Let's play armchair CMO

[DreamTour]

Hey all,

Great discussion! The thing that everyone is talking about is advertising and promotion, which is just one facet of marketing. (Albeit the one you see)

To unpack the idea behind what they could do better, we need to look at the underlying other factors to see where we agree / disagree with the current execution.

A simple framework for marketing is the 4 P's, (Product, Price, Place, Promotion)

Many of the debates we have are actually not advertising, but one of the other P's.

The 4P's together describe how the company is coming to market.

Here are some examples for Lucid Air. (Greatly simplified)

1.) Product: A high end design focused EV sedan with best in class range.

2.) Price: 70k-120k trimmed up. Fixed "perpetual" pricing model (e.g. not subscription based)

3.) Place: U.S.A. (specifically focused on major metro areas) Note the density of Sales / Service centers on their map. Plus some expansion to E.U.

4.) Promotion: All the advertising you talked about. (It's not clear to me that broad TV is the best GTM for Lucid right now given their product mix) Broad awareness is expensive, especially when the message isn't targeted well or on point (please note the democratic party spending $1B on media and not getting results as an example of not effective / expensive media)

Question to the audience:

Do you agree with Lucid's current 4 P's? Which imply how it is positioned in the market? Or what do you think is off base?

 

[hmp10]

Great!! I'm an engineer, and bought for the superior technology.

I would change: "Our products are expensive now, but the technology that gives them their incredible power, range, handling, room, and style has been especially developed for more popularly-priced cars that are coming your way soon." to.....

Our products provide superior technology that gives them their incredible power, range, handling, room, and style. They offer excellant value for their price.

Also super important: Get more visibility at high end malls.

I was trying to find a bridge from the current expensive products to the coming less-expensive products so that the Lucid brand doesn't get indelibly stamped with the high-price moniker.

But I guess it really depends of what Lucid decides it wants to be . . . a question that I think they still haven't definitively answered for themselves.

 

[Steve181]

I forgot the safety aspect - 5 star ratings - protect you family. Volvo used to do that.

 

[hmp10]

Do you agree with Lucid's current 4 P's? Which imply how it is positioned in the market? Or what do you think is off base?

I wonder how much of conventional marketing wisdom applies any more. We are in a phase shift on so many fronts, and I'm not sure than anyone has a roadmap or can predict outcomes.

Has anyone ever seen a Tesla TV, magazine, or newspaper ad? When was the last time they showed up at a trade fair, auto show, or car performance event? There is not a marketing, communications, or public relations job on any Tesla organization chart. Yet it is probably the most present-in-mind automotive brand on earth right now. The rotating door between entertainment and politics is spinning faster than ever. News is entertainment, and entertainment is news. Politics is performance art. Leading a business is performance art. An intrepid YouTube automotive reviewer who doesn't even know what an editor is can garner a bigger audience than storied auto journalism enterprises. Ralph Nader once killed the Corsair with a lengthy and studiously-researched book. Marquess Brownlee might have killed the Fisker Ocean with a 14-minute and 37-second YouTube review.

I wrote my dream ad I posted earlier in the belief that Lucid has to decide the few key things it wants people to know about their products, say it in a way that fits in a YouTube video short and similar social media formats, and get back to engineering and building cars. In an odd twist, marketing may really may be that simple in today's world.

 

[DrZorro]

The one thing I think Lucid/Peter needs to do is somehow convey a sense of confidence in the longevity of the company. I can't tell you how often I hear people say they'd consider a Lucid but are afraid they are going to be buying a car from a company that might end up bankrupt before their warranty expires and they'll be stuck with a car with no available parts and no resale value. Companies like Fisker and the current LCID stock price are certainly not helping in that aspect either. I personally don't think that's going to happen given that I know a lot about the PIF and their long term 2030 strategy. I think Peter really needs to just be able to get the PIF to publicly state that it's committed to backing Lucid to at least 2030 and beyond (assuming that they are). That would instantly provide confidence to potential customers and shareholders for the next 5+ years going forward. Instead, all we hear in interviews is "this is a capital intensive business and we'll continue to have to raise money at appropriate times". That is a scary thing for customers and shareholders to hear and drowns out the other great things the company has to say.

I also think there are a few core things they need to get fixed ASAP. In today's world there is ZERO excuse for a car to have an unreliable key. I know there are people on here with no key problems, but there are others (including car reviewers) that continue to have issues and having issues with something so simple and basic is unacceptable. Just use a regular 100% reliable keyfob like every other car manufacturer if you need to until you can get the fancier one working 100% of the time. I have never had a car with a key problem...or any sort of radio issue either.

