2.4.x OTA

[SaaSManKS]

What isn't sustainable about this? Pretty sure the expectations are just unreasonable. Just about every consumer product that exists which gets updates gets them in a staggered fashion, sometimes over time periods of many months or a year. Would you rather they just blast it out to everyone and potentially brick your car?

Stop being so impatient. It'll get there. Your car is still working just fine on 2.3.10.

I was trying to be somewhat uplifting about it, That being said, This release model isn’t sustainable if they can’t deploy an OS for ~15-20k cars that are all the same models but variant options in a scalable fashion in a month, and you’re telling me that’s not concerning? I promise you someone at corp is focused on this, and if they aren’t then how can you expect them to succeed?? I’m not talking about being impatient for this release I’m talking about the PM-ing of the entire project. Jim Farley said this was one of their biggest problems when they did a OS update they had to validate it with +200 vendors which was a nightmare for them; aka unsustainable. This is exactly what gave me faith in the company over others was they said they were vertically integrated, I already said it could be an exception given the set of new features and apparently new hardware it’s engaging but you can’t argue that this can be the norm going forward. Some soccer mom in Ohio who is a target customer for the suv isn’t going to want to hear about technical glitches in a release as to why she can’t use her car.

 

[wa_lucid]

Were you really in HA in the picture? It says Adaptive Cruise, but I could be mistaken in the subtleties of how things work.

No, I was not. But that is also my point. This picture is taken on a highway (WA-520) where HA is available. It won't allow me to engage in this state.

 

[rfc805]

The soccer mom in Ohio being the target customer won't be worrying about how long it takes to roll out a software update. They'll never even know they were waiting.

Their software leadership was recently replaced. They're a startup. Expect things like this. The way you deal with this in a long term plan is to take your time early on to work out issues, instead of just plowing forward and not dealing with it.

Your expectation that they move forward rapidly but also work on a long term process are not reasonable. They're antithetical to each other.

 

[SaaSManKS]

The soccer mom in Ohio being the target customer won't be worrying about how long it takes to roll out a software update. They'll never even know they were waiting.

Their software leadership was recently replaced. They're a startup. Expect things like this. The way you deal with this in a long term plan is to take your time early on to work out issues, instead of just plowing forward and not dealing with it.

Your expectation that they move forward rapidly but also work on a long term process are not reasonable. They're antithetical to each other.

you’re missing entirely what I’m saying, if they can’t roll out an OTA for call it 20k cars in a 30 day window what will that look like if they can get to 100k cars on the road? Never said it needs to be quicker but it sure as hell needs to be optimized!

And if you don’t think the soccer mom will know about the OTA’s take a look at some apple forums to see how anxious they are about waiting for apple intelligence in 18.1.

Dude, I’m not upset about the misstep in 2.4.x persay, all I said was it can’t be acceptable going forward. For the sake for the business. Not a single person in ELT would push back on that statement.

 

[rfc805]

They seem to agree with you, which is why they're going slowly and revising it during the release. The point you're missing is the reason it's going slow is because they ARE working on improving it. You seem to be implying it's going slow just for funsies.

 

[SaaSManKS]

looks like you got me!

 

[Kfederico]

They seem to agree with you, which is why they're going slowly and revising it during the release. The point you're missing is the reason it's going slow is because they ARE working on improving it. You seem to be implying it's going slow just for funsies.

I am all for going slower. In the past I had no real issues with the updates. I had a lot of problems with 4.2.x, I am slowly getting them resolved. Better testing would have been appreciated. Mine has camera problems, so that only applies to a few of us, but right now mine seems a bit dangerous to drive. (It can't see the cars to my left, so it may think it is OK to pass and only one time on cruise, it went into acceleration mode when I changed lanes to the right for a shorted line in stopped traffic. I slammed on the brakes a split second before the red collision warning came on.) In that case, I am unsure if my defective side cameras would have made a difference?)

 

[kerplunk]

Getting back to specific issues with 2.4.4

Lost all the ability to activate highway assist features

Proximity lock is wonky. Car doesn't lock until I'm about 3-4 car lengths away.

Multi car visualization not working. My own car is not lined up with the single lane visualization.

