Cars and Software

[Science]

I thought I found a workaround for the Lucid Air not waking up. I keep getting a message from the Lucid app telling me to keep the app running in the background (I believe it is).

Today, after the car wouldn't wake up after a week of reliable wake up I am motivated again to complain. Don't get me wrong...we are ex-Tesla and won't go back. We like our Air. We don't like the software. Also, I know it's early.

There was an article in the New York Times on December 15, 2024 that points out that today's car makers are facing technologies they have little experience with: "Others have struggled to build appealing electric vehicles and develop software, an increasingly important element of car design." Nailed it.

I get it. I am a veteran of the early days of real-time software design. Lots of bugs. Spaghetti code. Bad design "fixed" by "patches." Software was just not in the DNA of new systems we were designing to replace electro-mechanical systems.

It's notable that "pure" software companies such as Google, Meta and that ilk seem to have taken such enormous strides. Sure, they have their problems and users have their "wish-lists" but car makers seem to be far behind.

I hope that Lucid management is listening and is learning who their hires need to be.

 

[hydbob]

If you keep getting that message are you sure it is?

 

[Science]

If you keep getting that message are you sure it is?

Hi hy. No, I'm not sure the app is running in the background. I'm very "phone proficient" so if there's a way to know the app is not running in the background, I think I would have found it by now. And even when I can wake up the car, the app sends me a message about "better mobile key experiences." Clearly there is a design problem. Could be hardware. Could be Bluetooth handling and wifi handling.

But, more to the point, the car is not waking up from Android or iPhone.

I am a car owner and a shareholder. I want Lucid to succeed.

 

[hydbob]

Hi hy. No, I'm not sure the app is running in the background. I'm very "phone proficient" so if there's a way to know the app is not running in the background, I think I would have found it by now. And even when I can wake up the car, the app sends me a message about "better mobile key experiences." Clearly there is a design problem. Could be hardware. Could be Bluetooth handling and wifi handling.

But, more to the point, the car is not waking up from Android or iPhone.

I am a car owner and a shareholder. I want Lucid to succeed.

We've known for a while that Pixel phones are very aggressive at closing background apps. Iphone should be working fine. Have you gone through all of @Bobby tips and tricks? Unpairing and repairing after an update is necessary for some folks.

 

[Bobby]

Hi hy. No, I'm not sure the app is running in the background. I'm very "phone proficient" so if there's a way to know the app is not running in the background, I think I would have found it by now. And even when I can wake up the car, the app sends me a message about "better mobile key experiences." Clearly there is a design problem. Could be hardware. Could be Bluetooth handling and wifi handling.

But, more to the point, the car is not waking up from Android or iPhone.

I am a car owner and a shareholder. I want Lucid to succeed.

I have found that the app does not need to be running in the background on iPhone. The app only sends the message you indicate when it is forced to quit. Are you force quitting apps? No real need to do that on iPhone.

 

[Science]

I have found that the app does not need to be running in the background on iPhone. The app only sends the message you indicate when it is forced to quit. Are you force quitting apps? No real need to do that on iPhone.

We are not force quitting on iPhone.

 

[Science]

We've known for a while that Pixel phones are very aggressive at closing background apps. Iphone should be working fine. Have you gone through all of @Bobby tips and tricks? Unpairing and repairing after an update is necessary for some folks.

It's hard to blame closing a Pixel app for this. After all, if the app is terminated shouldn't the car wake up after initiating the app again? Okay if it take a while longer but it doesn't take a long time...it just spins and spins.

As to the iPhone glitch, we have not gone through all the tips from @Bobby.

You write that unpairing and pairing again might help especially after an update. Do you mean a car Over The Air (OTA) update or phone update? We will try the pair/unpairing.

 

[Science]

It's hard to blame closing a Pixel app for this. After all, if the app is terminated shouldn't the car wake up after initiating the app again? Okay if it take a while longer but it doesn't take a long time...it just spins and spins.

As to the iPhone glitch, we have not gone through all the tips from @Bobby.

You write that unpairing and pairing again might help especially after an update. Do you mean a car Over The Air (OTA) update or phone update? We will try the pair/unpairing.

It's hard to blame closing a Pixel app for this. After all, if the app is terminated shouldn't the car wake up after initiating the app again? Okay if it take a while longer but it doesn't take a long time...it just spins and spins.

As to the iPhone glitch, we have not gone through all the tips from @Bobby.

You write that unpairing and pairing again might help especially after an update. Do you mean a car Over The Air (OTA) update or phone update? We will try the pair/unpairing.

