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V2H Coming Soon

scal_air said:
Well that is a possibility but I don't understand why they would not clarify the situation. When AA was delayed, didn't they say that they were waiting for Google certification?
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They did not, until much, much later. Some of us found out through the proverbial grapevine and disclosed it earlier than Lucid officially did. By the time Lucid announced it, it was an “open secret,” much like this.

scal_air said:
This "soon" platitude for the last 4 years just makes them look bad, IMHO.
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Yeah, I think we all agree on that, including Lucid. I have zero suspicions there is anyone at Lucid thinking “man, V2H should really take a bit longer, it’ll prop up our reputation” :)
 
FWIW Enphase has had both AC and DC bidirectional wall charging stations ready for more than eight months, and are also waiting for standards/regulatory approval.

I had one of their IQ2 AC-bidirectional stations installed last year. I use it nearly every day as a normal charging station. Still waiting for its bidirectional-capable software to be turned on.

Enphase's only corporate mission is grid-connected hardware - they are experts. And still we wait. This is an industry-wide delay, except for a few closed solutions.
 
borski said:
They did not, until much, much later. Some of us found out through the proverbial grapevine and disclosed it earlier than Lucid officially did. By the time Lucid announced it, it was an “open secret,” much like this.


Yeah, I think we all agree on that, including Lucid. I have zero suspicions there is anyone at Lucid thinking “man, V2H should really take a bit longer, it’ll prop up our reputation” :)
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Well, once again, @borski is the cold voice of reason 😂. If they are waiting for the regulatory portion, they should say so. Other companies have no problems doing that but I've beaten this dead horse enough 🤣🤣🤣
 
I'm going to meet with the electrician next week for the installation of LCHC in our new construction townhouse. Sure wish I could discuss V2H hardware at the same time. This was an important part of my justification to buy such an expensive EV. I feel I have been quite patient these past 4 years of ownership ... seriously. What exactly is the hold-up? Why is necessary to be so secretive about where we are, what needs done, and when?

There is no chance to install solar in our new townhouse community but I pay extra for "clean energy" power (probably the Limerick nuclear) and PECO just delivers the electrons. I feel like I am doing my part, but BIG STUPID (talking to you GOP and energy industry) is holding me back. PA has ample coal, gas, oil, wind and nuclear...not so much sunshine. It would be nice to use my AIR to save some electrons for a rainy day. I was thinking, once we are moved-in, to try and convince the wife to give up her Mazda so I can snag a DE-P to use as a mobile storage battery "for the house"... If you think about your LUCID as a mobile storage battery/ back-up battery it starts to make economic sense. What does 110 kWh bank of Tesla wall batteries cost?
If someone could point to the blockage -- who and what -- I have some time to cause trouble for them. It's been too long waiting .
1786626051523.webp

I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore.
 
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Cosmo Cruz said:
I'm going to meet with the electrician next week for the installation of LCHC in our new construction townhouse. Sure wish I could discuss V2H hardware at the same time. This was an important part of my justification to buy such an expensive EV. I feel I have been quite patient these past 4 years of ownership ... seriously. What exactly is the hold-up? Why is necessary to be so secretive about where we are, what needs done, and when?
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As has been discussed, it appears to be regulatory issues. Other companies like Enphase are having similar delays and have not released theirs either.

Cosmo Cruz said:
There is no chance to install solar in our new townhouse community but I pay extra for "clean energy" power (probably the Limerick nuclear) and PECO just delivers the electrons. I feel like I am doing my part, but BIG STUPID (talking to you GOP and energy industry) is holding me back. PA has ample coal, gas, oil, wind and nuclear...not so much sunshine. It would be nice to use my AIR to save some electrons for a rainy day. I was thinking, once we are moved-in, to try and convince the wife to give up her Mazda so I can snag a DE-P to use as a mobile storage battery "for the house"... If you think about your LUCID as a mobile storage battery/ back-up battery it starts to make economic sense. What does 110 kWh bank of Tesla wall batteries cost?
If someone could point to the blockage -- who and what -- I have some time to cause trouble for them. It's been too long waiting .
View attachment 40457
I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore.
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Write a letter to your local congress members.
 
borski said:
As far as I understand, the actual “workings” of it are essentially done, and it’s stuck in regulatory hell.

I do not know that for certain, of course, but that’s my present understanding / reading of the tea leaves.
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I'm puzzled by the "regulatory hell". Grid connected home batteries are already a thing, with multiple vendors offering them for sale. The only thing that seems different about V2H is that the car cannot be hard-wired, but instead has a plug. Not that I'm naive enough to think that regulations are always easy to navigate.
 