Profile selection is wonky. Wife was sitting in the car on her profile I walked up and it automatically switched to my profile. NGL, I am amused it's as if it prefers me.

Service will call in 48 hrs and let me know what needs to be done.

Car is perfectly useable which is good

 

[borski]

Got the 2.2.4 update. I like all of the ideas in it - especially some final confirmation that DDP is actually being developed - and most of the implementation.

For DDP, lane change assist took an exceptionally long time to train and enable. I commuted patiently on the highway to and fro for three days and more than 20 miles or so before it did, luckily shortly before I was about to call customer service.

Then there is HA itself. After the update lane centering became clearly shakier, especially on curves. On many left curves it comes dangerously close to the lane divider (and probably was going to cross it once) that I had to take over. I am baffled that lane protection warning also did not engage in these cases, it clearly should have.

Finally there is the car's perception of its position in the lane. See attached image! I don't know if this is a rendering or modeling bug but I suspect the latter. HA won't engage when this happens which tells the SW really thinks the car is on the divider!

No, I was not. But that is also my point. This picture is taken on a highway (WA-520) where HA is available. It won't allow me to engage in this state.

You almost certainly have a hardware issue in your car that 2.4.4 brought to light. It should not be crossing lanes like that, and mine does not at all. Call service.

 

[HC_79]

So no, I would not advocate for adding sliders and sixteen options for tiny variances that make six customers happy, at the expense of tech debt that will lead to more bugs.

To me, this is the biggest and most helpful update Lucid has put out since 2.0

Agreed and it’s disappointing to see some owners getting so hung up of the removal of Alexa and not being appreciative of the new features that got added. These weren’t just minor updates either they’re were big additions to DDPro.

 

[HC_79]

I was trying to be somewhat uplifting about it, That being said, This release model isn’t sustainable if they can’t deploy an OS for ~15-20k cars that are all the same models but variant options in a scalable fashion in a month, and you’re telling me that’s not concerning? I promise you someone at corp is focused on this, and if they aren’t then how can you expect them to succeed?? I’m not talking about being impatient for this release I’m talking about the PM-ing of the entire project. Jim Farley said this was one of their biggest problems when they did a OS update they had to validate it with +200 vendors which was a nightmare for them; aka unsustainable. This is exactly what gave me faith in the company over others was they said they were vertically integrated, I already said it could be an exception given the set of new features and apparently new hardware it’s engaging but you can’t argue that this can be the norm going forward. Some soccer mom in Ohio who is a target customer for the suv isn’t going to want to hear about technical glitches in a release as to why she can’t use her car.

You do realize the whole OTA model is still within its infancy in the industry? Tesla has had a good lead in this but to just expect it to miraculously work and be flawless every single time is unreasonable.

I bet if this wasn’t available as an OTA then you’d be complaining that you couldn’t get the car booked into a service center for months because they were jammed up having to update everyone’s cars.

A major update like this would require you to go to a dealer if you owned a BMW, Mercedes, VW etc. if you owned an Audi you’d never even get an update like this after purchase so how about you just have a little patience and understand that this whole process is in its infancy and will come with some speed bumps along the way.

 

[SaaSManKS]

You do realize the whole OTA model is still within its infancy in the industry? Tesla has had a good lead in this but to just expect it to miraculously work and be flawless every single time is unreasonable.

I bet if this wasn’t available as an OTA then you’d be complaining that you couldn’t get the car booked into a service center for months because they were jammed up having to update everyone’s cars.

A major update like this would require you to go to a dealer if you owned a BMW, Mercedes, VW etc. if you owned an Audi you’d never even get an update like this after purchase so how about you just have a little patience and understand that this whole process is in its infancy and will come with some speed bumps along the way.

OTA’s have been around forever and lucid has always said they aren’t an auto company they are a tech company who’s vertically integrated.

 

[levsha]

A major update like this would require you to go to a dealer if you owned a BMW, Mercedes, VW etc. if you owned an Audi you’d never even get an update like this after purchase so how about you just have a little patience and understand that this whole process is in its infancy and will come with some speed bumps along the way.

You are comparing the new car model with old cars. New electric Mercedes, VW, Audi, Volvo, Polestar - they all have OTA updates.
My 8 years old model yar ICE car allows me to update the firmware by myself, not OTA however: I can download the new firmware, write it down to a usb stick, put it into the car and wait 20 minutes.

