can be great vehicles for people in the right situation (typically those with a way to charge at home overnight, especially as a 2nd car). The very policies intended to accelerate EV adoption may end up actually setting it back in the long run as a result.

But that should fade over time (if the govt doesn't do it again). And consumers will gradually choose more EVs as they learn the virtues (again, for people in the right situation).
 
dbsb3233 said:
Yep. And agreed, the reputational damage to EVs by government policies having made them so politically polarizing will take years to fade. That's a real shame, because they can be great vehicles for people in the right situation (typically those with a way to charge at home overnight, especially as a 2nd car). The very policies intended to accelerate EV adoption may end up actually setting it back in the long run as a result.

But that should fade over time (if the govt doesn't do it again). And consumers will gradually choose more EVs as they learn the virtues (again, for people in the right situation).
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I think that we will see the EV “CAR” pass the 50% of sales threshold in next 8-10 years. But let’s not forget that the number one sold vehicle in US is not a car but a truck. And even Lucid has admitted that “currently” EV tech does not make sense for trucks. Currently, if I needed a truck for work to haul/tow, I would stick with ICE. The tech will evolve with smaller/lighter weight power dense batteries and faster charging. The current idea of dropping 4000 lb of batteries in a truck as GM and Ford are doing is not a good long term solution. But at least they are taking steps and getting people to think out of the box.
 
dbsb3233 said:
Could you elaborate a bit on what that $700 entails? When I Google Oregon EV fees I'm not seeing anything that big above and beyond normal registration fees that all vehicles pay.
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There is no sales tax in Oregon. Below is payment for buying an EV auto.​

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Payment Receipt Confirmation​

Your payment was successfully processed. You may print this receipt page for your records by selecting Print.

Transaction Summary​

[th width="513.671875px"]Description[/th]
[th width="93.578125px"]
Order ID​
[/th]​
[th width="93.578125px"]
Amount​
[/th]​
[td width="628.25px"]Oregon Department of Revenue Payment
[td width="93.578125px"]
$702.50​
[/td]​
[/td]
 
WildRide47 said:

There is no sales tax in Oregon. Below is payment for buying an EV auto.​

​

Payment Receipt Confirmation​

Your payment was successfully processed. You may print this receipt page for your records by selecting Print.

Transaction Summary​

[th width="513.671875px"]Description[/th]
[th width="93.578125px"]
Order ID

[/th]​
[th width="93.578125px"]
Amount

[/th]​
[td width="628.25px"]Oregon Department of Revenue Payment


[td width="93.578125px"]
$702.50

[/td]​

[/td]
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If you look at the bottom right of page you will see charge of $702.50 for my Lucid AGT. Similar charge incurred when I bought my wife's BMW i-4M50. Again no sales tax in Oregon.
 
WildRide47 said:
If you look at the bottom right of page you will see charge of $702.50 for my Lucid AGT. Similar charge incurred when I bought my wife's BMW i-4M50. Again no sales tax in Oregon.
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Ah, so sort of a sales tax without calling it a sales tax. I assume that's just one-time then, not annual like registration fees?

Is that for EVs only, or all vehicles?
 
dbsb3233 said:
Ah, so sort of a sales tax without calling it a sales tax. I assume that's just one-time then, not annual like registration fees?

Is that for EVs only, or all vehicles?
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My previous Panamera Turbo did not have that extra $700 added on when I bought it. My car's registration expires in April and my wife's 6 months later.. Will find out whether the extra fee is added on when it's time to renew. Not optimistic as Oregon has been trying to extract every dollar it can from its residents lately due to a hole in the budget, because of misspent money for projects that were underestimated or just plain incompetence.
 
The future of EVs is in danger from multiple fronts. Tesla is the biggest name and people seem to think of them as a premium brand, but that view is changing; it is a brand people in the middle and lower class aspire to get to show off even if they don't know anything about EVs. It's also the only recognizable name to most.

The Chinese brand are the ones really taking Tesla's share in international markets. I'm not going to lie. They are leagues better for half the price. If they get in the US, all American EVs are dead.

