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Interim CEO claims L2++ EoY and L4 by 2029

The_Don said:
Not sure how partnering with Nvidia would be considered compromising but ok....
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They are "compromising" speed to market since they couldn't get there on their own, for the premium Nividia is charging them.
 
sri said:
I am talking about chickening out completely on Air saying it is not capable and still keep charing $6750 for Air 2026 models like it is something great and out of the World.
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I totally agree that it makes no sense to charge the same amount for DDP in Air as DDP2 in Gravity if there are no plans to bring DDP up to same capabilities as DDP2.
 
SaaSManKS said:
They are "compromising" speed to market since they couldn't get there on their own, for the premium Nividia is charging them.
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Don't think you're appreciating what goes into developing this technology.

A few things to consider:

1) Lucid doesn't have the capital to invest in developing everything themselves like Tesla.

2) Lucid is still developing its AV capabilities in-house. To do so, they are using Nvidia hardware and software, and are getting help from the Nvidia team to develop it. Why is Nvidia helping? It's to their benefit because successful deployment is a proof of concept and will help them get more business.

3) The "best" approach to developing this tech is rapidly evolving, and using Nvidia hardware (rather than ASICs like Tesla and Rivian) helps ensure they have flexibility for any future changes. This is important because Lucid is not in a strong financial position and, as such, developing a custom chip would be a massive risk if it turns out to be suboptimal in a couple years.
 
The_Don said:
Don't think you're appreciating what goes into developing this technology.

A few things to consider:

1) Lucid doesn't have the capital to invest in developing everything themselves like Tesla.

2) Lucid is still developing its AV capabilities in-house. To do so, they are using Nvidia hardware and software, and are getting help from the Nvidia team to develop it. Why is Nvidia helping? It's to their benefit because successful deployment is a proof of concept and will help them get more business.

3) The "best" approach to developing this tech is rapidly evolving, and using Nvidia hardware (rather than ASICs like Tesla and Rivian) helps ensure they have flexibility for any future changes. This is important because Lucid is not in a strong financial position and, as such, developing a custom chip would be a massive risk if it turns out to be suboptimal in a couple years.
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Agreed. Developing true FSD type systems are a massive undertaking that, if Lucid did on it’s own, would take many years and countless amount of money. I makes sense for many/most car manufacturers to partner with a heavyweight like NVIDIA, the supplier of these chips, to do the heavy lifting.
 
SaaSManKS said:
They are "compromising" speed to market since they couldn't get there on their own, for the premium Nividia is charging them.
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In my mind "no compromise" has always meant to buy the best of what's available in the market, and if/when that best option isn't good enough, to roll up your sleeves to build it yourself.

For Lucid, that's always meant things like packaging, their electric motors and drivetrain, suspension, etc.

For best-of-breed partnerships, I'd point to things like the 22/23" tires w/ Pirelli, the 6K OLED screen, the interior leather, etc. I'd put this Nvidia ADAS partnership in that same camp.

Ironically, there's plenty of other areas that you can totally criticize Lucid for not living up to their motto: the keyfob troubles, the lack of electrochromic dimming on the glass roof, crummy second-row seat motors, etc. Working w/ Nvidia just isn't one of them.
 
GoFast said:
The solution to this would be to change the accounting rules so that car companies, or anyone else for that matter, have to defer 100% of revenue unless all of the advertised features for the product are available when the customer buys it.

Everyone talks about “software defined vehicle” like it’s a good thing… it’s a facade.

First of all… It’s a silly thing to make a big deal about. There are more computers in the car, so there is more software. There’s absolutely nothing magic about that… And in fact, companies that are bad at software produce even worse products when they have to write more software.

Second… It makes it even easier for companies to ship half finished junk and then “fix it later “… Software companies used to do this back in the 80s and 90s, and they had their hands slapped. It’s about time that happened to companies in other industries as well.