 

[DreamTour]

Actually Tesla's approach is pretty well explained by "conventional marketing wisdom"

Product: Let's say model Y. Basic spartan interior, nothing fancy on ride, but tech forward. They are cutting costs on the physical qualities and focusing on experience / software. It's like a toyota without the quality, but with the tech experience. People don't buy toyotas because they are track demons, but a lot of people buy toyotas.

Price: 40-50k, with incentives / lease stuff it starts to compete with daily driver options. Subs out Priuses. It's accessible to a broad population and form factor is in the volume sweet spot.

Place: Now Global. Huge amount in China. A lot of displays and tech cater to the chinese market. Don't believe me go to a "newer" chinese restaurant and check out their full wall TV's. It's a thing.

Promotion: All earned media basically. You can not be a fan of Elon, but you should respect he knows how to earn media. You get broad reach and association with a "tech forward" brand if you believe in that vision. The earned media is easily worth billions on their own. Though my prediction is that eventually will have a limit too when the product no longer lives up to the hype.

This (currently) is what's allowing tesla to dominate volume in this market.

This is also why Lucid has not positioned as "beating Tesla at their own game" which brings challenges of their own. Since Lucid cares about driving experience, performance, build quality etc. (Things that make a Porsche desirable) it flies in the face of a strategy to hit the same volumes as model Y. It's hard to be both "Cheap / Affordable" and Luxury.

One thing i hear a lot is Lucid has to "get to volume". What does that really mean? Tesla is pushing close to 1.6-1.8 mm units this year at ~90B revenue.

Porsche is like 300k units at ~40B revenue.

You can see a large disparity in ASP.

When we say Lucid should get to "volume" does that mean Porsche or Tesla?

I wonder how much of conventional marketing wisdom applies any more. We are in a phase shift on so many fronts, and I'm not sure than anyone has a roadmap or can predict outcomes.

Has anyone ever seen a Tesla TV, magazine, or newspaper ad? When was the last time they showed up at a trade fair, auto show, or car performance event? There is not a marketing, communications, or public relations job on any Tesla organization chart. Yet it is probably the most present-in-mind automotive brand on earth right now. The rotating door between entertainment and politics is spinning faster than ever. News is entertainment, and entertainment is news. Politics is performance art. Leading a business is performance art. An intrepid YouTube automotive reviewer who doesn't even know what an editor is can garner a bigger audience than storied auto journalism enterprises. Ralph Nader once killed the Corsair with a lengthy and studiously-researched book. Marquess Brownlee might have killed the Fisker Ocean with a 14-minute and 37-second YouTube review.

I wrote my dream ad I posted earlier in the belief that Lucid has to decide the few key things it wants people to know about their products, say it in a way that fits in a YouTube video short and similar social media formats, and get back to engineering and building cars. In an odd twist, marketing may really may be that simple in today's world.

 

[Batteryman]

I believe that Lucid CAN follow the Tesla "marketing by word of mouth" playbook, BUT they need to get product on the streets faster. By way of example, through Tesla's referral program I helped refer 14 people who ultimately bought and drive Teslas. None of these folks are particularly enamored with where Tesla has gone as a company -- terrible customer service a CEO who spends precious little time on the Company and technology that is getting long in the tooth. I believe that at least half (probably more) of the people who at first came to Tesla will be very interested in Lucid...BUT they want to see one, feel one, touch one AND hear about the car after I've been driving it for a bit. The factory has ample excess capacity and I ordered my Pure two weeks ago. Why does it take "2-5 MONTHS" to deliver? And, why are there no Gravities in the Lucid Studios when the vehicle is available to order? Both of those things are significant operational hinderances to executing the "word of mouth" marketing approach that Lucid seems to be taking...all IMHO, of course.

Agree….too slow…..

 

[DrZorro]

Lucid needs to figure out a way to get a large cult following like many other brands such as Apple and Tesla have. The easiest way to do that would probably be to become a first-mover and fully embrace and integrate something like Apple's new Car Play which can control and interact with the car's systems. That would actually kill 2 birds with one stone... it would likely fix a lot of their software bugs if they were using a subsystem developed by Apple and they could get the Apple cult following flocking to Lucid (which I'd say probably has decent overlap of affluent buyers looking for a premium product). When I look at the leadership of Lucid, I often wonder if they need some younger and fresher talent to innovate on the software side of things.

Another thing Lucid could do to boost sales and sentiment is offer a shareholder discount on their vehicles. Many, if not most, of their shareholders are underwater on that investment. Having a shareholder perk is a pretty common thing for companies to do and it's a nice gesture to say "thanks." They could so something similar to the referral program.

