Kim Java - Preview Gravity?

[hwy17er]

This is my opinion on the FSD, likely an unpopular one.

As more and more people start to experience the FSD, with no competitor, a lot more will start converting to it. The conversion hasn't been high even with Tesla vehicles because only 14+ has been good, and most Teslas are actually still on HW3. Actually, most FSD haters are all the individuals who haven't even tried the newer HW4 version yet. And believe me, it's easy to throw shades because it's so bad before and costly. I'm one of them until I decided to turo one to try for a week because I didn't believe what anyone said due to my own experience over 10 years of Tesla ownership. I was genuinely impressed, but there will always be some haters out there.

For me it's not so much of being a FSD "Hater"...it's just that I truly enjoy driving: the freedom, the thrill, the G's, the acceleration are all invigorating.
Having really good eyesight helps a lot and lets me plan what's 3-5cars ahead. I realize not everyone sees well.
In the end it comes down to reduced road time. Delegating all that to a computer is just boring. And yes, I will arrive sooner than your FSD ...every time.

Gravity is just such a nice car to operate, leaving the pack behind, zipping through curves; it's even a pleasure to maneuver in a parking lot due to the RWS.
If someone wants FSD so much then why have such a performance oriented SUV? It would seem a Model Y would be a better fit if that's your need.

 

[Hammerthyme]

"FSD... because if you owned a Tesla, you wouldn't want to drive it either."

 

[Spaceship]

For me it's not so much of being a FSD "Hater"...it's just that I truly enjoy driving: the freedom, the thrill, the G's, the acceleration are all invigorating.
Having really good eyesight helps a lot and lets me plan what's 3-5cars ahead. I realize not everyone sees well.
In the end it comes down to reduced road time. Delegating all that to a computer is just boring. And yes, I will arrive sooner than your FSD ...every time.

Gravity is just such a nice car to operate, leaving the pack behind, zipping through curves; it's even a pleasure to maneuver in a parking lot due to the RWS.
If someone wants FSD so much then why have such a performance oriented SUV? It would seem a Model Y would be a better fit if that's your need.

"FSD... because if you owned a Tesla, you wouldn't want to drive it either."

Something tells me neither of you have driven the new Model Y Performance. It is a ton of fun, not just in a straight line.

To me, I generally do find the newer Teslas fun to drive due to them being lighter weight than most EVs, balanced ride, excellent throttle mapping and well calibrated regen. I very much enjoy the driving part of being part-owner of one (it is my wife's vehicle) and FSD is just a bonus. I do not get why most people feel like self-driving and fun to drive cannot co-exist. I'm sure you both disagree apparently, but I do not think saying Teslas are not fun to drive is a great take.

I have driven the Gravity and it is excellent for a vehicle of its size. Extremely comfortable too and the dynamic driving package makes the turning radius of it incredible. It also starts $20k+ than a fully loaded Model Y Performance. For some of us, money is also something else to consider.

 

[TahoeMichael]

Something tells me neither of you have driven the new Model Y Performance. It is a ton of fun, not just in a straight line.

To me, I generally do find the newer Teslas fun to drive due to them being lighter weight than most EVs, balanced ride, excellent throttle mapping and well calibrated regen. I very much enjoy the driving part of being part-owner of one (it is my wife's vehicle) and FSD is just a bonus. I do not get why most people feel like self-driving and fun to drive cannot co-exist. I'm sure you both disagree apparently, but I do not think saying Teslas are not fun to drive is a great take.

I have driven the Gravity and it is excellent for a vehicle of its size. Extremely comfortable too and the dynamic driving package makes the turning radius of it incredible. It also starts $20k+ than a fully loaded Model Y Performance. For some of us, money is also something else to consider.

I think everyone here is repeatedly acknowledging that the X was Tesla's comparable vehicle to the Gravity, not the Y. The Y and Gravity obviously live in different parts of the market, and we won't know whether Lucid can credibly compete with the Y until the Cosmos comes out. It's pretty clear that $20K matters a lot to the vast majority of people who buy vehicles, and we're already at a point where the median new vehicle price in the USA is so high that it's now a political issue. The S, X, Air, and Gravity are vehicles for the wealthy, not for the masses. And for most Americans, even a new Cosmos or Y is basically off the table, and used is the only sensible option. It's not wise to spend 50% or more of your annual household gross income on a car.

 

[martinjlm]

I can only speak for myself, but I LOVE to drive. But I don’t hate FSD (except for the two times it tried to kill me). I think there is room in the EVScape for FSD and actual driving. I don’t drive our Model Y much since it’s primarily my wife’s car, but it’s not a bad handling or uncomfortable riding car. It just happens that the Air is better at both, so I tend to drive that. FSD is hands down the best market available driving assistant. Full stop, end of paragraph. Question is, is it so good that people will trade off other vehicle capabilities in order to have it? Some will. Let them. For those of us who prefer to actively drive, let us. And let everybody choose the vehicle that best delivers the experience they want.