I'm reflecting on my own post now. Pairing is a Bluetooth thing. Remote wakeup is an Internet thing.

The more I think about this, it seems the glitch appears when trying to wake the car up when it is both in Bluetooth range and WiFi range.I can't prove that, but my software gut tells me the car is getting conflicting messages and is getting confused.

Does anyone have input to Lucid to alert them to this? Fixing this would result in more happy customers.

 

[hydbob]

It's hard to blame closing a Pixel app for this. After all, if the app is terminated shouldn't the car wake up after initiating the app again? Okay if it take a while longer but it doesn't take a long time...it just spins and spins.

As to the iPhone glitch, we have not gone through all the tips from @Bobby.

You write that unpairing and pairing again might help especially after an update. Do you mean a car Over The Air (OTA) update or phone update? We will try the pair/unpairing.

Sorry I misinterpreted your post as a waking up (unlocking) issue. Try turning the wifi off on your car and see if that helps.

 

[hmp10]

It's notable that "pure" software companies such as Google, Meta and that ilk seem to have taken such enormous strides. Sure, they have their problems and users have their "wish-lists" but car makers seem to be far behind.

I hope that Lucid management is listening and is learning who their hires need to be.

There are few products in the world outside the aerospace industry that are more complex to engineer, design, and build than automobiles. And, as Peter Rawlinson explained in the recent "SavageGeese" inaugural episode of "Why It's Hard to Make Cars", Lucid had limited resources for bringing a new car to market, especially one that aspired to advance the state of the art in EV propulsion and space packaging (which it did in spades).

I think comparing Lucid's early software efforts to what companies such as Google and Meta have done is a bit unfair, given that they have attempted nothing as complex as engineering and building a car while pursuing their software efforts. In fact, resource-rich juggernauts such as Google and Apple have abandoned their automotive efforts except for some continuing exploration through joint ventures with car companies that have so far produced nothing notable.

And, even though Tesla now calls itself a software company and is viewed by many to set the current standard in automotive user interfaces, my first Tesla was a 2015 model that had chronic software problems. That was four years after the Model S debut. So it's a bit early in Lucid's existence to pronounce it failed -- or even unduly struggling -- on the software front.

In any case, Rawlinson has made it clear that Lucid is now ramping up the focus on software, including staffing and organization changes.

 

[Buffalo Bob]

I'm reflecting on my own post now. Pairing is a Bluetooth thing. Remote wakeup is an Internet thing.

The more I think about this, it seems the glitch appears when trying to wake the car up when it is both in Bluetooth range and WiFi range.I can't prove that, but my software gut tells me the car is getting conflicting messages and is getting confused.

Does anyone have input to Lucid to alert them to this? Fixing this would result in more happy customers.

There is a wi-fi connect issue that has cropped up since 2.5.X. Try going into the connections tab in your car, and toggle wi-fi completely off. Then, get yourself a fair distance from the car, and try to wake it again. I find that the car will wake readily if only using the car's SIM card, but will not when both the wi-fi and the SIM card are toggled on. I have a Pixel phone, but I believe that some iPhone users have had this issue, as well. Please report back. If it works, I'll dig up some wi-fi settings that I believe can fix the problem. (I can't use them, as I do not park in a private garage.)

BTW, I have used Pixel phones for a long time, and I have never had one randomly stop working in the background.

 

[Bobby]

I'm reflecting on my own post now. Pairing is a Bluetooth thing. Remote wakeup is an Internet thing.

The more I think about this, it seems the glitch appears when trying to wake the car up when it is both in Bluetooth range and WiFi range.I can't prove that, but my software gut tells me the car is getting conflicting messages and is getting confused.

Does anyone have input to Lucid to alert them to this? Fixing this would result in more happy customers.

Leave WiFi off in the car.

 

[tonybot]

There is a wi-fi connect issue that has cropped up since 2.5.X. Try going into the connections tab in your car, and toggle wi-fi completely off. Then, get yourself a fair distance from the car, and try to wake it again. I find that the car will wake readily if only using the car's SIM card, but will not when both the wi-fi and the SIM card are toggled on. I have a Pixel phone, but I believe that some iPhone users have had this issue, as well. Please report back. If it works, I'll dig up some wi-fi settings that I believe can fix the problem. (I can't use them, as I do not park in a private garage.)

BTW, I have used Pixel phones for a long time, and I have never had one randomly stop working in the background.

Agree about the WiFi issues. It also prompts me again for the password after entering a good password or when I attempt to connect to a saved network. Better to keep WiFi off if one has a a signal. In my case ATT is very spotty inside my garage.