No one knows Lucid. People know other low production vehicles like Porche, Ferrari, or even Bugatti. Keep in mind that a Lucid Air Sapphire is faster than a $2.5M Bugatti. Lucid has done a terrible job of marketing. There wasn't enough marketing around the Air or Gravity. No one has heard of either one even in car circles.

People have heard of Rivian, but only enthusiasts. They only competition in the EV market, as far as most people are concerned is Tesla and maybe Hyundai. The Hyundai brand is not very premium so Rivian is only concerned about Tesla.
 
exelon said:
The future of EVs is in danger from multiple fronts. Tesla is the biggest name and people seem to think of them as a premium brand, but that view is changing; it is a brand people in the middle and lower class aspire to get to show off even if they don't know anything about EVs. It's also the only recognizable name to most.

The Chinese brand are the ones really taking Tesla's share in international markets. I'm not going to lie. They are leagues better for half the price. If they get in the US, all American EVs are dead.

No one knows Lucid. People know other low production vehicles like Porche, Ferrari, or even Bugatti. Keep in mind that a Lucid Air Sapphire is faster than a $2.5M Bugatti. Lucid has done a terrible job of marketing. There wasn't enough marketing around the Air or Gravity. No one has heard of either one even in car circles.

People have heard of Rivian, but only enthusiasts. They only competition in the EV market, as far as most people are concerned is Tesla and maybe Hyundai. The Hyundai brand is not very premium so Rivian is only concerned about Tesla.
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I agree with you on the lack of public awareness of the Lucid brand. Just 2 weeks ago, an assistant manager at Discount Tires who sold me the tire certificate didn’t even know Lucid is a local brand, only 60 miles from his store. Kind of sad actually.
As far as the Chinese EVs, they’re not aiming for the luxury market so Lucid is relatively safe for the time being. I’ve been in a BYD. The car looked better and was cheaper than the Tesla 3, although not in the same league with Air and with no clear history yet on reliability.
 
EVCar said:
I agree with you on the lack of public awareness of the Lucid brand. Just 2 weeks ago, an assistant manager at Discount Tires who sold me the tire certificate didn’t even know Lucid is a local brand, only 60 miles from his store. Kind of sad actually.
As far as the Chinese EVs, they’re not aiming for the luxury market so Lucid is relatively safe for the time being. I’ve been in a BYD. The car looked better and was cheaper than the Tesla 3, although not in the same league with Air and with no clear history yet on reliability.
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Take a look at maextro. Its $100-150k and loaded like a rolls royce. The Yangwang u7 is another good example. They are all caught up. China has been supporting the EV car industry while we are busy trying to bury our own move backwards towards oil.
I don't think there is data for reliably of any EVs except Tesla and the Mustang. Reliabilty seems to the biggest drawback of a Lucid, too.
I'm not promoting Chinese EVs. I'm a bit concerned. There are other markets outside the US.
 
EV’s will definitely struggle in North America now, especially in US with no subsidies. Even if subsidized again, the majority will not move to an EV, when ICE offers gas stations everywhere, are quick to fill up and gas is so cheap. Also, an ICE car never goes down in range the longer you own it.

The biggest negative for an EV is the drop of range the longer you own it. Somehow EV’s need to fix that. Most will not want to buy a car that goes down in range the longer you own it. I love my Tesla/EV, but really dislike that after owning for 4 years, my maximum potential range has gone down quite a bit.

Also - maybe China is building good EV’s, but would never buy one if they were sold in the US. I get that there are lots more markets other than the US though and don’t want the US companies to fall behind.
 
DBV said:
EV’s will definitely struggle in North America now, especially in US with no subsidies. Even if subsidized again, the majority will not move to an EV, when ICE offers gas stations everywhere, are quick to fill up and gas is so cheap. Also, an ICE car never goes down in range the longer you own it.

The biggest negative for an EV is the drop of range the longer you own it. Somehow EV’s need to fix that. Most will not want to buy a car that goes down in range the longer you own it. I love my Tesla/EV, but really dislike that after owning for 4 years, my maximum potential range has gone down quite a bit.

