Brand new Lucid owner, serious range concerns after first trip 2025 AT

[BS8899]

Just a different perspective. How many of you want to stop before Lucid needs to charge? In my case it is max 3hrs and 70mph.

Good point.....until now, I've been pushing the range on my Lucid to the max. A few months ago, I drove from Sausalito to AZ. My longest non-stop leg was from Sausalito to Santa Clarita, 5hr 30min @~70mph. I had to slow down (to about 60mph or a bit lower) transiting the Tejon Pass. I made it (370 miles total on this leg) to Santa Clarita and charged there. With the Lucid's charging curve dropping off quickly, honestly, I will do differently next time and make a couple more stops. Point is, the long range without a flat(er) charging curve is somewhat pointless.

 

[Lucken]

I share many of @kort6776's concerns and frustrations. And I also think Lucid can do better in their communications and guidance regarding the interpretation of the EPA rating, which is done under lab conditions on a dynamometer and not representative of real-life situations.

Some owners/moderators took the position that this is an "EPA Problem", not a Lucid problem. Bit reality is:
> Lucid's claimed (EPA) range is not achievable under realistic highway roadtrip conditions. Yes, I am aware of the OoS 70mph test. The deviation (between Lucid's EPA claim) and my AGT is about 25-30% in moderate weather on multiple AZ/CA 780 mile roadtrips.
> the suggestion that "ALL EVs have the same deviation vs their EPA rated ranges" is simply not true. Various reviewer testing suggest Lucid and Tesla deviate more than other EVs. Some EVs exceeded their EPA rated ranges.
> is the Lucid AGT still the leader in range? Probably, but barely....the range margin vs other EVs are MUCH smaller than you think in real life driving.
> are there EVs that actually meet or exceed their rated EPA range? The answer is YES. I regularly drive the same route (I-10/I-5) from/to AZ to CA (780 miles) on my Lucid AGT and my Rivian R1S. The Lucid is about 25% off its EPA rated range and the Rivian meets and slightly exceeds (say 5-10%) of its rated range. As cited by other reviewers, some German EVs routinely exceed their EPA rated ranges. Not every EV is tested to the same EPA cycles as Lucid's.
> there is a new EPA testing cycle. I have not studied it and don't have an option. Other forum readers who are much smarter than I can weigh-in. Should Lucid revise its range/efficiency specs?

I won't repeat all the back-and forth of this topic. I'd suggest the interested readers go read this thread.

I

Thread 'Real world range touring 19 inch wheels'

May 11, 2024

Can anyone share real world range for touring with 19 inch wheels either from personal experience or link to a test ?
Thanks !

• ISOI
• Replies: 193
• Forum: Efficiency and Mileage

Because BMW uses the other EPA testing protocol, I easily and consistently beat the EPA #s with my i4. With our new i5, although temps are now cold, I can see the same will be true of the i5. Every manufacturer has the choice as to which method they use. Do you want to look good on paper or look good in the realm of real world ownership? Frankly I prefer the method BMW and some others have taken, but I can see the rationale for looking good on paper.

 

[kort6776]

You are absolutely correct but the same would apply to a BMW M car, Mercedes AMG car, Cadillac Blackwing, etc. I doubt very many of these cars are regularly driven at or near the speed limit and I doubt that the owners actually get anything near the EPA scores.

I think what is important is what each vehicle gets in realistic testing for the vehicles (e.g., compare the Lucid Air, Porsche Taycan, BMW I5, Mercedes EQS, etc. at the same environmental conditions). Does the Lucid Air still get sufficiently higher range than the rest of the cars? And then add in some kind of factor for speed of charging which in many ways is as important as total range (and will eventually be even more important as the number of fast chargers increases).

my only experience in the cars you mentioned is with the taycan, and my taycan usually returned or exceeded both EPA ratings and the guess o meter. My complaint isn't about the lucid not being able to get close to the EPA estimates it is that new owners are made aware that they more than likely will not see the range that Lucid heavily promotes. I knew full well not to expect 515 miles on my GT but I was a bit surprised when the actual ranges came in the mid 420's of range.

 

[kort6776]

Agreed, but really what else should Lucid advertise? “You’re never gonna actually see 512 miles, but hey, we can legally brag that our unrealistic mileage estimates are larger than everyone else can legally say theirs are!”

isn't that exactly the current situation? I remember how the sales guy's face puckered when I mentioned that I'd be happy seeing 450 miles of range in "real world" driving.

 

[BS8899]

my only experience in the cars you mentioned is with the taycan, and my taycan usually returned or exceeded both EPA ratings and the guess o meter. My complaint isn't about the lucid not being able to get close to the EPA estimates it is that new owners are made aware that they more than likely will not see the range that Lucid heavily promotes. I knew full well not to expect 515 miles on my GT but I was a bit surprised when the actual ranges came in the mid 420's of range.