 

[SM_NCarolina]

My automation through Home Assistant is working just fine. I can even use Alexa through it.

(But yes, I see you point. Technically they did take something away. Most users will not miss it. Some will. I’m hopeful LA will blow away Alexa eventually.)

I read about your automation references couple of times in past posts as well. It's there a documentation available for reference. I'm now very curious to experiment with possibilities with LA.

 

[rfc805]

OTA’s have been around forever and lucid has always said they aren’t an auto company they are a tech company who’s vertically integrated.

Uh huh, and of the brands doing significant OTAs - we're talking SDV level OTAs here, how long have they been around? Also, how many of them have had OTAs that bricked portions of their fleet? Your expectations are not reasonable or tied to reality.

Minor OTAs have been around forever, but not to the level we're doing these days. And the vast majority of brands who have done it have really f'ed it up early on.

That's just the first page of results, but, get the picture? Perhaps this is a thing which is still new and still hard.

And this is without even going into the failed updates which were aborted as OTAs entirely and the entire lines of vehicles had to go to a dealership for an update fix (My Volvo XC90 was one of these)

 

[kae02]

A couple troubleshooting ideas for LCA:
1. be sure you have Dream Drive Pro
2. Logo reset
3. Be sure LCA is turned on in the Dream Drive menu
4. For calibration drive using HA for 10-30 minutes on a highway/freeway, ideally in the middle lane of a three lane road.

Thanks. Yesterday it worked for me on my way from PA to NJ. LCA is awesome. I think Lucid has taken multiple steps forward in right direction with this new update.

Congratulations to their Development and Product teams for a great job!

Today on my way back, LCA didn't work at all. It was just drizzling in NJ but HA was working beautifully. It didn't rain in PA, HA still working but LCA didn't. What are the sensors which LCA uses which are different than HA. Next time I'll try to clean them before starting trip.

 

[SaaSManKS]

@rfc805 I have the internet too! This is what I found:

The concept of over-the-air (OTA) updates for devices has been around for decades, but its widespread implementation and success in the tech industry really took off in the early 2000s.

Here's a brief timeline:

• Early 2000s: OTA updates started gaining popularity with devices like PDAs and early smartphones. Companies like Palm and Nokia were pioneers in this area.
• Mid-2000s: The rise of smartphones and the App Store revolutionized the way we interact with technology. OTA updates became essential for delivering new features, bug fixes, and security patches to users.
• Late 2000s and beyond: As the internet of things (IoT) expanded, OTA updates became crucial for keeping various connected devices, from smart home appliances to industrial equipment, updated and secure.

Today, OTA updates are a standard feature for most connected devices, from smartphones and tablets to smart TVs and even cars. They allow manufacturers to continuously improve their products and provide users with the latest features and security enhancements.

Ok, we aren't getting it...Those are legacy auto makers, which Lucid has repeatedly stated they are not, OTA's have literally been around for decades, I'm not trying to make this as ugly as this is turning. I'm sorry that you feel so strongly against my views, but that doesn't mean what I'm saying is wrong.

I don't even think I get on the highway twice a month, I didn't even want DDP, they told me I had to buy it at the time I bought my car if I wanted to get my car then. However, I am having GPS issues that are affecting my car, and the tech said they will be fixed with this update so I am waiting on it from that perspective. I'm not degrading the leadership; but again, I certainly don't think anyone on that team is thinking "ya this was a good/ok launch" a spade is a spade is all I'm saying.

 

[kae02]

Just wanted to chime in that I’ve been driving around with 2.4.3 and it’s been excellent for me. Zero issues with cameras, glitches, CarPlay, etc. Lane changes work great. Car does a better job of handling sharper curves (though it’s still not perfect.) Lucid Assistant works fine for my needs. I asked it to turn down the fan speed on the driver’s side, and it knew what I meant. Gave me a weather report. I’m sure It’ll be able to do more soon. (Not a fan of the voice, though.)

I have an early Touring, for those who don’t know.

To me, this is the biggest and most helpful update Lucid has put out since 2.0. So kudos to the team. I know some are experiencing issues with hardware and other glitches. I do hope the team gets to the bottom of those soon, and I understand your frustration. Just know, not all Airs are experiencing these issues.

