NACS (Tesla adapter) versus CCS Megathread

[thecodingart]

People sure like to prematurely jump the gun on engineering declarations that dont necessarily scale.

NACS is a nicer plug, CCS is THE protocol everyone is using, and the idea that superchargers are reliable is a bit of a sentiment that sounds nice but isn’t necessarily reality… and has already shown problems with the CCS adapters (which will not go away with NACS charge ports) on non Tesla vehicles.

People are inflating an idea that has no foundation.

 

[joec]

People sure like to prematurely jump the gun on engineering declarations that dont necessarily scale.

NACS is a nicer plug, CCS is THE protocol everyone is using, and the idea that superchargers are reliable is a bit of a sentiment that sounds nice but isn’t necessarily reality… and has already shown problems with the CCS adapters (which will not go away with NACS charge ports) on non Tesla vehicles.

People are inflating an idea that has no foundation.

When it comes to Tesla, this is pretty much the norm, no?

 

[stratus]

Perhaps whether or not we planned to, it seems likely that most or at least many EV drivers will eventually be using Tesla’s supercharger network. It’s clear they are the most reliable and I think they have a goal of further monopolizing the charging network in this country. People want reliability and they have obviously delivered. I just hope it doesn’t cause tension between Tesla owners and non owners, especially if stations are crowded. Maybe the CCS network will improve or perhaps this will force them to. Would be so nice to have lots of reliable options, every 50-100 miles , on all major thoroughfares, IMHO.

People sure like to prematurely jump the gun on engineering declarations that dont necessarily scale.

NACS is a nicer plug, CCS is THE protocol everyone is using, and the idea that superchargers are reliable is a bit of a sentiment that sounds nice but isn’t necessarily reality… and has already shown problems with the CCS adapters (which will not go away with NACS charge ports) on non Tesla vehicles.

People are inflating an idea that has no foundation.

I think the sentiment is that superchargers are reliable for Teslas. They may not be reliable with CCS adapters ( I don’t know).
I personally would rather not use Tesla Superchargers ( for a variety of reasons ) and hope other charging networks up their game.

 

[thecodingart]

When it comes to Tesla, this is pretty much the norm, no?

You’re not wrong. Personally, I’m still waiting for a decade to pass with model Y/3 owners so those people get past the honeymoon phase.

 

[thecodingart]

I think the sentiment is that superchargers are reliable for Teslas. They may not be reliable with CCS adapters ( I don’t know).
I personally would rather not use Tesla Superchargers ( for a variety of reasons ) and hope other charging networks up their game.

Ehhhh, superchargers are in a better place than they used to be. Being someone who owned a Model S from 2013-2019, I experienced quite a bit of the companies growth.

Charging speed never progressed the way it should have (80 kW charges was my norm max speed), the charger dance was a consistent experience I had with superchargers during my ownership, and cost of charging was insane and a mess (although I had free supercharging for life).

The ONLY thing I miss from Tesla was the charge connector, and now a days there’s a bit on envy due to the sheer number of chargers in the network.

Much of what people are experiencing with EA I experienced with the supercharger network. People have this weird grass is greener outlook but they’re just wrong.

For me, the win is just having more accessible chargers and that’s all I care about.

 

[Genghis]

For me, the win is just having more accessible chargers and that’s all I care about.

^ this - If you're already frustrated at EA stations, imagine waiting behind a line of Teslas, Ford 150s, and Chevy Volts in addition to the issues already being faced at EA chargers.

 

[DBV]

Now Rivian to jump on the Tesla Supercharging standard. Looks like Tesla standard will be the one that wins in NA. Hope Lucid moves to it soon too.

Rivian to adopt Tesla's charging standard in EVs and chargers

Electric vehicle maker Rivian said on Tuesday it will adopt Tesla's charging standard, giving Rivian customers access to the biggest U.S. charging network and adding momentum to Tesla's bid to set the industry standard.

www.reuters.com

 

[thecodingart]

Now Rivian to jump on the Tesla Supercharging standard. Looks like Tesla standard will be the one that wins in NA. Hope Lucid moves to it soon too.

Rivian to adopt Tesla's charging standard in EVs and chargers

Electric vehicle maker Rivian said on Tuesday it will adopt Tesla's charging standard, giving Rivian customers access to the biggest U.S. charging network and adding momentum to Tesla's bid to set the industry standard.

www.reuters.com

Yeah, I am honestly surprised that Lucid hasn’t hopped on this train yet. If they haven’t, they should. PR wise, it’s not a good look for them.

I’m also hope they do it “right” and offer a port change/upgrade option for those who want NACS or CCS. These ports are fairly interchangeable and having modular options for customers is a huge pro.

 

[DeaneG]

Lucid can't make good use of NACS until Tesla's 1000V V4 supercharging hardware is widespread - at least until there are more installed V4 superchargers than EA stalls. There have been zero V4 power conditioning cabinets installed to date worldwide.

Until then, Lucid cars will only get 50kW from any Tesla supercharger - might as well go to Chargepoint instead.

 

[thecodingart]

Lucid can't make good use of NACS until Tesla's 1000V V4 supercharging hardware is widespread - at least until there are more installed V4 superchargers than EA stalls. There have been zero V4 power conditioning cabinets installed to date worldwide.