 

[Science]

Sorry I misinterpreted your post as a waking up (unlocking) issue. Try turning the wifi off on your car and see if that helps.

Hi hy.

That's an interesting suggestion. But if we do that, will we still get Over The Air (OTA) updates?

 

[Science]

Leave WiFi off in the car.

Thanks Bobby. You're the second person to recommend that. Do you know if we will still get Over The Air (OTA) updates?

 

[Science]

Agree about the WiFi issues. It also prompts me again for the password after entering a good password or when I attempt to connect to a saved network. Better to keep WiFi off if one has a a signal. In my case ATT is very spotty inside my garage.

Thanks Tonybot. It seems like we are zeroing in on a workaround.

 

[Science]

There are few products in the world outside the aerospace industry that are more complex to engineer, design, and build than automobiles. And, as Peter Rawlinson explained in the recent "SavageGeese" inaugural episode of "Why It's Hard to Make Cars", Lucid had limited resources for bringing a new car to market, especially one that aspired to advance the state of the art in EV propulsion and space packaging (which it did in spades).

I think comparing Lucid's early software efforts to what companies such as Google and Meta have done is a bit unfair, given that they have attempted nothing as complex as engineering and building a car while pursuing their software efforts. In fact, resource-rich juggernauts such as Google and Apple have abandoned their automotive efforts except for some continuing exploration through joint ventures with car companies that have so far produced nothing notable.

And, even though Tesla now calls itself a software company and is viewed by many to set the current standard in automotive user interfaces, my first Tesla was a 2015 model that had chronic software problems. That was four years after the Model S debut. So it's a bit early in Lucid's existence to pronounce it failed -- or even unduly struggling -- on the software front.

In any case, Rawlinson has made it clear that Lucid is now ramping up the focus on software, including staffing and organization changes.

Thanks hmp. We are in violent agreement.

We had similar experiences with early software on the Model S. In other posts I noted that I am a car owner and shareholder. We are rooting for Lucid to succeed.

I was not aware that Rawlinson is now focusing on software and that he made public statements about it. Had I known that, I probably would have been less harsh. But please don't misunderstand. I never said Lucid failed. We are early adopters and we know what comes with that territory.

This has been a productive dialog for us. On some of these posts we've been reading about kibuki dances that users would have to perform to either unlock or wake up the car. I understand that those posts are not official comments from Lucid. But it would be helpful if Lucid monitored these forums and acknowledged the problems. On the other hand, we used to wish that Tesla did the same thing; they didn't.

 

[Science]

There is a wi-fi connect issue that has cropped up since 2.5.X. Try going into the connections tab in your car, and toggle wi-fi completely off. Then, get yourself a fair distance from the car, and try to wake it again. I find that the car will wake readily if only using the car's SIM card, but will not when both the wi-fi and the SIM card are toggled on. I have a Pixel phone, but I believe that some iPhone users have had this issue, as well. Please report back. If it works, I'll dig up some wi-fi settings that I believe can fix the problem. (I can't use them, as I do not park in a private garage.)

BTW, I have used Pixel phones for a long time, and I have never had one randomly stop working in the background.

Buffalo: I think what you're suggesting fits the data. I will give it a try. On the other hand, I'm not so sure that we didn't have this problem before 2.5.x.

 

[hmp10]

I was not aware that Rawlinson is now focusing on software and that he made public statements about it.

It was an interesting interview with some things about Rawlinson's time and resources at Tesla of which I had not been aware. (I also thought he left before the Model X development got seriously underway, but I was wrong. So it turns out that Rawlinson oversaw the engineering not only of the Model S but the Model X, in line with doing first a sedan and now an SUV at Lucid, with some reviewers calling each car at Lucid the 2.0 versions of what he did at Tesla.)

I think it was in this interview that Rawlinson said he was now having software development report directly to him in order to put more focus on it.

Here's the link if you're interested:

 

[Science]

It was an interesting interview with some things about Rawlinson's time and resources at Tesla of which I had not been aware. (I also thought he left before the Model X development got seriously underway, but I was wrong. So it turns out that Rawlinson oversaw the engineering not only of the Model S but the Model X, in line with doing first a sedan and now an SUV at Lucid, with some reviewers calling each car at Lucid the 2.0 versions of what he did at Tesla.)

I think it was in this interview that Rawlinson said he was now having software development report directly to him in order to put more focus on it.

Here's the link if you're interested:

Thanks again Buffalo!