Exactly! You are luck to get 420 miles.

 

[Blue Lectroid]

Because BMW uses the other EPA testing protocol, I easily and consistently beat the EPA #s with my i4. With our new i5, although temps are now cold, I can see the same will be true of the i5. Every manufacturer has the choice as to which method they use. Do you want to look good on paper or look good in the realm of real world ownership? Frankly I prefer the method BMW and some others have taken, but I can see the rationale for looking good on paper.

Yet which car has more range? Your BMWs or the Lucid? Does it really matter what the stated ranges are? The Lucid goes farther, right?

 

[Lucken]

Yet which car has more range? Your BMWs or the Lucid? Does it really matter what the stated ranges are? The Lucid goes farther, right?

In a sense it does for many people and you can see it on these pages. Owners tend to feel good when you’re often beating EPA #s. Likewise, some owners don’t feel so good when you’re not matching EPA #s or even coming close for that matter. It’s kind of like the feeling you get when you feel you got more (or less) for your money than you expected.

In my case we have different cars for different purposes. In actuality either car has more than enough range for us.

 

[Blue Lectroid]

Exactly! You are luck to get 420 miles.

I have not yet driven my Air GT other than on an 40 minute test drive and yet even from that I am confident that in moderate temps (not until Spring here) I will easily be able to get EPA level numbers. I drive a mix of highway and around town, do not have a lead foot and am very experienced at driving an EV. I will report back in Spring and gladly eat humble pie if i am wrong.

 

[Blue Lectroid]

In a sense it does for many people and you can see it on these pages. Owners tend to feel good when you’re often beating EPA #s. Likewise, some owners don’t feel so good when you’re not matching EPA #s or even coming close for that matter. It’s kind of like the feeling you get when you feel you got more (or less) for your money than you expected.

In my case we have different cars for different purposes. In actuality either car has more than enough range for us.

But the Lucid CAN get 500+ miles of range. No other car can. The fact that folks choose to drive in ways that means they cannot get that range has absolutely nothing to do with Lucid and everything to do with personal decisions. If you drive all highway at 75mph, you’re not gonna come close to 512 miles. You made a choice. Drive 65-70, don’t accelerate or brake overly aggressively and you can achieve those kinds of numbers. Simple. And, if someone is buying a car like a Lucid and doesn’t take the time to learn about EV driving and EV range? Well I’m sorry that is that person’s fault, not Lucid’s (or Tesla’s or Hyundai’s, etc. for that matter).

Bottom line, driven reasonably the Lucid AGT has the longest EV range of any car in the world. Period.

 

[bassem]

I believe I am with the Lucid owners & enthusiasts forum, can we practice a little more civility?

Ya I admit my right foot has issues achieving the stated range but my Lucid delivers an outstanding performance everyday and every night !

The transition to EV’s is a challenge as we push beyond the ice folk, I am proud to be in my tenth year !

Round of coffees on me or any other beverage of your fancy !

 

[fisheral]

On my last 55 mile drive I got 0.93 mi/kWh despite staying in smooth with high regen and a light foot. Winter is absolutely slaughtering my range.

But for some reason winter is barely touching the efficiency/range on my wife’s Subaru Solterra.

 

[victoryroad]

I humbly suggest that one use SOC and their particular efficiency (kWh/mile) to gauge remaining range. In two years I have not once relied upon mileage remaining values. And, yes ambient temperature and driving style/conditions can deliver a wide range of efficiency. A lot of around town driving=lower efficiency, steady speed highway=higher efficiency, and heavy right foot=low efficiency.

 

[Adnillien]

To my mind, it would have been marketing malpractice not to choose the 5-cycle method that Tesla was using, because Lucid was going to be scored against Tesla in the minds of most buyers and a wide swath of the automotive press, anyway.

This is especially true of the Air Touring that has only slight more range than the Model S using the 5 cycle test. There is no way Lucid should advertise the Touring with less EPA range than the model S when it has slightly more.

 

[hmp10]

In a sense it does for many people and you can see it on these pages. Owners tend to feel good when you’re often beating EPA #s.

True, and it's what makes marketing something of an art instead of a science.

My first entry into the industrial world was at a GE armaments factory in Burlington, VT. It was a unionized plant that paid the highest wages for factory work in the region. On the other side of town was a new Digital Equipment computer factory. The union in the GE plant used to complain constantly that Digital had a cafeteria that provided free meals, sponsored softball teams with beer nights, etc., while GE left their employees on their own for such things. It happened that one of my apartment mates worked on the assembly line at Digital and got me a copy of their pay scales. I found that GE paid about 40% more for equivalent jobs. When I asked the local union president why employees wouldn't prefer getting paid much higher wages and deciding for themselves what to do with the money, we had the first of many interesting discussions I was to have in my career about how the minds of employees work.