From my perspective, it’s not OK to ship something that’s half done just to make revenue and then promise that things will be delivered later… As we’ve seen from numerous companies, sometimes later never comes. To the best of my knowledge, no one has offered a rebate or a refund for promised features that never showed up on various products.
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I bought a 2014 Ford Fusion Hybrid (still own with close to 200k miles. Still drives great). It was sold with an MPG of 47. Several months after ownership, Ford sent me a check as they miscalculated. MPG is really 43. I’m sure there were legal considerations for sending owners checks but it was nice they either 1) did the right thing and/or 2) were being held accountable by someone.
 
allenmhc said:
In my mind "no compromise" has always meant to buy the best of what's available in the market, and if/when that best option isn't good enough, to roll up your sleeves to build it yourself.

For Lucid, that's always meant things like packaging, their electric motors and drivetrain, suspension, etc.

For best-of-breed partnerships, I'd point to things like the 22/23" tires w/ Pirelli, the 6K OLED screen, the interior leather, etc. I'd put this Nvidia ADAS partnership in that same camp.

Ironically, there's plenty of other areas that you can totally criticize Lucid for not living up to their motto: the keyfob troubles, the lack of electrochromic dimming on the glass roof, crummy second-row seat motors, etc. Working w/ Nvidia just isn't one of them.
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So both of you guys are of the opinion that Lucid from the outset never intended to build FSD in house? Their entire goal was to find a partner? That completely goes away from them being a vertically integrated provider, their whole launch and ramp was around their softwares capabilities...And if that's true, then why have they been investing in ADAS on their own hemorrhaging cash into an area (allegedly) they intended to outsource...I'm not saying partnering with Nividia is bad by any means, but that's a far stretch from they never intended to build this in house and have been looking for a partner to get them over the hump. They have dumped hundreds of millions probably billions into ADAS on their own, and NOW are going with a partner.

it has been 4 years since they first lanuched the Air and the OS was a mess; Gravity was supposed to be the new stage for the UI, and FLOP! Now they are buying their way into the market (which is fine I guess but their capex is so bad already) and we are just assuming bc it's Nividia it will be amazing but this is a big step for them too
 
allenmhc said:
For best-of-breed partnerships, I'd point to things like the 22/23" tires w/ Pirelli, the 6K OLED screen, the interior leather, etc. I'd put this Nvidia ADAS partnership in that same camp.
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I highly disagree with calling their interior leather partnership a best of breed based on all the threads about the cracks and breaks.
 
Smorgasbord said:
Is there a recommended leather care product people use? Just have a new Gravity and wondering what to use given the perforations.
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Personally I would probably use MacGuires but I would only use it if something happened, generally you don’t need to treat them especially for something this new
 
SaaSManKS said:
So both of you guys are of the opinion that Lucid from the outset never intended to build FSD in house? Their entire goal was to find a partner? That completely goes away from them being a vertically integrated provider, their whole launch and ramp was around their softwares capabilities...And if that's true, then why have they been investing in ADAS on their own hemorrhaging cash into an area (allegedly) they intended to outsource...I'm not saying partnering with Nividia is bad by any means, but that's a far stretch from they never intended to build this in house and have been looking for a partner to get them over the hump. They have dumped hundreds of millions probably billions into ADAS on their own, and NOW are going with a partner.

it has been 4 years since they first lanuched the Air and the OS was a mess; Gravity was supposed to be the new stage for the UI, and FLOP! Now they are buying their way into the market (which is fine I guess but their capex is so bad already) and we are just assuming bc it's Nividia it will be amazing but this is a big step for them too
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I think it is ok for a company to intend to build something internally and then be pragmatic enough to be shown/decide that it is more effective (whether that means cost effective or more efficient or simply a better way of accomplishing a goal) and embracing that change. I go back to Brembo, Bosch and Bilstein. There was no ADAS provider 5 or 6 years ago (other than a competitor) to go to for the hardware/software, so Lucid felt it had to do it themselves. They have since determined that working with a vendor (back to Brembo, Bilstein and Bosch and now Nvidia) will provide a better product than they can do themselves.

The customer (or, at least ME) doesn't care whether it is developed in house - I just want the feature to work reliably and at a high level of performance.

When it comes to vertical integration, that concept left the automotive industry many decades ago. Car companies only build what they can't buy outside. Lear and Recaro seats, lighting systems, brake systems, wiring harnesses, rubber window trim, glass, suspension systems - we've come a long way since Delco Remy wiring harnesses and Delco lighting were built and put into GM products by Fisher Body from panels made in GM stamping plants. Silos don't work in something as complex as an automobile.
 