That isn’t the point per say.

There’s a talk regarding how v3 superchargers can be updated to support 800v architecture, but the point of Lucid switching to NACS wouldn’t be for “supercharger” support. It would be to move to a common charge plug standard.

People seem to forget that NACS uses CCS and is forwards/backwards compatible. You do not need NACS ports to work with superchargers, just an adapter.

With that being said, NOT providing an option to move forward will leave Lucid in a CHAdeMO like image at this rate just because of new and shiny (unlike CHAdeMO, the capabilities of both charging connectors are fairly equal and reverse compatible). Especially given most charge networks that do support 1000/800v architectures are now on board with using NACS in 2025 timelines.

The point of jumping onboard now is to not get left behind in 2025, not today while appealing to the public eye.

Also “options” are never a bad thing to offer if they don’t have repercussions.

 

[joec]

Lucid can't make good use of NACS until Tesla's 1000V V4 supercharging hardware is widespread - at least until there are more installed V4 superchargers than EA stalls. There have been zero V4 power conditioning cabinets installed to date worldwide.

Until then, Lucid cars will only get 50kW from any Tesla supercharger - might as well go to Chargepoint instead.

Precisely. Until the majority of Tesla Superchargers are at 1000V, a move to NACS would be a serious downgrade for anyone with a Lucid Air. My worst EA experiences have been far better than 50kW.

 

[thecodingart]

Precisely. Until the majority of Tesla Superchargers are at 1000V, a move to NACS would be a serious downgrade for anyone with a Lucid Air. My worst EA experiences have been far better than 50kW.

The downgrade would be needing an adapter until the other charge networks (like EA) deploy NACS stations. Definitely an annoying transitional time. But we have to remember that many companies are aligning on a massive transition in 2024-2025 all at once.. including non supercharger networks.

 

[joec]

That isn’t the point per say.

There’s a talk regarding how v3 superchargers can be updated to support 800v architecture, but the point of Lucid switching to NACS wouldn’t be for “supercharger” support. It would be to move to a common charge plug standard.

People seem to forget that NACS uses CCS and is forwards/backwards compatible. You do not need NACS ports to work with superchargers, just an adapter.

With that being said, NOT providing an option to move forward will leave Lucid in a CHAdeMO like image at this rate just because of new and shiny (unlike CHAdeMO, the capabilities of both charging connectors are fairly equal and reverse compatible). Especially given most charge networks that do support 1000/800v architectures are now on board with using NACS in 2025 timelines.

The point of jumping onboard now is to not get left behind in 2025, not today.

Adapters from CCS to NACS can always be offered after the fact. Putting an NACS port on the Air now would hurt Lucid in the short term, because it would require an adapter for every charge, unless you want to sit at a super-slow supercharger, pissing everyone waiting behind you off. It would also promote the misconception that Lucids "Charge slow" even though the opposite is true. It would play right into Elon's hands, putting outdated Tesla cars in a more favorable light. Almost like a free ad for buying a Tesla.

Making some sort of arrangement to have Lucid's software communicate with a Supercharger, along with an official adapter for purchase I could see maybe making sense. For those who live in areas where Superchargers would make a decent backup option.

 

[stratus]

This is moving rapidly.

Hyundai to consider joining Tesla's North American charging standard alliance

Hyundai Motor will consider making its vehicles more readily compatible with the charging standard Tesla is pushing for in North America, the South Korean automaker's CEO said on Tuesday.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Adnillien]

if Tesla can upgrade the majority of their network to 1000V by mid 2024, then it makes sense for Lucid to get on board. As it stands right now, the Tesla network is rather useless to 800V cars.

 

[Bobby]

if Tesla can upgrade the majority of their network to 1000V by mid 2024, then it makes sense for Lucid to get on board. As it stands right now, the Tesla network is rather useless to 800V cars.

This will all happen. Between government and economic pressures, they will do that. But, it’s going to take a few years.

 

[DeaneG]

There are transition issues to be overcome on both sides:

 

[Halodde]

I just got this email

 

[thecodingart]

Adapters from CCS to NACS can always be offered after the fact. Putting an NACS port on the Air now would hurt Lucid in the short term, because it would require an adapter for every charge, unless you want to sit at a super-slow supercharger, pissing everyone waiting behind you off. It would also promote the misconception that Lucids "Charge slow" even though the opposite is true. It would play right into Elon's hands, putting outdated Tesla cars in a more favorable light. Almost like a free ad for buying a Tesla.

Making some sort of arrangement to have Lucid's software communicate with a Supercharger, along with an official adapter for purchase I could see maybe making sense. For those who live in areas where Superchargers would make a decent backup option.

It would be strategic for Lucid to work with their high traffic charging partners to align dates on any transitions, announce plans to transition years out, and release compatibility and an adapter in the interim.

It would be foolish to prematurely transition entirely.

 

[Shuasha]

Imagine you're Electrify America.. you messed up so badly that it caused many car makers to change the standard they're using so they don't have to rely on you any more. Now you have to spend a lot more money to change cables over to that other standard in case someone needs to use you.

I imagine this will be a case study in business school at some point.