TahoeMichael said:
I'm puzzled by the "regulatory hell". Grid connected home batteries are already a thing, with multiple vendors offering them for sale. The only thing that seems different about V2H is that the car cannot be hard-wired, but instead has a plug. Not that I'm naive enough to think that regulations are always easy to navigate.
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The two I know of for V2H:

Since the car contains the inverter: compliance verification to meet UL9741 - the primary safety certifications for bidirectional electric vehicle supply equipment (EVSE), ensuring proper isolation, surge protection, and inverter safety.

Since the car must communicate with the EVSE: verification of operation according to ISO 15118-20, the international standard defining the communication protocols for bidirectional power transfer between the EV and the charger.

We don't know if Lucid is planning for V2G, or just V2H. V2G also requires compliance with IEEE 1547, governing the interconnection and interoperability of distributed energy resources with utility power systems.

But I don't know if there is some very specific holdup with one of these, or something else (state regulatory agencies, etc).
 
DeaneG said:
The two I know of for V2H:

Since the car contains the inverter: compliance verification to meet UL9741 - the primary safety certifications for bidirectional electric vehicle supply equipment (EVSE), ensuring proper isolation, surge protection, and inverter safety.

Since the car must communicate with the EVSE: verification of operation according to ISO 15118-20, the international standard defining the communication protocols for bidirectional power transfer between the EV and the charger.

We don't know if Lucid is planning for V2G, or just V2H. V2G also requires compliance with IEEE 1547, governing the interconnection and interoperability of distributed energy resources with utility power systems.

But I don't know if there is some very specific holdup with one of these, or something else (state regulatory agencies, etc).
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Adding to this, utility companies don’t want to give up their monopoly. They want to make sure regulations are in place to prevent charging your battery when energy prices are low and selling it when it’s high. It’s how NEM 3.0 came about. Solar started eating into their profits.
 
As I watch people rush to stores to buy generators, the following simple question comes to mind:

Why doesn't Lucid put out V2L first? That would use the inverter party of V2G, but make the regulatory approval much, much simpler. Again, why not do this first???
 
Steve181 said:
Why doesn't Lucid put out V2L first? That would use the inverter party of V2G, but make the regulatory approval much, much simpler. Again, why not do this first???
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In a way they already have this with their Vehicle to vehicle charger. One can ‘easily’ build a J1772 receptacle, but the 240V out will not have neutral.
 
How can they add the neutral, if needed? If I buy a $500 Chinese generator from Home Depot, they must have figured out how to do that.
 
Steve181 said:
How can they add the neutral, if needed? If I buy a $500 Chinese generator from Home Depot, they must have figured out how to do that.
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There are many ways to create a neutral. The easiest and safest is with a center tap isolation transformer, but transformers are large and heavy and get larger and heaver the more power you need. The best current alternative is an Autotransformer, which balances the neutral to create a balanced voltage between the 240V. One that is frequently mentioned is from Victron Energy, which also has complete Smart home EV charging stations:
 
Saksak said:
An interesting solution is the Delta Pro battery based “generator.” I wonder if it would work with the range exchange cable.
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It would work in the sense that the battery would charge from the rangeXchange cable and permit household appliances to be plugged in to the Delta Pro. The downside is that there is a lot of ACDC conversion going on with a subsequent loss of efficiency. I think @DeaneG understands all of this a lot better than I do, but I think the simple answer is "not worth it," unless it's for emergencies where efficiency doesn't matter.
 
A generator can be configured without a ground rod. That is the standard way if not connected to house wiring.

Even if a Lucid V2L required a ground rod, that would not be too hard to accomplish for an end user.
 
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Saksak said:
An interesting solution is the Delta Pro battery based “generator.” I wonder if it would work with the range exchange cable.
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The issue so far has been that these types of things use their sole bidirectional inverter for either charging their own battery from the J1772 input, or for powering their own outlets. They can't do both at the same time (there's just just one inverter and it's used for either AC->DC or DC->AC), so you can't use them as a passthough to connect a Lucid car to some 120V appliances. I don't know about the Delta Pro specifically though. Its specs may say if its outlets can furnish power while charging from J1772.

The classic and still popular way to create a neutral, splitting the 240V output of a solar inverter, or a car's inverter, is with an autotransformer. The autotransformer forces the voltage on both 120V legs to be equal in voltage and opposite in phase, with neutral precisely in the middle. the neutral conductor carries 120V load current back to the service entry. It's very different in function from grounding. The only thing that relates the two is that the neutral conductor is incidentally connected to ground at the service entry. This helps to ensure that neutral is near earth potential. Ideally, zero current travels along ground conductors and into the ground rod.
 
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