$7500 Tax Credit

[Lucken]

I spent 4 years in D.C. while in residency. Say no to lobbyists, really?

There are a few remaining in Congress that still have a backbone. Admittedly very few.

BTW, FWIW, Musk is on record saying Tesla doesn’t need the tax break and has encouraged Congress not to pass the bill. However if you don’t believe him, and I fully understand why you might not, his past lobbying efforts on behalf of Tesla have yielded nothing over the last couple of years during which Tesla has been negatively impacted by the 200,000 vehicle limit.

 

[hmp10]

Pulled this from another thread. This may not be "Congress'" fault. Seems like Tesla and GM cried foul and lobbyist rule.

If you look at this from a policy perspective, it makes sense. If the goal is to encourage the transition from ICE to EV vehicles, it really makes no sense to exclude vehicles from the credit just because their manufacturers have made desirable EV products that have sold well thus far.

While I'll be glad to take the $7,500 credit for the Lucid, I really don't have a problem with biasing the credits to encourage purchases more at the mass market end of the spectrum where the transition to EVs will have the most impact. (While I have griped about possibly missing the credit if my car doesn't come by year end, it's more about Lucid's failure to disclose that color choice would affect production date. The tax credit never figured in my original decision to reserve a Lucid, just as it didn't figure in my decision to buy the Tesla Plaid over a Porsche Taycan which, unlike Tesla, still qualified for the credit.) People who buy $140K+ cars are buying because they want the car, not because they get a tax credit for it.

 

[Lucken]

If you look at this from a policy perspective, it makes sense. If the goal is to encourage the transition from ICE to EV vehicles, it really makes no sense to exclude vehicles from the credit just because their manufacturers have made desirable EV products that have sold well thus far.

While I'll be glad to take the $7,500 credit for the Lucid, I really don't have a problem with biasing the credits to encourage purchases more at the mass market end of the spectrum where the transition to EVs will have the most impact. (While I have griped about possibly missing the credit if my car doesn't come by year end, it's more about Lucid's failure to disclose that color choice would affect production date. The tax credit never figured in my original decision to reserve a Lucid, just as it didn't figure in my decision to buy the Tesla Plaid over a Porsche Taycan which, unlike Tesla, still qualified for the credit.) People who buy $140K+ cars are buying because they want the car, not because they get a tax credit for it.

It also makes no sense from the standpoint of placing a dollar cap on the MSRP. If it dissuades some from buying high ticket EVs and pushes them back to gas guzzling ICE vehicles, then that thwarts, to at least a degree, the transition to EVs.

 

[hmp10]

It also makes no sense from the standpoint of placing a dollar cap on the MSRP. If it dissuades some from buying high ticket EVs and pushes them back to gas guzzling ICE vehicles, then that thwarts, to at least a degree, the transition to EVs.

I guess I don't really see a tax credit much figuring into the decision of whether to buy a very expensive EV or a very expensive ICE. The tax credits, though a welcome windfall, have had nothing to do with which cars I have purchased over the past six years. I think it is much more an issue for people working with tighter budget constraints.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I guess I don't really see a tax credit much figuring into the decision of whether to buy a very expensive EV or a very expensive ICE. The tax credits, though a welcome windfall, have had nothing to do with which cars I have purchased over the past six years. I think it is much more an issue for people working with tighter budget constraints.

I guess this brings me to the question I asked in the chat during the Inside EV podcast. Why are ICE manufacturers burdening the customer with the cost difference of the EV version anyway? Seems like to say "we offered EV but people didn't buy them." Tax credit shouldn't be the way to even out the cost.

 

[Lucken]

I guess I don't really see a tax credit much figuring into the decision of whether to buy a very expensive EV or a very expensive ICE. The tax credits, though a welcome windfall, have had nothing to do with which cars I have purchased over the past six years. I think it is much more an issue for people working with tighter budget constraints.

I agree for the most part. But even if it’s 2% of the high end buyers, why alienate them? I seem to recall reading 1 or 2 posters here saying it might be a factor.

ICE cars are already less expensive than comparable EVs. Add an additional $7,500 from a tax break that was previously available and you may now be looking at a comparable EV that’s over $10,000 more than a similar ICE vehicle.

We’re now into price differentials that even a few well-healed buyers may say, ‘Nope, I’ll get that ICE vehicle I’ve been driving for years. No real incentive to experiment with a car & tech I’m not familiar with’.

Let’s put it this way, price caps can’t help furthering the transition to EVs.