For those wondering why Lucid “can’t just” do this or that, you are demonstrating a serious lack of understanding of just how much testing goes into each and every tiny change in this car’s software. It’s an incredibly complex web of systems that handle far more than turning cameras off or on, or switching radio stations. The whole car is controlled by software. And every change, every “option” adds to the complexity. If it were me making decisions about adding this or that, I’d be pushing for keeping all features as simple and maintainable as possible.

So no, I would not advocate for adding sliders and sixteen options for tiny variances that make six customers happy, at the expense of tech debt that will lead to more bugs.

Software is opinionated. You make sensible default decisions where you can. You add options only when you truly can’t find a default that would please 80% of your customers. The “nice to have” options come much later, when your full feature set is well established and working flawlessly.

I’m excited with what the team has accomplished in just a few short years. And there’s no sign they are letting up.

I think it will Lucid if they can adopt a product feature request and voting mechanism. Many software companies do that. Like how Microsoft does it for their Power BI. Something similar to this https://ideas.fabric.microsoft.com/ where customers can create ideas, other customers can vote and then based on votes, Lucid can review and provide comments whether it can be on roadmap or not. I like how MS does that in a most transparent manner as possible. Again , just a suggestion to @mcr16 or others from Lucid in this forum who are watching this thread.

 

[Haggy]

Although I enjoy driving the car myself, I decided to give Highway Assist under 2.4.4 a try yesterday in a light rain. It was very smooth, very natural and, most importantly, very uneventful. In fact it felt as if I was driving the car. To me that’s the best testimonial, natural and not artificial. What’s also great is that unlike my 2017 MS’ ‘autopilot’, it hasn’t tried to kill ne. Sure the nags are still there if you’re not applying a bit of torque to the wheel, but that’s easy to avoid.

All in all, I’ve had no glitches with 2.4.4 thus far, with all cameras working as before the update. Having access to Home Link while backing was great and now I can actually put the remote opener back in a drawer. A very nice update!

Lucid won't try to kill you and is more conservative than Autopilot. An advantage is that it changes lanes smoothly, but if there's a situation where it's not changing lanes because it thinks that there's not enough room, such as when a driver is waving you to go ahead but the car thinks it's too close, you can take over the steering and move to the lane yourself without disabling it the way you'd have to with Autopilot. It feels smooth and natural since with the signal already on, it won't try to keep you in the lane. So manual lane changes in that circumstance seem natural.

The nags aren't the same as with Tesla, because a controlled amount of pressure lighter than what Tesla requires works fairly consistently. And if you overdo it, it will move the car a bit within the lane, and move it back when you ease up. But with Tesla, it will disengage. Some people disengage it without realizing it. I don't know how often it happens, but I've read about accidents where people said they were using Autopilot but Tesla insisted that they weren't using it. Either the drivers were lying with nothing to gain from it, or the drivers thought that autosteer was on when it wasn't. With Lucid, it's much harder to turn off the auto steer portion by mistake.

 

[Haggy]

I was trying to be somewhat uplifting about it, That being said, This release model isn’t sustainable if they can’t deploy an OS for ~15-20k cars that are all the same models but variant options in a scalable fashion in a month, and you’re telling me that’s not concerning? I promise you someone at corp is focused on this, and if they aren’t then how can you expect them to succeed?? I’m not talking about being impatient for this release I’m talking about the PM-ing of the entire project. Jim Farley said this was one of their biggest problems when they did a OS update they had to validate it with +200 vendors which was a nightmare for them; aka unsustainable. This is exactly what gave me faith in the company over others was they said they were vertically integrated, I already said it could be an exception given the set of new features and apparently new hardware it’s engaging but you can’t argue that this can be the norm going forward. Some soccer mom in Ohio who is a target customer for the suv isn’t going to want to hear about technical glitches in a release as to why she can’t use her car.

It's not likely that they will have these sorts of problems with most updates though. Unpdates that add new features don't typically start using hardware that wasn't in use or wasn't used for specific purposes before, so it's less likely that software will uncover hardware problems. And if Lucid learned from this, they will be or have added more hardware checking to the install process, to avoid letting the install complete on cars that would have problems.