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tmichael said:
I think it is ok for a company to intend to build something internally and then be pragmatic enough to be shown/decide that it is more effective (whether that means cost effective or more efficient or simply a better way of accomplishing a goal) and embracing that change. I go back to Brembo, Bosch and Bilstein. There was no ADAS provider 5 or 6 years ago (other than a competitor) to go to for the hardware/software, so Lucid felt it had to do it themselves. They have since determined that working with a vendor (back to Brembo, Bilstein and Bosch and now Nvidia) will provide a better product than they can do themselves.

The customer (or, at least ME) doesn't care whether it is developed in house - I just want the feature to work reliably and at a high level of performance.
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Fair point but my prediction is Lucid is struggling so badly they are going to either get bought (which is the least likely IMO) or they are going to pull back from B2C and be more of an OEM supplier for battery and drivetrains B2B. Maybe they will keep the Air/Gravity/Earth models but given their current ramp that's not likely, plus why would anyone pay for an Air if they can get the same efficiency and drivetrain from a ford or some other MFG they partnered with...
 
SaaSManKS said:
Fair point but my prediction is Lucid is struggling so badly they are going to either get bought (which is the least likely IMO) or they are going to pull back from B2C and be more of an OEM supplier for battery and drivetrains B2B. Maybe they will keep the Air/Gravity/Earth models but given their current ramp that's not likely, plus why would anyone pay for an Air if they can get the same efficiency and drivetrain from a ford or some other MFG they partnered with...
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Fair point. I think Aston Martin will have some 'splainin' to do when they use Lucid motors in their EVs. But, they use Mercedes engines now, so I guess they're already experienced with that explanation...
 
tmichael said:
Fair point. I think Aston Martin will have some 'splainin' to do when they use Lucid motors in their EVs. But, they use Mercedes engines now, so I guess they're already experienced with that explanation...
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IF AM does use Lucid in their cars, that is exactly the type of business model I think Lucid will look to replicate.
 
tmichael said:
There was no ADAS provider 5 or 6 years ago (other than a competitor) to go to for the hardware/software, so Lucid felt it had to do it themselves. They have since determined that working with a vendor (back to Brembo, Bilstein and Bosch and now Nvidia) will provide a better product than they can do themselves.
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You do realize Lucid has been using Nvidia from day one. They’ve never built a fully in house ADAS system.
 
HC_79 said:
You do realize Lucid has been using Nvidia from day one. They’ve never built a fully in house ADAS system.
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Nope, I didn’t. I was responding to the post about vertical integration and doing it in-house. Thanks for the correction!

Dang, I love this forum!
 
tmichael said:
Nope, I didn’t. I was responding to the post about vertical integration and doing it in-house. Thanks for the correction!

Dang, I love this forum!
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My understanding at a high level is Lucid currently gets the platform and the tools from Nvidia to develop DreamDrive Pro. This evolution of the partnership seems to be Nvidia and Lucid working more closely together to deliver the whole A to Z.

I think this is one of Lucid’s smarter decisions. They simply don’t have the cash, staff, time or energy to be focusing on a fully fledged in house ADAS system while building the brand, expanding across the world and delivering the mid-size.
 
SaaSManKS said:
I highly disagree with calling their interior leather partnership a best of breed based on all the threads about the cracks and breaks.
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The leather is fine. It's the Purluxe that has had issues.
 
SaaSManKS said:
Fair point but my prediction is Lucid is struggling so badly they are going to either get bought (which is the least likely IMO) or they are going to pull back from B2C and be more of an OEM supplier for battery and drivetrains B2B. Maybe they will keep the Air/Gravity/Earth models but given their current ramp that's not likely, plus why would anyone pay for an Air if they can get the same efficiency and drivetrain from a ford or some other MFG they partnered
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I hesitate to try and analyze consumer psychology and answer the "why would anyone pay for an Air" question. But it's clear that more consumers are buying an Air than any other luxury EV sedan, so clearly there is some market appeal. I think it's very premature to write off Lucid's B2C business, even though they do continue to obviously have some challenges to overcome.
 
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