 

[hellolucid]

Lucid needs to figure out a way to get a large cult following like many other brands such as Apple and Tesla have. The easiest way to do that would probably be to become a first-mover and fully embrace and integrate something like Apple's new Car Play which can control and interact with the car's systems. That would actually kill 2 birds with one stone... it would likely fix a lot of their software bugs if they were using a subsystem developed by Apple and they could get the Apple cult following flocking to Lucid (which I'd say probably has decent overlap of affluent buyers looking for a premium product). When I look at the leadership of Lucid, I often wonder if they need some younger and fresher talent to innovate on the software side of things.

Another thing Lucid could do to boost sales and sentiment is offer a shareholder discount on their vehicles. Many, if not most, of their shareholders are underwater on that investment. Having a shareholder perk is a pretty common thing for companies to do and it's a nice gesture to say "thanks." They could so something similar to the referral program.

Apple partnerships are almost always a one-sided business from my experience. they will conveniently use you for their advantage and ditch you in an instant once they get a foothold. you will also have to abide by their ridiculous (oftentimes one sided) rules and tight timelines. you will also alienate Android user base if you go that route (Saudis and EU people are probably Android heavy users).

 

[Batteryman]

Lucid needs to figure out a way to get a large cult following like many other brands such as Apple and Tesla have. The easiest way to do that would probably be to become a first-mover and fully embrace and integrate something like Apple's new Car Play which can control and interact with the car's systems. That would actually kill 2 birds with one stone... it would likely fix a lot of their software bugs if they were using a subsystem developed by Apple and they could get the Apple cult following flocking to Lucid (which I'd say probably has decent overlap of affluent buyers looking for a premium product). When I look at the leadership of Lucid, I often wonder if they need some younger and fresher talent to innovate on the software side of things.

Another thing Lucid could do to boost sales and sentiment is offer a shareholder discount on their vehicles. Many, if not most, of their shareholders are underwater on that investment. Having a shareholder perk is a pretty common thing for companies to do and it's a nice gesture to say "thanks." They could so something similar to the referral program.

This I like, you own a certain number of shares, you get a discount. Would create a lot of buzz….Lucid needs to think of something crazy to get everyone talking about the company. Think outside the box…. think crazy….

 

[Steve181]

A coincidence: Just yesterday I was pondering why some of my new Pure's control systems seemed to behave so strangely to me (a long time Android and Windows user). For example, my near term goal is to get the music player to do what I want. I think it might be the California design/Apple influence.

As to marketing, most people I know (who buy Porches, Benz's high end Lincolns, and Caddy's) etc.) do not know what a Lucid is. Get into malls and high end magazines, play up safety and technology, establish a mid south sales and service presence, etc.

 

[hmp10]

Get into malls . . .

Intertesting anecdote. A friend is the manager of the Saks Fifth Avenue in Naples, FL. It's a small Saks but one of the highest-dollar-sales-volume stores in the chain. They were gong to join the program to put a Lucid Air on display but were blocked by the mall landlord. Why? Because there is a Tesla store in the mall, and Tesla obtained a clause to block any other auto brand from being displayed there. (Remember how Musk used to claim his goal was to encourage other EV brands for the good of the environment and mankind?)

 

[Steve181]

Intertesting anecdote. A friend is the manager of the Saks Fifth Avenue in Naples, FL. It's a small Saks but one of the highest-dollar-sales-volume stores in the chain. They were gong to join the program to put a Lucid Air on display but were blocked by the mall landlord. Why? Because there is a Tesla store in the mall, and Tesla obtained a clause to block any other auto brand from being displayed there. (Remember how Musk used to claim his goal was to encourage other EV brands for the good of the environment and mankind?)

Thanks. Very interesting!! I think the Natick (Mass.) Mall has both. Perhaps there is another equivalent spot.

 

[hmp10]

Actually Tesla's approach is pretty well explained by "conventional marketing wisdom"

Product: Let's say model Y. Basic spartan interior, nothing fancy on ride, but tech forward. They are cutting costs on the physical qualities and focusing on experience / software. It's like a toyota without the quality, but with the tech experience. People don't buy toyotas because they are track demons, but a lot of people buy toyotas.

Price: 40-50k, with incentives / lease stuff it starts to compete with daily driver options. Subs out Priuses. It's accessible to a broad population and form factor is in the volume sweet spot.

Place: Now Global. Huge amount in China. A lot of displays and tech cater to the chinese market. Don't believe me go to a "newer" chinese restaurant and check out their full wall TV's. It's a thing.