What remains to be true though is that if companies like Lucid and Rivian could get a system even 80% as capable as FSD and maintain the advantages in vehicle dynamics and premium content, the combination would eat deeply into Tesla market share.

 

[Bdr100]

One thing Kim said in the most recent video- that early 27' it will have point to point like FSD and also a subscription service
Guessing this was said to her by Lucid- that we will have to pay for the point to point

Lucid charges almost $7000 for DDP2 which is not too far from what Tesla has charged for lifetime FSD. Most other manufacturers charge only around $2500 for their lane keeping ADAS, so I would be very pissed if Lucid wanted to add on a subscription to what I have already paid for DDP2. Now it makes sense for Lucid to possibly offer the Cosmos with a DDP version that only costs $1500-$2500 for lane keeping cruise control and then do subscription for the point- to-point upgrade. This way they can keep costs down for Cosmos and compete more directly with Model Y which we know is their chief target. This especially makes sense if NVIDIA is able to scale to Level 4 as promised.

 

[ke2]

Don't most other manufacturers charge a subscription fee for FSD type service? I think Tesla is going towards a subscription fee ($99/month according to GOOG). Also FSD was initially $10,000 when the Model Y came out. I think it got raised to $15,000 not long after if you didn't buy FSD with the car.

 

[martinjlm]

Lucid charges almost $7000 for DDP2 which is not too far from what Tesla has charged for lifetime FSD. Most other manufacturers charge only around $2500 for their lane keeping ADAS, so I would be very pissed if Lucid wanted to add on a subscription to what I have already paid for DDP2. Now it makes sense for Lucid to possibly offer the Cosmos with a DDP version that only costs $1500-$2500 for lane keeping cruise control and then do subscription for the point- to-point upgrade. This way they can keep costs down for Cosmos and compete more directly with Model Y which we know is their chief target. This especially makes sense if NVIDIA is able to scale to Level 4 as promised.

GM charges about $2,500 for SuperCruise and that covers the system for typically 3 years. A couple things about that…

1. GM offers SuperCruise across most of their ICE lineup and all of their EV lineup. That’s a lot of volume to spread out the cost of the system development and maintenance. Compared to a few thousand Air and Gravity applications per year.
2. After 3 years GM charges a monthly subscription for SuperCruise. Not sure how much it is.
3. Without SuperCruise, GM vehicles (ICE and EV) offer Adaptive Cruise without lane centering. Same as Lucid does. That is for everything from Chevrolet to Cadillac, though most Cadillacs have SuperCruise as standard equipment.

Ford’s deployment of BlueCruise is similar.

 

[The_Don]

Lucid charges almost $7000 for DDP2 which is not too far from what Tesla has charged for lifetime FSD. Most other manufacturers charge only around $2500 for their lane keeping ADAS, so I would be very pissed if Lucid wanted to add on a subscription to what I have already paid for DDP2. Now it makes sense for Lucid to possibly offer the Cosmos with a DDP version that only costs $1500-$2500 for lane keeping cruise control and then do subscription for the point- to-point upgrade. This way they can keep costs down for Cosmos and compete more directly with Model Y which we know is their chief target. This especially makes sense if NVIDIA is able to scale to Level 4 as promised.

My guess is the upfront purchase option for DDPro2 will get removed for the 2028 MY Gravity (correspondingly, all Gravity will have DDPro2 hardware) and there will be no upfront option for Cosmos at launch. I highly doubt they'd make you pay for a subscription service if you've already purchased DDPro2 outright.

 

[ke2]

GM charges about $2,500 for SuperCruise and that covers the system for typically 3 years. A couple things about that…

1. GM offers SuperCruise across most of their ICE lineup and all of their EV lineup. That’s a lot of volume to spread out the cost of the system development and maintenance. Compared to a few thousand Air and Gravity applications per year.
2. After 3 years GM charges a monthly subscription for SuperCruise. Not sure how much it is.
3. Without SuperCruise, GM vehicles (ICE and EV) offer Adaptive Cruise without lane centering. Same as Lucid does. That is for everything from Chevrolet to Cadillac, though most Cadillacs have SuperCruise as standard equipment.

Ford’s deployment of BlueCruise is similar.

For the Gravity Grand Touring with Dream Drive 2 Premium you get the adaptive cruise control WITH lane centering (so slightly different for at least the Gravity).

 

[ke2]

My guess is the upfront purchase option for DDPro2 will get removed for the 2028 MY Gravity (correspondingly, all Gravity will have DDPro2 hardware) and there will be no upfront option for Cosmos at launch. I highly doubt they'd make you pay for a subscription service if you've already purchased DDPro2 outright.