Me -- I'd take the extra money every time and decide for myself where to eat and play ball. And, for the same reason, I'd take the car with the longest actual range for the way I drive, no matter what some other car did against some arbitrary test metric.

 

[BS8899]

This is especially true of the Air Touring that has only slight more range than the Model S using the 5 cycle test. There is no way Lucid should advertise the Touring with less EPA range than the model S when it has slightly more.

But aren't BOTH car s'(Model S and Lucid Touring) EPA ranges exaggerated when compared with what is achievable in real life road tripping? So, where does that get all of us?

As noted by many, the German manufacturers stayed away from this charade and their vehicles generally met/exceeded their EPA range claims. Yes, they still use EPA ranges, but different cycles, and they often meet and exceed the benchmark.

In the I-90 Surge, even if the Lucid didn't run out of charge, the Lucid AGT would most likely come in behind the Ionque and the Tesla Model 3. What gives?! I know it is more than just range, it is also about the charging curve etc.. In the end, the only argument is "because Tesla is using the same EPA cycles".

My Rivian R1S, which is far less efficient than either the Tesla S or the Lucid AGT because of its size and weight, towing capacity, off-road capabilities, etc., consistently delivers its EPA efficiency rating and slightly more. In contrast, my AGT consistently misses its EPA rating by 25%-30% on the same trips, same speed, same terrain.

Should I feel better just because the AGT has a higher EPA rating that's almost never achievable in real life driving? I agree it is a nice driving car. But it is at best average when it comes to efficiency. OK, you might say it is the most efficient car with over 1,000HP!

If the Gravity has the same baggage, its realizable range would be ~320 miles with good weather, no wind, and no elevation change?!

 

[hmp10]

As noted by many, the German manufacturers stayed away from this charade and their vehicles generally met/exceeded their EPA range claims.

Yet in their home markets, they advertise range based on WLTP testing which typically yields results about 22% higher than EPA range ratings. In fact, the Mercedes EQS was first advertised in the U.S. showing its WLTP range only.

 

[BS8899]

Yet in their home markets, they advertise range based on WLTP testing which typically yields results about 22% higher than EPA range ratings. In fact, the Mercedes EQS was first advertised in the U.S. showing its WLTP range only.

Fair point! I don't know why@

 

[Lucken]

But the Lucid CAN get 500+ miles of range. No other car can. The fact that folks choose to drive in ways that means they cannot get that range has absolutely nothing to do with Lucid and everything to do with personal decisions. If you drive all highway at 75mph, you’re not gonna come close to 512 miles. You made a choice. Drive 65-70, don’t accelerate or brake overly aggressively and you can achieve those kinds of numbers. Simple. And, if someone is buying a car like a Lucid and doesn’t take the time to learn about EV driving and EV range? Well I’m sorry that is that person’s fault, not Lucid’s (or Tesla’s or Hyundai’s, etc. for that matter).

Bottom line, driven reasonably the Lucid AGT has the longest EV range of any car in the world. Period.

I think you’re missing my point or I’m not expressing it well. Sure you can meet Lucid’s EPA rating, but it’s not easy as you’ll eventually find out. For cars like my BMW and several other German makes, it’s actually quite easy. It’s not just about the fact that the Lucid ‘can’ outdistance other EVs and that becomes very obvious when you’ve been reading posts here for as long as some of us. As an example, my i4 had a stated range far less than my Lucid, but guess what, in actual day to day usage there was far less of a difference between the i4 & the AWD Lucid Pure than it appeared on paper.

It’s not a big deal to me since both my cars provide adequate range, so you won’t find me complaining about this now or in the past. However that doesn’t make this any less of a valid point of contention for many.

 

[Negan1000]

I humbly suggest that one use SOC and their particular efficiency (kWh/mile) to gauge remaining range. In two years I have not once relied upon mileage remaining values. And, yes ambient temperature and driving style/conditions can deliver a wide range of efficiency. A lot of around town driving=lower efficiency, steady speed highway=higher efficiency, and heavy right foot=low efficiency.

Lucid should display SOC at arrival instead of miles which is not real.

 

[Blue Lectroid]

I think you’re missing my point or I’m not expressing it well. Sure you can meet Lucid’s EPA rating, but it’s not easy as you’ll eventually find out. For cars like my BMW and several other German makes, it’s actually quite easy. It’s not just about the fact that the Lucid ‘can’ outdistance other EVs and that becomes very obvious when you’ve been reading posts here for as long as some of us. As an example, my i4 had a stated range far less than my Lucid, but guess what, in actual day to day usage there was far less of a difference between the i4 & the AWD Lucid Pure than it appeared on paper.

It’s not a big deal to me since both my cars provide adequate range, so you won’t find me complaining about this now or in the past. However that doesn’t make this any less of a valid point of contention for many.

I now understand what you were saying. Thanks for restating!