Also - maybe China is building good EV’s, but would never buy one if they were sold in the US. I get that there are lots more markets other than the US though and don’t want the US companies to fall behind.
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Drop in range not that significant. More significant is the drop in cold weather. But solid state batteries should fix that.
 
gaskiller said:
Drop in range not that significant. More significant is the drop in cold weather. But solid state batteries should fix that.
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I think it is significant enough if you travel a lot like I do where every mile counts. And it really does matter if you are trying to grow EV market share past first adopters, since ICE has no drop in range, absolutely 0 for as long as you own the car. I definitely think it is an issue and I love my EV, but it does slightly make me question getting another one even with all the EV benefits I love. If I never traveled or drove so much, then would not care as much though. 🙂

Agree with you on the cold weather drop too and hope solid state batteries does help with that.
 
DBV said:
EV’s will definitely struggle in North America now, especially in US with no subsidies. Even if subsidized again, the majority will not move to an EV, when ICE offers gas stations everywhere, are quick to fill up and gas is so cheap. Also, an ICE car never goes down in range the longer you own it.

The biggest negative for an EV is the drop of range the longer you own it. Somehow EV’s need to fix that. Most will not want to buy a car that goes down in range the longer you own it. I love my Tesla/EV, but really dislike that after owning for 4 years, my maximum potential range has gone down quite a bit.

Also - maybe China is building good EV’s, but would never buy one if they were sold in the US. I get that there are lots more markets other than the US though and don’t want the US companies to fall behind.
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You may not buy them, but you also can afford to support your local businesses instead of going to Walmart. The people who will buy them are those who can't afford them now. This is why everyone has stuff made in China in this home now. People don't consider these things when purchasing things.
 
exelon said:
You may not buy them, but you also can afford to support your local businesses instead of going to Walmart. The people who will buy them are those who can't afford them now. This is why everyone has stuff made in China in this home now. People don't consider these things when purchasing things.
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I always support local businesses and try to avoid as much as possible from China, which is hard to do, but would never buy a car from China. US or Euro cars for me. 🙂
 
We were appliance shopping and one of the salesmen spotted our Gravity and asked about it. We had 3 guys gawking at it in the rain.

Our plumbers was installing a water softener, so saw our Gravity. He asked about it and said his wife wants one.

Just before Christmas we were parked near a Supercharger and a Tesla owner asked if it really was nice inside.

Awareness is getting out there.

exelon said:
People know other low production vehicles like Porche, Ferrari, or even Bugatti.
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But those have been around for many decades.
 
I just keep giving people rides in my Lucid whenever they ask about my experience. I did that again yesterday. It's amazing how quickly experiencing for themselves how much quieter, smoother, and more powerful an EV is quiets a lot of things "they have heard." On the other hand. I was on a longstanding text thread the other day, and EV's came up. I said I've had a good experience, and immediately had another guy chime in who has never had an EV chime in to tell us all how they were bad, charging was a nightmare and he would never get one. All I can say, is, well, that's not how it's been for me. But the politicalization of EV adoption is quite the drug....

As for Lucid and brand awareness, yeah, it's a a major challenge they face. They don't have an Elon-like personality (yea!) and the press advantage of being the very first to do something. At this point you kind of have to watch car YouTube to know about them. That said, a family member recently told me they saw an honest-to-god Lucid commercial during an NFL or NBA game recently :)...
 
DBV said:
EV’s will definitely struggle in North America now, especially in US with no subsidies. Even if subsidized again, the majority will not move to an EV, when ICE offers gas stations everywhere, are quick to fill up and gas is so cheap. Also, an ICE car never goes down in range the longer you own it.

The biggest negative for an EV is the drop of range the longer you own it. Somehow EV’s need to fix that. Most will not want to buy a car that goes down in range the longer you own it. I love my Tesla/EV, but really dislike that after owning for 4 years, my maximum potential range has gone down quite a bit.

Also - maybe China is building good EV’s, but would never buy one if they were sold in the US. I get that there are lots more markets other than the US though and don’t want the US companies to fall behind.
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NIO has solved this with battery swap, it solves so many issues: automated recharge in <5 mins, no charge curve to worry about, no battery degradation to worry about, no technology obsolescence to worry about. No carrying a giant 120KW or 220KW battery when you only need to pootle around town for 50 miles.
 
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