Kyle shares more about Lucid Cosmos

[gaskiller]

Air beat the Mercedes S class in sales….an ICE car.

You are wrong in thinking Lucid doesn’t make emotionally appealing cars. Rivian took the easy way- a mini me of the R1. Once Lucud midsize is released, it will have the same buzz. You can’t expect that with the Gravity or Air…they are out of reach of the majority.

 

[socktucker]

You are wrong in thinking Lucid doesn’t make emotionally appealing cars

I would argue that the emotion and exhiliartion of driving one is their biggest appeal. BMW and Mercedes are without question more luxurious and better featured cars-but-they don't drive like a Lucid does, and their EV tech is behind Lucid.

Rivian, @joec IN MY OPINION, is a lifestyle brand more than a car brand. They're the Yeti coolers of EV trucks. Easier to sell because its basically 3 versions of the same truck, and a very specific, loud market demographic. Another way of saying it is Rivian is Cross Fit and Lucid is hot yoga.

 

[Spaceship]

I would argue that the emotion and exhiliartion of driving one is their biggest appeal. BMW and Mercedes are without question more luxurious and better featured cars-but-they don't drive like a Lucid does, and their EV tech is behind Lucid.

Rivian, @joec IN MY OPINION, is a lifestyle brand more than a car brand. They're the Yeti coolers of EV trucks. Easier to sell because its basically 3 versions of the same truck, and a very specific, loud market demographic. Another way of saying it is Rivian is Cross Fit and Lucid is hot yoga.

As a Rivian owner who also owns a YETI...can't argue with that.

I'd add though that Lucid has made a name for itself with its software bugs. While Rivian's software can be laggy, it works most of the time and bugs are few and far between. They have also made a huge effort in becoming a recognizable brand, so not something I'd want to dismiss so easily as they do deserve credit where credit is due. Lucid on the other hand has done things like choosing to bring Marty Supreme as a brand ambassador...to appeal to who exactly?

Lucid clearly makes the best vehicles in their class. We can all agree to that. However, at this point in the game, I think most people would just prefer a car that works, regardless of what else they have to compromise.

 

[joec]

I would argue that the emotion and exhiliartion of driving one is their biggest appeal. BMW and Mercedes are without question more luxurious and better featured cars-but-they don't drive like a Lucid does, and their EV tech is behind Lucid.

Rivian, @joec IN MY OPINION, is a lifestyle brand more than a car brand. They're the Yeti coolers of EV trucks. Easier to sell because its basically 3 versions of the same truck, and a very specific, loud market demographic. Another way of saying it is Rivian is Cross Fit and Lucid is hot yoga.

Agreed on Rivian. I just think Rivian's brand appeals to a smaller overall market than Lucid can ultimately capture.

Lucid can be Toyota and Lexus at the same time. Or Apple, essentially. The feel of luxury at cost points that range from super expensive to not-cheap-but-wont-break-the-bank.

I think, from what I've seen of Cosmos, there are just more Cosmos buyers out there than R2 buyers. Whether or not Lucid can capture them is another story. Particularly world wide. But there's plenty of space either way in the Model Y market for BOTH Rivian and Lucid to eat their fill.

Tesla will ultimately be the biggest loser here. Mostly because they aren't even trying anymore.

I'm not a fan at all of recent BMW design. And forget Mercedes. Way too much bling and not enough minimalist elegance. It's luxury for people who don't know what good materials are supposed to look and feel like.

BMW is on its way back, though. Both in styling AND in focusing on EVs. And they definitely drive great. They will be Lucid's biggest problem long term, I'm sure.

 

[WildRide47]

Agreed on Rivian. I just think Rivian's brand appeals to a smaller overall market than Lucid can ultimately capture.

Lucid can be Toyota and Lexus at the same time. Or Apple, essentially. The feel of luxury at cost points that range from super expensive to not-cheap-but-wont-break-the-bank.

I think, from what I've seen of Cosmos, there are just more Cosmos buyers out there than R2 buyers. Whether or not Lucid can capture them is another story. Particularly world wide. But there's plenty of space either way in the Model Y market for BOTH Rivian and Lucid to eat their fill.

Tesla will ultimately be the biggest loser here. Mostly because they aren't even trying anymore.

I'm not a fan at all of recent BMW design. And forget Mercedes. Way too much bling and not enough minimalist elegance. It's luxury for people who don't know what good materials are supposed to look and feel like.

BMW is on its way back, though. Both in styling AND in focusing on EVs. And they definitely drive great. They will be Lucid's biggest problem long term, I'm sure.

Very true. In about two years, I'll be selling my lucid AGT .At this point in time my two choices to replace it right now or either the Lucid Cosmos or the BMW neau klasse 3 series. A big factor will be about the reliability of lucid and whether it can come close to the rock solid reliability of my wife's BMW i4M50. I'd like to get the lucid as I love my AGT( though it's a little bit large for my preferences), but we'll see how Lucid does as time progresses.

 

[HC_79]

I actually do I think the sound system is the aspect I enjoy the most about the Gravity. Not all Atmos mixes are worth it, but some are great!

