Rivian CEO w/Kara Swisher

[jedwin]

Interested in comments/feedback on this hour with Rivian’s CEO. Seems like a solid strategy, albeit resting heavily on the success of their midsize, as with Lucid. Tempted to take a flier on a bit of Rivian stock, in the same spirit with which I’ve loaded up on cheap Lucid. Though I’m quite sure I’ll always rather drive a Lucid!

He’s big on Rivian’s “software-defined architecture,” (ie integrated software foundation for all car systems, as opposed to dozens of modular mini-compute controllers for various systems), as well as their in-house autonomous driving AI models, as opposed to outsourcing that.

He says it took a couple of times that among US automakers, only Tesla and Rivian are based on software-defined architecture… Is he simply ignoring Lucid, or have they not built on quite as integrated a foundation? (So far at least)

He’s also very hyped on their collaboration with VW, the second biggest auto conglomerate, as an avenue for licensing Rivian’s software and autonomous driving throughout their fleet over time.

Obvious parallels to Peter’s hopes of licensing Lucid tech (though my impression was that was more focused on the motors and drive tech)…. Likewise, the Uber partnership seems to be about providing the vehicles rather than the autonomous smarts (though we may get that via the other partner in that deal, whose name escapes me right now).

What say any of you? (Try to focus responses on the tech/software/autonomous driving themes, rather than rehashing why the driving experience is better in Lucids…!)

 

[debsen63]

i cannot think of a successful collaboration, merger or joint venture between two auto companies, let alone an EV-specific and a behemoth like VW.
yes, Rivian can provide software in a day that VW would take a month to write. but it takes a lot more than that to make a successful collaboration.
Mazda/Ford didn't go well.
Mitsubishi/Chysler didn't go well
Chrysler/Daimler Benz didn't go well

i don't think this one will either. then there's the stuff about culture clash between two significantly different societies, business models etc.

 

[doubletwist]

Obvious parallels to Peter’s hopes of licensing Lucid tech (though my impression was that was more focused on the motors and drive tech)….

I always felt like Peter's dream of licensing Lucid tech was doomed to failure. At best it might be able to be successful in the short term, but no major manufacturers are going to trust their long-term success on another manufacturer, and though they haven't yet gotten their heads out of there asses, once they do finally decide to be serious about EVs, it isn't going to take them all that long to catch up with what Tesla, Lucid, and Rivian have from a technology standpoint.

Which leaves only small, "boutique" manufacturers to license the tech, but a) there aren't all that many of them, b) they don't sell a ton of vehicles, and c) once other manufacturers catch up, they could switch.

I think a much better strategy for Lucid long term is to keep making good cars that people want to buy (with maybe some more investment in software quality ) and expand their capability to build and sell cars outside of the US.
They can still license tech, but I don't think it's something to bet the company on.

 

[Smorgasbord]

I watched this when it first came out a couple/few weeks ago:
1) Swisher is annoying inserting her politics into everything, even cutting RJ off to do so.
2) RJ never took the bait, which was great.
3) RJ's view on Chinese competition was great and insightful. It will be interesting to see what happens if/when the Chinese do what the Japanese did and build factories in the US, losing their government-sponsored free land/buildings and paying people decent wages.
4) VW got a break getting software from Rivian, but in another year, VW could probably do most of their software through Claude Opus 5 (or whatever version they're at).
5) While I appreciate RJ's wanting to be as vertically integrated as possible (one of Tesla's advantages), I don't think he's making the right choice to do his own chip and code stack for autonomy. I think Lucid's approach (same as Mercedes) to leverage Nvidia is the best and least risky. Dealing with Musk for FSD is a non-starter, and Jensen will be much more reasonable to deal with.

 

[DeaneG]

My impression from before the video was that Rivian is also licensing their electronics architecture with embedded firmware to VW, replacing dozens of small ECUs by various third parties. This is something that would take an automaker 2-3 years to do at best. Volvo has done it, and it was part of the reason for the delayed and buggy launch of their new EX90. But they set the architecture and hardware instantiation in place for later models, like next year's EX60.

 

[hwy17er]

i cannot think of a successful collaboration, merger or joint venture between two auto companies, let alone an EV-specific and a behemoth like VW.
yes, Rivian can provide software in a day that VW would take a month to write. but it takes a lot more than that to make a successful collaboration.
Mazda/Ford didn't go well.
Mitsubishi/Chysler didn't go well
Chrysler/Daimler Benz didn't go well

i don't think this one will either. then there's the stuff about culture clash between two significantly different societies, business models etc.

Hmmm...GM/Honda collab seems to have gone pretty well:
The Chevy Blazer EV is the same platform as the Honda Prologue, the latter of which seems to be selling quite well

Toyota/Subaru maybe not as well but still ok (Toyota's 1st EV, the bz4x is built on Subaru's Solterra platform)