So is Lucid going to be putting the DD2 Pro hardware on all cars hoping that folks will be a subscription package to use it? The reason I was told for the $5,250 cost increase was extra hardware for the L2++ features (and perhaps L3)

 

[The_Don]

So is Lucid going to be putting the DD2 Pro hardware on all cars hoping that folks will be a subscription package to use it? The reason I was told for the $5,250 cost increase was extra hardware for the L2++ features (and perhaps L3)

My guess is yes because they're trying to move towards a subscription model. For all we know the base price for the Gravity may increase to accommodate this extra hardware. I wouldn't jump to conclude you're getting the short end of the stick. If you hadn't gotten the package when you got the car, there was no way you'd be able to get anywhere near L2++. And now you likely won't have to pay the subscription fee.

 

[erigion]

Lucid said in the investor presentation in March that ADAS would be subscription feature.

"DreamDrive Pro $69 –199 / mo. Tiered by ADAS level (L2++ to L4) H1 2027"

Granted, this was before pretty much the entire c-suite turned over so this might be up in the air.

Rivian does offer a lifetime subscription to Autonomy+ for $2.5k (probably non-transferrable) or a $50/month plan.

 

[gaskiller]

Something tells me neither of you have driven the new Model Y Performance. It is a ton of fun, not just in a straight line.

To me, I generally do find the newer Teslas fun to drive due to them being lighter weight than most EVs, balanced ride, excellent throttle mapping and well calibrated regen. I very much enjoy the driving part of being part-owner of one (it is my wife's vehicle) and FSD is just a bonus. I do not get why most people feel like self-driving and fun to drive cannot co-exist. I'm sure you both disagree apparently, but I do not think saying Teslas are not fun to drive is a great take.

I have driven the Gravity and it is excellent for a vehicle of its size. Extremely comfortable too and the dynamic driving package makes the turning radius of it incredible. It also starts $20k+ than a fully loaded Model Y Performance. For some of us, money is also something else to consider.

Did you try to make a fast turn in your Tesla? I’m a driving enthusiast and hate driving them. Better than Rivian but nowhere close to any Lucid in that department. I call them electric lunchboxes on wheels. But if you use FSD, who cares how it drives, unless of course you aren’t paying attention- you need to be staring at the road with eyes wide open and hands ready at a seconds notice to turn the steering. Not what I call fun and not something I would pay for.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

There IS a thread dedicated to Dream Drive and/or hands free somewhere…just sayin’.

I’m too lazy to search for it.

 

[Leftlane]

Any of these influencer loaner programs are only valid if they are treated just like any other Lucid owner would be. In other words, there should not be any flagging her account in order to give her immediate service or the best loaners etc. Let’s see how much she likes the actual ownership experience and not just the look and feel of the car.

I’ve always contended that even magazines like Car and Driver would be much different if it was Car and Owner. Manufacturers bend over backward to make sure things go better for the influential folks and the ordinary customers don’t get that benefit.

Same thing with Tesla and robotaxi, etc. It distorts the reality when the field is tilted in their favor.

 

[9point81]

Who else besides her and Kyle got these long term loaners?

 

[RajD]

Any of these influencer loaner programs are only valid if they are treated just like any other Lucid owner would be. In other words, there should not be any flagging her account in order to give her immediate service or the best loaners etc. Let’s see how much she likes the actual ownership experience and not just the look and feel of the car.

I’ve always contended that even magazines like Car and Driver would be much different if it was Car and Owner. Manufacturers bend over backward to make sure things go better for the influential folks and the ordinary customers don’t get that benefit.

Same thing with Tesla and robotaxi, etc. It distorts the reality when the field is tilted in their favor.

In principle I agree with you. But Lucid has demonstrated repeatedly that even when they do prioritize these influencers who get their cars, they can’t prevent the negative experiences. So I’m not sure they’re doing much to change the outcome really. It will be what it is, and people should always take the videos with a grain of salt.

 

[borski]

Agreed.

Not sure if this was part of your take - but I live in the area and where she drives and lives based off her videos are very easily identifiable places. I actually saw her walking around one time and was like wow, small world. But also, not really. I cannot believe how much people document their every day lives, kids included, and not consider the dangers they pose themselves too when random people online have access to it.

I would love to review cars, but couldn't fathom putting my face on the internet. Couldn't imagine doing that and also including kids. Maybe me being too cynical, but also the world we live in unfortunately.

Fame and publicity does have its problems; that has been true for far longer than YouTube has existed. Paparazzi have killed.

 

[Spaceship]

Did you try to make a fast turn in your Tesla? I’m a driving enthusiast and hate driving them. Better than Rivian but nowhere close to any Lucid in that department. I call them electric lunchboxes on wheels. But if you use FSD, who cares how it drives, unless of course you aren’t paying attention- you need to be staring at the road with eyes wide open and hands ready at a seconds notice to turn the steering. Not what I call fun and not something I would pay for.

I have. It actually handles turns better than my dedicated sports car (BMW M240) and can blast out of it much quicker. I really enjoy driving it. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way, but hey, this is why we have options. FSD is good enough that I let it do its own thing. I'm never really stressed using it, but completely understand how one may feel otherwise.