Real world range touring 19 inch wheels

[Blue Lectroid]

Absolutely, no argument there, that’s obvious from any equipment that’s battery driven. All I’m saying is I’d like to isolate the efficiency gain from the heat pump alone. Alone, I don’t think it gives the efficiency increase that some think it does. As I said, this is based on what I recall from previous EVs where a heat pump was later introduced and no other changes were made. OTOH I don’t doubt there is a worthwhile efficiency increase in the 25 Lucids when all the improvements are summed up. Again, I’m just curious about the heat pump’s contribution.

As for pre-heating the cabin while plugged in to gain efficiency, again no argument. I’ve done that with a variety of my previous and current EVs and saw a significant gain in initial efficiency at the beginning of the drive where efficiency is typically at its worst.

Got it! Yes, I would also love to see (from Lucid) a breakdown of how they increased the range of the ‘25’s. What came from battery chemistry change, what came from efficiency gains (and specifically where), etc.

I am certain that there IS a gain in efficiency between the heat pump and resistive heat…and probably a fairly large one, actually. This is an absurd comparison, but have you ever looked at the difference in energy use of an 85 gallon traditional electric hot water heater and an 85 gallon heat pump hot water heater? It’s insane…

 

[Bob G]

Can anyone share real world range for touring with 19 inch wheels either from personal experience or link to a test ?
Thanks !

When driving my 2 year old Turing at speeds over 75 mph I have been getting about 3.6 MPKW. Other driving has averaged 3.9 to 4.1.

 

[Knucklehead]

My point was (and is) that cold batteries do not efficiently deliver power. That is simple chemistry. While the heat pump will draw far less power from the batteries than resistive heat, nothing is going to make a cold battery efficient. THAT was the point. If it is cold out, preheat your car for 30 minutes before driving it and your range / efficiency will be significantly better compared to what your car would deliver if the battery was cold. The '24 and earlier versions of the Air will never be able to be as efficient as the '25's in cold weather because of the heat pump AND numerous other changes Lucid made to battery chemistry, thermal management, etc., BUT a warm battery '24 (or earlier) will still deliver significantly better efficiency than a cold battery '24 (or earlier). We don't need a controlled A/B study to know that. I have done this literally hundreds of times going back to 2011 with five different EV's -- same thing every time -- warm batteries deliver power more efficiently.

Another problem is a cold battery has less capacity to hold a charge, and less capacity directly impacts range (of course). The vehicle also uses energy trying to warm the battery. Which obviously also impacts efficiency. A cold battery really creates a ton of challenges when it comes to driving efficiently.

That is why you should get the longest-range vehicle possible! Or park your vehicle in a heated garage so at least the battery starts out warm.

A heat pump could warm the battery more efficiently, I think, but I agree with @Lucken that the impact may be overblown. From what I have read, heat pumps are more efficient until the temperature starts dropping below freezing, and the colder it goes, the less advantage heat pumps provide. I have also read that new heat pump designs are better below freezing than before, so every year there are improvements.

It would be strange for so many car companies to add a complex heat pump systems (when compared to resistive heating) if there is minimal benefit.

 

[Buffalo Bob]

This discussion got me wondering what the appropriate battery temperature targets are. A quick internet search suggests that the optimal range is between 68 and 86 degrees Fahrenheit, and suggests that the ideal of 70 degrees can yield up to 115% of a vehicle's rated range. (I read that the EPA uses 68 to 86 degrees for their range testing.) Would the more experienced folks on the forum agree with those numbers in Lucid's case, or are there different targets? This also got me wondering what temperature the Lucid BMS shoots for when you precondition, and whether or not that target changes depending on whether the battery needs to be heated vs. cooled to get there... all of which would help me determine how long I need to precondition, if at all. For me at least, it would be nice to know these specifics. Thanks!

 

[Buffalo Bob]

A PS question... When you plug in at EA, and are admonished for not preconditioning, is it doing so based on the battery temperature the vehicle is reporting to the station, or from the duration of preconditioning time that the vehicle reports? Since I'm usually in a pretty temperate area, I hope it's the former!