Promotion: All earned media basically. You can not be a fan of Elon, but you should respect he knows how to earn media. You get broad reach and association with a "tech forward" brand if you believe in that vision. The earned media is easily worth billions on their own. Though my prediction is that eventually will have a limit too when the product no longer lives up to the hype.

It may be possible to explain these things using conventional marketing wisdom. But that doesn't mean that they necessarily arose from a disciplined marketing strategy. All those decisions -- features, pricing, location -- would have had to be made in the normal course of growing and running a business whether or not anyone ever talked to a marketing person.

As for the earned media, I think this is much more a function of Musk's personality, ego, and unslaked thirst for attention -- combined with his particular computer and social media savvy -- than any thought-out marketing strategy.

Tesla has no formal communication or public relations function. Yet both occur as an offshoot of Musk's constant presence in the media, much of it generated by erratic and provocative behavior and utterances.

Lucid has no equivalent of Musk on hand for this to be an option for their marketing efforts. The question is whether thinking along traditional marketing lines is the right path in today's environment. So much of the marketing presence of the legacy automakers seems to be the product of traditional marketing thinking, and most (the Koreans excepted) are falling flat on their faces in generating interest in their EV offerings.

The fact that the Lucid Air already outsells the Model S, the EQS, and the Taycan in the U.S. market likely indicates that Lucid has already done a pretty good job of establishing its brand identity and awareness in this small segment. But with an SUV and a midsize CUV, they're about to step into markets with a much wider array of competing products available and populated by younger buyers who get their information and make their buying decisions in ways very different from buyers of large, expensive sedans.

 

[DreamTour]

It may be possible to explain these things using conventional marketing wisdom. But that doesn't mean that they necessarily arose from a disciplined marketing strategy. All those decisions -- features, pricing, location -- would have had to be made in the normal course of growing and running a business whether or not anyone ever talked to a marketing person.

As for the earned media, I think this is much more a function of Musk's personality, ego, and unslaked thirst for attention -- combined with his particular computer and social media savvy -- than any thought-out marketing strategy.

Tesla has no formal communication or public relations function. Yet both occur as an offshoot of Musk's constant presence in the media, much of it generated by erratic and provocative behavior and utterances.

Lucid has no equivalent of Musk on hand for this to be an option for their marketing efforts. The question is whether thinking along traditional marketing lines is the right path in today's environment. So much of the marketing presence of the legacy automakers seems to be the product of traditional marketing thinking, and most (the Koreans excepted) are falling flat on their faces in generating interest in their EV offerings.

The fact that the Lucid Air already outsells the Model S, the EQS, and the Taycan in the U.S. market likely indicates that Lucid has already done a pretty good job of establishing its brand identity and awareness in this small segment. But with an SUV and a midsize CUV, they're about to step into markets with a much wider array of competing products available and populated by younger buyers who get their information and make their buying decisions in ways very different from buyers of large, expensive sedans.

Agree it likely did not come from a disciplined marketing strategy. The frameworks are just there to describe components of the go to market.

Model y was about to be botched with crazy things by the steering yolk until the Tesla management team threw Elon the Cybertruck to play with instead. Product is a big part of marketing. As others have noted on this thread, lucid went the luxury route. They could have easily gone the drive tech racing route with less lux.

Honestly neither of those two routes lead to as mass a market as teslas product. But maybe that’s not the point. Only so many people care about drive experience that you can take to a track and luxury limits the reach by definition.

What I am scratching at is: are we saying lucid should widen its base by dropping exclusive as part of their go to market? Or are we agreeing with drive tech and luxury, just not how it’s being implemented?

 

[Batteryman]

Intertesting anecdote. A friend is the manager of the Saks Fifth Avenue in Naples, FL. It's a small Saks but one of the highest-dollar-sales-volume stores in the chain. They were gong to join the program to put a Lucid Air on display but were blocked by the mall landlord. Why? Because there is a Tesla store in the mall, and Tesla obtained a clause to block any other auto brand from being displayed there. (Remember how Musk used to claim his goal was to encourage other EV brands for the good of the environment and mankind?)

Shows they are scared of Lucid, that’s why Musk and Tesla fanboys always spread hate about the company

 

[hmp10]

What I am scratching at is: are we saying lucid should widen its base by dropping exclusive as part of their go to market? Or are we agreeing with drive tech and luxury, just not how it’s being implemented?

