Savage Geese Takes a Long Look

[Rogue]

I have a lot of expertise in distributed embedded systems. I don't take as harshly a negative view as you. Their discussion sounded to me like a classic case of software people glossing over the details for a non-technical audience. The lack of sensible software questions from the interviewer would seem to justify that approach. When talking between themselves, they alluded to just enough embedded systems architecture to make me think that they're not incompetent. Although one of them is obviously a UX person brought in from outside the automotive world.

The missing interview that would have been informative was talking to the most senior software quality person.

My argument here is not about competence. I've met plenty of competent engineers who still utterly fail at building sustainable solutions.

There's this progression most engineers never fully make it through. When you start off, you use simple solutions that do not cover all the required edge cases because that's all you know. Then you get exposed to these complex one size fits all solutions that do manage to cover all edge cases and use those, although at great cost to sustainability and maintenance.

Most engineers stop there. Very few then proceed to value simple, yet elegant, solutions that address the business use case. Those solutions are hand crafted like a master artisan to include only what's absolutely necessary and hand selected for the desired trade-offs. A Lucid Air vs an EQS.

For two engineers to be interviewing themselves, I would have expected depth of discussion. The natural back and forth of antagonist and protagonist uncovering the decision making with distinct examples.

I think you’re making a lot of assumptions here. For example, it’s entirely possible that there ends up being another CCC upgrade for new Airs, and perhaps that is what’s unified with the Gravity infotainment codebase, or perhaps not.

It is entirely possible they were only referring to infotainment, for example, and that could be a unified codebase without too much craziness. Of course the firmware for the various components would be different, various under the hood systems would be different, etc.

But Android Auto is Android Auto, and they could theoretically unify the infotainment codebase at some point without it being insane.

My critique here is solely isolated to the infotainment and UI/UX management. The people writing the software for the hardware systems obviously know what they are doing as the Sapphire and Air couldn't be what they are today otherwise from driving dynamics. That competence plus actual execution of sustainable solutions extends to the simulation software too given the tech advancements.

However, they just upgraded the CCC in the Lucid Air. The hardware presumably remains fundamentally different as those folks have not swapped over to the Gravity codebase. At least for me, I find it incredibly difficult to imagine how you can unify the codebases without further changes to the screens and another new CCC processor that removes the unique dimensions of the screens and allows for a single processer setup (eg. possibly many years down the line). Motherboard dimensions are often paired to a specific class of processors, and a change is likely needed there to accommodate a motherboard that allows for the required processor. Even then given the integration of these components, compatibility issues are likely to arise given the components were designed for the dual processor system and fundamentally alter the demands of the selected motherboards.

 

[BSheppard]

Interesting review that is balanced and clearly backed by serious research... I am glad I am an early adopter even with the price the benefits out weigh the bugs

 

[victoryroad]

The comments here by those with engineering and technical expertise are very instructive. The review was comprehensive and objective. The concern about reliability of all functions is certainly valid from the perspective of a probably typical consumer. Early adopters are probably not typical consumers though. I can only observe on that point that after three years and the experience I and many of us have had with malfunctioning UI, Lucid, which obviously does not have optimal infrastructure has done a very good job of addressing the shortfalls both episodically and with OTAs systematically. The overall everyday and road trip driving experience from my 3.5 mile/kWh lifetime efficiency and admittedly sub optimal charging time have more than compensated me for the technical UI challenges. The car is a delight to drive, has been reliable for me with the occasional need for reset whether on a 2000 mile cross country drive or short local drives.

 

[hmp10]

The comments here by those with engineering and technical expertise are very instructive.

Ditto. Some of it flies over my head, but these comments have been extremely enlightening.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

Part of what we are facing isn’t really a complex thing to manage. Key fob issues, screen not coming back on time, settings not being remembered, I’m not really complex things that need three years to mature. That is literally car 101.
I’m not willing to give them a pass for missing the basics. And that seems to be the crux of pretty much every single review.

When my kids get in the car, and the music is not working, that shouldn’t really take three years to figure it out. In fact, music is a standard part of the architecture. Creating apps is a standard part of architecture.

So, since 3.3.5 and my fob update, I’ve had two random (non fob) alerts that went away. That’s it. Driven about 800 miles and no issues with music, etc. Is it perfect? No. It’s gotten a LOT better already.

Past is past. Can’t say thy shouldn’t have released it. They did. So let’s see what happens now.

Not at all okay for them to have so many bugs. And this review is excellent. However, saying “it shouldn’t have been released” is irrelevant.

 

[Smorgasbord]

Lucid switched to a different well established supplier, Marquardt, for Gravity's keys.

Then it's no wonder there are still teething pains. No matter how rock solid the underlying implementation is, there are always integration issues.

At some point that "senior software quality person" that @TahoeMichael mentioned, needs to be held accountable for execution from the software team.

Well, what typically comes up is a combination of:
• The Product Manager has their heart set on a certain set of features
• Development doesn't employ an Agile methodology, but instead starts implementing everything (or most things) at once
• QA gets squeezed between them. Even if they can convince Product Management to cut features, Dev may point out they still have underlying architectural issues that need to be sorted regardless of how many features are attempted to be completed.

It's hard to convince management sometimes that it's better to start with a reduced set of rock solid features and add more via OTA than to start will most of the features - and then having to fix them via OTA. Especially for a high priced product, and especially for their second product expectations are higher.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

Tidal sounds amazing even without Atmos because of the lossless audio.

Atmos is just a cherry on top. It’s phenomenal. I’ve listened to lots of high end audio systems in cars and homes. Ultimately, it’s extremely subjective. Do you like “pop” bass or bigger vibrating bass? Etc. I love the way Lucid tuned this system in the Gravity. Others may not. I personally don’t like Bose, B&O, etc.