 

[changinator]

I guess I don't really see a tax credit much figuring into the decision of whether to buy a very expensive EV or a very expensive ICE. The tax credits, though a welcome windfall, have had nothing to do with which cars I have purchased over the past six years. I think it is much more an issue for people working with tighter budget constraints.

The tax credits have a considerable impact on whether reservation holders for the Touring and Pure trims, since people who order those instead of the Dream or GT are typically relatively "people working with tighter budget constraints." And the majority of reservation holders are likely either a Touring or Pure trim reservation holder.

I have a Touring reservation at the moment, but may consider going down to a Pure or looking at other manufacturers models depending if BBB passes as it stands currently and/or if the current tax incentive drops. Most of my colleagues are on a similar boat as well.

And ultimately, it will likely have a considerable impact on Lucid as an automobile manufacturer fledgling and a stock $LCID if even a minor fraction of reservation holders cancel.

Although in my opinion, BBB will or should not pass as it currently stands. It essentially only guarantees one manufacturer will get the full $12,500 tax rebate initially, which is for the GM Bolt. This would create an unfair precedence favoring one company over all others.

 

[WildRide47]

The tax credits have a considerable impact on whether reservation holders for the Touring and Pure trims, since people who order those instead of the Dream or GT are typically relatively "people working with tighter budget constraints." And the majority of reservation holders are likely either a Touring or Pure trim reservation holder.

I have a Touring reservation at the moment, but may consider going down to a Pure or looking at other manufacturers models depending if BBB passes as it stands currently and/or if the current tax incentive drops. Most of my colleagues are on a similar boat as well.

And ultimately, it will likely have a considerable impact on Lucid as an automobile manufacturer fledgling and a stock $LCID if even a minor fraction of reservation holders cancel.

Although in my opinion, BBB will or should not pass as it currently stands. It essentially only guarantees one manufacturer will get the full $12,500 tax rebate initially, which is for the GM Bolt. This would create an unfair precedence favoring one company over all others.

Let's hope that Joe Manchin of West Virginia stands firm.

 

[Lucken]

Let's hope that Joe Manchin of West Virginia stands firm.

If past is prologue, don't hold your breath.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Let's hope that Joe Manchin of West Virginia stands firm.

Haven't been following it, what's he against?

 

[WildRide47]

Haven't been following it, what's he against?

The Democratic 'Build Back America" bill that Biden wants to pass into law. This law will restrict the $7,500 tax credit to sedans that cost less than $55,000 and trucks up to $80,000. It also eliminates any tax credit for people making over a certain amount. I forget the exact amount, but feel it is something like $200,000+ This is why hmp10 and other DE holders are so concerned about receiving their cars before the end of the year. If this bill gets passed into law, any cars received after Dec.31st will not be available to receive the $7,500 credit. Joe Manchin is the only Democrat holding up this bill to be passed. Without his approval, the Democrats are one vote shy of passing this bill into law.

 

[Lucken]

Haven't been following it, what's he against?

He's against the BBB plan along with Kyrsten Sinema. Let's hope they don't fold, but I don't have much hope.

 

[WildRide47]

He's against the BBB plan along with Kyrsten Sinema. Let's hope they don't fold, but I don't have much hope.

From what I have been reading the Democrats have gotten Kyrsten Sinema to vote yes. I believe they have made certain promises to her to get her vote. If what I am reading is correct, then Joe Manchin is the only one holding the dam back

 

[Lucken]

Then good luck with that. I hear the fat lady warming up in the bullpen.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

The BBB is only for tax credits on EVs? I thought it included charging stations?

 

[Adnillien]

He's against the BBB plan along with Kyrsten Sinema. Let's hope they don't fold, but I don't have much hope.

As a congress woman for Arizona, Kyrsten Sinema has a good reason not to support it since it would hurt the Lucid factory and Arizona employment. I called her office today but her office cold not tell me if she plans to vote against it or not. The only thing I could do is voice my opposition.

 

[Lucken]

The BBB is only for tax credits on EVs? I thought it included charging stations?

If you can think of something, anything, its funding is included.

 

[Adnillien]

If you can think of something, anything, its funding is included.

It also includes removing the cap on state and local tax (SALT) deductions. A big boon for the very wealthy. Overall it is a bad bill even if it includes support for charging infrastructure.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

It also includes removing the cap on state and local tax (SALT) deductions. A big boon for the very wealthy. Overall it is a bad bill even if it includes support for charging infrastructure.

I guess it's hard to compromise when there's hardly anyone left in the moderate space.

 

[Sandvinsd]

The BBB is only for tax credits on EVs? I thought it included charging stations?

EV charging was in that infrastructure bill that Biden signed. This Build Back Venezuela plan is mostly welfare give away.