For better or worse (better, I think) Lucid has already established a reputation for being a high-end product. Comment sections on YouTube videos about Lucid have evolved in recent months, with more and more people acknowledging its technological prowess and more people challenging the Tesla fanboy nonsense. But the drumbeat persists that Lucid is too expensive a product for most people to consider, and the announced pricing of the Gravity has actually ramped that up.

As I've posted earlier, I think Lucid needs a bridge from being an exclusive and expensive product to a value-priced product for larger markets . . . without giving up either identity. It's been a winning strategy for Mercedes for many years, especially in Europe. That's why I ended my dream ad with:

"Our products are expensive now, but the technology that gives them their incredible power, range, handling, room, and style has been especially developed for more popularly-priced cars that are coming your way soon."

Admit openly what everyone already knows about Lucid: it's pricey. But show people that it soon won't exclude them.

 

[DreamTour]

For better or worse (better, I think) Lucid has already established a reputation for being a high-end product. Comment sections on YouTube videos about Lucid have evolved in recent months, with more and more people acknowledging its technological prowess and more people challenging the Tesla fanboy nonsense. But the drumbeat persists that Lucid is too expensive a product for most people to consider, and the announced pricing of the Gravity has actually ramped that up.

As I've posted earlier, I think Lucid needs a bridge from being an exclusive and expensive product to a value-priced product for larger markets . . . without giving up either identity. It's been a winning strategy for Mercedes for many years, especially in Europe. That's why I ended my dream ad with:

"Our products are expensive now, but the technology that gives them their incredible power, range, handling, room, and style has been especially developed for more popularly-priced cars that are coming your way soon."

Admit openly what everyone already knows about Lucid: it's pricey. But show people that it soon won't exclude them.

While no direct comp, my assessment is Lucid's positioning is basically a a Porsche - Benz right now, but with a limited product line / not yet the reach to go down to value.

If you look at the Taycan as a comp for the Air, the Air has way more utility and comfort. One can argue that the Taycan "feels" more like a drivers car, no necessarily in specs but in its brand positioning / other design aspects.

Mercedes didn't have the chops to pull off S-class in their EV offering for well documented reasons, but competes for luxo cruiser.

Sounds like you opinion is that the foundation of product / pricing with flagship isn't wrong, it's just that they don't have the reach yet into a value offering. And your push is that Lucid should be messaging more about their upcoming value offering.

There is a conundrum there which is that the spotlight is still on Gravity, and diffusing that spotlight is generally counterproductive.

In a perfect world they could execute the roll out of products quicker, but i do think that they are taking the time to "get it right"

There's an expression that things aren't built like they used to be. (Race to the bottom)

My experience touring the factory was: For better or worse, they are building them like they used to. Which takes more time and $$. Time will tell if that's still a viable strategy in this day.

 

[hmp10]

My experience touring the factory was: For better or worse, they are building them like they used to. Which takes more time and $$. Time will tell if that's still a viable strategy in this day.

Consumers bring some of this on themselves. Honda used to be recognized for the precise alignment of their body panels and smooth panel gaps. However, Honda's market research led them to conclude that American buyers weren't enough interested in such things to justify the additional production cost, and it went the way of the wind.

There are relatively few car companies that can long resist the urge to cut quality up to the limits of the consumer's willingness to tolerate it. All it takes is a drive in a crappy Mercedes GLA250 to see it in a car that still costs in the mid-40K range.

 

[HC_79]

Lucid needs to figure out a way to get a large cult following like many other brands such as Apple and Tesla have. The easiest way to do that would probably be to become a first-mover and fully embrace and integrate something like Apple's new Car Play which can control and interact with the car's systems. That would actually kill 2 birds with one stone... it would likely fix a lot of their software bugs if they were using a subsystem developed by Apple and they could get the Apple cult following flocking to Lucid (which I'd say probably has decent overlap of affluent buyers looking for a premium product). When I look at the leadership of Lucid, I often wonder if they need some younger and fresher talent to innovate on the software side of things.

Another thing Lucid could do to boost sales and sentiment is offer a shareholder discount on their vehicles. Many, if not most, of their shareholders are underwater on that investment. Having a shareholder perk is a pretty common thing for companies to do and it's a nice gesture to say "thanks." They could so something similar to the referral program.

Apple almost went broke and if it wasn't for the bailout that Microsoft gave them Apple wouldn't be around today. Apple only got a cult following when the iPhone came about. Yes, the iPod was popular but it wasn't really until the iPhone \ iPad that they really started to take off.

People often have a very short memory when it comes to history. They think that the Lucid should be like Apple and Tesla today, but they conveniently forget that Apple and Tesla didn’t become the successful companies they are without facing significant challenges along the way.