The one thing I’ve discovered with Atmos is not all Atmos tracks are created equal. Some make good use of the speakers and others tracks are just utter crap!

 

[RajD]

I thought the same... You could tell Kyle was getting uncomfortable with some of his remarks. Kinda painful to watch. But I thought Kyle's observations were spot on.

Agree totally. I actually wonder if Kyle filmed his solo comments after he filmed the Tijman portion, because he was so freaked out by how negative Tijman was.

Kyle is pretty objective and calls out all brands for failings while also genuinely appreciating the hard work and achievements of engineering and experience. Can’t imagine he is happy about how Tijman behaved in that interview.

 

[TahoeMichael]

Well they should make a better car then. I think Lucid has used up all their goodwill.

But I also think that reviewers likes being contrarian.

The quality problems that Lucid has had during the launch of the Air and Gravity have made people hyper-sensitive about glitches, and I expect that initial reviews of production Cosmos will be cutting Lucid no slack at all around quality problems. And I think that a lot of informed buyers will be hesitant to pre-order a Cosmos due to wondering whether Lucid's 3rd launch will go well or poorly. But I also think the concern about quality will dissipate extremely rapidly if the launch goes well, and won't be a lingering dark cloud over Cosmos sales.

 

[TahoeMichael]

... Another way of saying it is Rivian is Cross Fit and Lucid is hot yoga.

In that case, I'm definitely not buying a Lucid!

 

[TahoeMichael]

Agree totally. I actually wonder if Kyle filmed his solo comments after he filmed the Tijman portion, because he was so freaked out by how negative Tijman was.

Kyle is pretty objective and calls out all brands for failings while also genuinely appreciating the hard work and achievements of engineering and experience. Can’t imagine he is happy about how Tijman behaved in that interview.

Well, he can't be all that unhappy. Editing is a thing in YouTube videos, after all. I think Kyle wants to love Lucid, but is also super disappointed in them, and doesn't at all mind being salty in videos about them.

 

[MGRMLN]

One thing that never gets talked about is the unfortunate timing of Lucid's Brand Launch being in the heart of COVID! Remember that hysteria? I certainly do!
Consequently, their supply chain and manufacturing all had to pivot and I think the quality of some of their suppliers were frankly abysmal. Despite that, they had to deliver a ground up, top line car that took on established brands who've had decades to optimize their supply chain quality over decades. Not making excuses. Just pointing out real challenges.

The next era, as they leave the luxury tier into vehicles that are more attainable, I would hope they can keep the feel and dynamics of their cars, simplify their manufacturing and excise their software demons, all of which they stated as their goals. I hope they manage it!

 

[Pragmatic]

Editing is a thing in YouTube videos, after all.

Not for Kyle, doesn't know the word.

 

[MGRMLN]

Not for Kyle, doesn't know the word.

OoS is famous for 2-3 hour long drives where they literally show you their trips up the highway and back!

 

[HC_79]

One thing that never gets talked about is the unfortunate timing of Lucid's Brand Launch being in the heart of COVID! Remember that hysteria? I certainly do!
Consequently, their supply chain and manufacturing all had to pivot and I think the quality of some of their suppliers were frankly abysmal. Despite that, they had to deliver a ground up, top line car that took on established brands who've had decades to optimize their supply chain quality over decades. Not making excuses. Just pointing out real challenges.

The next era, as they leave the luxury tier into vehicles that are more attainable, I would hope they can keep the feel and dynamics of their cars, simplify their manufacturing and excise their software demons, all of which they stated as their goals. I hope they manage it!

So did Rivian and they seemed to pivot quite well compared to Lucid when not models launched at the same time. The COVID argument is wearing thin. Gravity didn’t go through COVID and they still messed up the launch. Kyle is right, they’re just not good when it comes to execution.

 

[MGRMLN]

So did Rivian and they seemed to pivot quite well compared to Lucid when not models launched at the same time. The COVID argument is wearing thin. Gravity didn’t go through COVID and they still messed up the launch. Kyle is right, they’re just not good when it comes to execution.

Again not allowing them to make excuses. Just context. Agree, they lack executional discipline, particularly in software. I don't think their software testing is very robust either, obviously.

 

[socktucker]

Well he thought he was being ‘smart’ but he came off really uninformed and arrogant. Not a good look. Kyle should give him some feedback if he is going to be on OoS first reviews. Hurts their brand significantly IMO

I finally watched/skipped through half of it, and it did have the effect of me being very interested in seeing the car now. But I have a few concerns about why it may be so hidden still:

1. They haven't shown it because they can't actually produce it at any meaningful level until next year or later
2. A fundamental flaw exists that can't be addressed for years (software?)
3. They cannot attract the talent to overcome this hurdle and are DOA
4. All of the above are false, they are just still enterprise-ruining level of bad at marketing and unable to replace whoever makes these decisions

Having said all that, none of that may be true. I do want to point out the downside of having near unlimited funding in the form of PIF: you can make bad decisions over and over again because money doesn't matter. A good example is "Metaverse" a stupid idea pitched by a man way out of his league (but owns the company so shut up or get fired) that blew 10 billion dollars making a joke of itself. But FB, too, has unlimited money to allow that kind of crap to happen. Lucid has PIF money, but they don't have FB money, eventually something needs to happen.