I will say, every person who has listened to Tidal in my car notices the difference. I expect majority of folks will love the system.

That said, I am sure the reviewer is being candid and honest.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

Software discussion is informative. I think UI/UX is subjective. There are clearly best practices for development, etc but the look and feel and “intuitiveness” are subjective. Simple example is iOS vs Android (with or without skins). I hate the UI on our R1S.

As for fobs, I think the issue is/should be largely behind them with 3.3.5 and fob. I have had both for two days and zero issues. My belief is, as annoying as it’s been, all that fob discussion will go away over the next couple of weeks. I hope.

 

[Ironhorse]

Fob worked for me consistently after the upgrade.

Is the key card working for you ? That stopped working after 3.3.5

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

Fob worked for me consistently after the upgrade.

Is the key card working for you ? That stopped working after 3.3.5

Fob didn’t work perfectly after just 3.3.5 but it does with the fob update.

Haven’t had any issues with my key cards…yet.

 

[hmp10]

I've rewatched parts of this video. It is just so depressing that some of the best automotive and suspension engineering on the planet gets buried by incredibly bad UI software misfires.

Every outing in the Gravity leaves me feeling like Sisyphus endlessly rolling the boulder up the hill only to have it roll back down. During those brief stints when the software does nothing weird, the pleasure of driving or even just being in the car builds and builds. Then suddenly a software malfunction intrudes, and the enjoyment evaporates, sending the boulder rolling back down the hill.

When it comes to UI software, I've never agreed more with an auto reviewer when he said that Lucid ought to attempt only 25% of what it's trying and get that right. It would make for a far better ownership experience.

 

[gaskiller]

I've rewatched parts of this video. It is just so depressing that some of the best automotive and suspension engineering on the planet gets buried by incredibly bad UI software misfires.

Every outing in the Gravity leaves me feeling like Sisyphus endlessly rolling the boulder up the hill only to have it roll back down. During those brief stints when the software does nothing weird, the pleasure of driving or even just being in the car builds and builds. Then suddenly a software malfunction intrudes, and the enjoyment evaporates, sending the boulder rolling back down the hill.

When it comes to UI software, I've never agreed more with an auto reviewer when he said that Lucid ought to attempt only 25% of what it's trying and get that right. It would make for a far better ownership experience.

They should have planned on a unified Air and Gravity code. Just stick to one. Having to different systems takes a lot more resources and time. Tesla did it right…..watch and learn Lucid.

 

[Lucidicrous]

The bottom line is finding the minimum UI software needed for the midsize platform to sell like pancakes. Lucid is now flushing out all the bugs in prep for it. Whether Lucid becomes the new Apple or the next DeLorean will depend on what happens to the midsize delivery.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

They should have planned on a unified Air and Gravity code. Just stick to one. Having to different systems takes a lot more resources and time. Tesla did it right…..watch and learn Lucid.

Except Gravity owners don’t want the Air software in three year old computers. Yes, I know there’s now a CCC update for Air.

Regardless, bugs at this level aren’t ideal. Not defending Lucid.

With fobgate over (I believe), I really don’t have any issues beyond what are generally to be expected early adopter issues. That said, I realize everyone is having very different Gravity experiences.

Now, folks can argue about UI, but as I’ve said, there are best practices, but it’s still quite subjective.

 

[hwy17er]

Every outing in the Gravity leaves me feeling like Sisyphus endlessly rolling the boulder up the hill only to have it roll back down. During those brief stints when the software does nothing weird, the pleasure of driving or even just being in the car builds and builds. Then suddenly a software malfunction intrudes, and the enjoyment evaporates, sending the boulder rolling back down the hill.

 

[allenmhc]

Except Gravity owners don’t want the Air software in three year old computers. Yes, I know there’s now a CCC update for Air.

Regardless, bugs at this level aren’t ideal. Not defending Lucid.

With fobgate over (I believe), I really don’t have any issues beyond what are generally to be expected early adopter issues. That said, I realize everyone is having very different Gravity experiences.

Now, folks can argue about UI, but as I’ve said, there are best practices, but it’s still quite subjective.

Yeah, you actually don't want this. Remember that the hardware between the 1st generation of Air and Gravity are at least 3–4 years apart, so trying to build software/firmware so many years in the future guarantees either overengineering, and/or artificially constraining your hardware to fit your software. As the saying goes, "premature optimization is the root of all evil."

 

[borski]

They should have planned on a unified Air and Gravity code. Just stick to one. Having to different systems takes a lot more resources and time. Tesla did it right…..watch and learn Lucid.

Hard pass.

 

[McGriddle]

I just signed up for Tidal to see if I can appreciate Atmos music over plain old Spotify and it did not disappoint
Noticeable improvement in sound depth and richness on Atmos playlists, I'll be spending more time in a parked car now.

Glad you finally tried Atmos! Be sure to check out a bunch of different tracks, even from the same artist since I've found some tracks a re mixed by different sound engineers and some are just ok whereas others a revelatory.

 

[PalmVegas]

Ok, so the superstructure of the Gravity appears to be good. But that doesn’t mean a thing if Lucid doesn’t assign an army of software engineers to fix the bugs, FAST! They only got one chance to make this EV a success or else customers will be looking elsewhere.

 

[borski]

Ok, so the superstructure of the Gravity appears to be good. But that doesn’t mean a thing if Lucid doesn’t assign an army of software engineers to fix the bugs, FAST! They only got one chance to make this EV a success or else customers will be looking elsewhere.

Thanks for letting us know.