 

[socktucker]

The quality problems that Lucid has had during the launch of the Air and Gravity have made people hyper-sensitive about glitches, and I expect that initial reviews of production Cosmos will be cutting Lucid no slack at all around quality problems.

This is exactly it. Every Lucid I got into (the one I own, and the short lived loaner) was just problem after problem. I would drive in fear of getting locked out or something just refusing to work, that it would ruin the good parts. I think my final straw was when Lucid messed my car up mobile service, but went above and beyond and literally drove an AGT to my door (6 hour drive!!) to borrow while they shipped my Lucid back for repairs.

I thought alright, issues aside, this is an amazing company. My heart has changed.

...and then the loaner died 48 hours and left me and my daughter stuck on the road on a Friday night coming home from dinner, with no hope of getting it to work. At least it broke down in front of my office, but then it sat there empty and broken down for 3 days before they sent it back on a flatbed. I ended up just driving my Tesla for 3 weeks while they fixed it again. At that point I had only decided I would never own a Lucid out of warranty but would enjoy the remaining 2.5 years of my lease.

...then the roof started coming off and I was done. That's it, too many problems, its been back in service a month already.

I wanted a Lucid. I want the Cosmos too, but I just cannot purchase against my own experience until there are enough evidence that their problems are over. I want them to succeed so I can have one, just not right now.

having said that i just bought a high mileage german luxury EV and I am certain it will not have any problems

 

[DS9]

Very true. In about two years, I'll be selling my lucid AGT .At this point in time my two choices to replace it right now or either the Lucid Cosmos or the BMW neau klasse 3 series. A big factor will be about the reliability of lucid and whether it can come close to the rock solid reliability of my wife's BMW i4M50. I'd like to get the lucid as I love my AGT( though it's a little bit large for my preferences), but we'll see how Lucid does as time progresses.

Keeping an eye out for the M lite version of the NK i3. The bugs should be worked out by the time my lease is up.

 

[PetevB]

I read that summary (still not a fan of Kyle’s “waste people’s time” business model), and I found a lot to agree with. It lines up with a few things I’ve been thinking about—maybe a bit of a hot take:

Rivian is clearly positioning itself as a lifestyle company. That’s not accidental—the market is over “car companies.” Historically they’re cyclical, low-margin, and tough businesses. If Rivian (or Tesla) can be something broader, the upside expands dramatically.

Tesla has leaned all the way in—AI, autonomy, Optimus—and successfully reframed itself as a tech company.

Rivian is trying a different path: brand, identity, Red Bull-style positioning, plus some AI. But it doesn’t have Tesla’s resources to fully pull that off.

And Lucid?

Lucid has doubled down on building the “best car”—efficiency, dynamics, packaging. But there are two big problems.

First, the market for that is shrinking. Even today’s buyers care more about software, autonomy, and tech experience. The next generation may not care about driving at all.

Second—and this may ruffle feathers—I don’t think Lucid is actually making “the best car” in any holistic sense. Yes, dynamically and from a packaging standpoint. But when you factor in reliability, software, and driver-assist capability, it’s hard to argue they are anywhere close to leading overall.

They’re trying to be the electric Porsche—but without the brand equity, build consistency, or ecosystem to support that positioning.

The hope is they fix execution, become a true engineering-led premium brand, and build from there. But the brand they’re actually creating isn’t landing that way—and they’re struggling to even approach Rivian, which itself isn’t exactly thriving.

Pretty rough outlook. And as someone who appreciates great driving dynamics, that’s not easy to say.

 

[HC_79]

I finally watched/skipped through half of it, and it did have the effect of me being very interested in seeing the car now. But I have a few concerns about why it may be so hidden still:

1. They haven't shown it because they can't actually produce it at any meaningful level until next year or later
2. A fundamental flaw exists that can't be addressed for years (software?)
3. They cannot attract the talent to overcome this hurdle and are DOA
4. All of the above are false, they are just still enterprise-ruining level of bad at marketing and unable to replace whoever makes these decisions

Having said all that, none of that may be true. I do want to point out the downside of having near unlimited funding in the form of PIF: you can make bad decisions over and over again because money doesn't matter. A good example is "Metaverse" a stupid idea pitched by a man way out of his league (but owns the company so shut up or get fired) that blew 10 billion dollars making a joke of itself. But FB, too, has unlimited money to allow that kind of crap to happen. Lucid has PIF money, but they don't have FB money, eventually something needs to happen.

Up until Kyles video I was skeptical the car was going into production this year or if it did they would pull the same stunt with Gravity and get 5 off the production line, have a big party and say we did it!! Given that he said its very near getting to validation builds I was surprised and changed my perspective on where they're actually at in its design cycle. If in fact what Kyle said is true, kudos to Lucid for keeping it so well hidden for all this time. That being said, the window to get it shown and start building hype should be sooner rather than later.

I also wouldn't expect real customers to start getting the car until Q2 at the earliest. Production will no doubt start in December and Q1 deliveries will probably go to Lucid employees, family and friends etc.