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Is Lucid nerfing power output?

There are already tuners unlocking more power in the Taycan. Im sure you could juice more output out of the motors if you bypass traction control
 
As much as I like fast cars and motorcycles I can't say I've really ever cared that the Gravity "only" does 0-60 in 3.4ish seconds. It's a somewhat pointless statistic just for bragging rights at this point.

On the other hand, the Gravity is one of the best driving/handling vehicles I've ever been in. The speed and control for something this size and weight is mind boggling to me sometimes.
 
Macrocosmcwh said:
As someone that owned a Rivian, I think that the drive ratio has one of the largest parts to play in this. My R1 S topped out at 112 mph. It absolutely would not drive faster.
Also, I feel like it has a lot to do with software and software limiting the vehicles. If you think about it, there is zero difference physically between a GT air and a GT air performance and a GT dream edition. Everything in those vehicles physically is the same. The only difference is the programming.
Which led me to my very first post asking people what they pay for the ability to upgrade the performance in your vehicle. Would you pay to upgrade the 0 to 60 time in a gravity? I sure would.
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It’s not just programming. I’m sure Lucid tuned the drive software to eke out every ounce of performance at every speed.

As you said, the gear ratio plays a big part, and that’s why the R1S tops out at 112 mph, is great at 0-30 but drops off 30-80, and is terrible at the 1/4 mile (because of the top speed).

Lucid decided to optimize around real world passing situations instead of maximizing low end torque. The faster a motor spins, the greater the back EMF (and the lower the torque). That’s why Lucid starts to pass the Rivian around 30 mph.

Let’s not forget that the Gravity’s 0-60 times at 3.4 seconds still beats most “muscle cars.”

Still, I like fast and I did pay for 0-60 in 3.0 seconds with the GDE, which has a bigger front motor 🤣.
 
Macrocosmcwh said:
I thought they were all the same… are you 100% on this? So the DE motors have higher output potential?
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Yes, I am certain on this. And yes, they do. The Air DEs also have a different battery chemistry (from a different manufacturer) than the rest of the fleet. That’s also why the DE has 118kWh battery and the GT has 112kWh, despite having the same number of cells.

The DE is a somewhat more powerful / higher output vehicle.

For the Gravity DE, it is similarly distinct from the Gravity GT, though with fewer differences. The DE uses the rear motor for both the front and back motors, whereas the GT (and T) use different motors for the front and rear, for better efficiency (but lower overall attainable power output).

The Sapphire has 3 motors and is its own crazy beast.
 
In case anyone cares, I took Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric 6 max performance summer tire on large Lucid Wheel in 275/295 size on the highway and hit the brakes, to the floor, from about 110. High regen. For science.

Going fast is nice, but outside stock summer tire the braking is absolutely terrible (mid size wheel loaner almost got me into trouble with a 30mph city stop).

The tires I use are a sizeable upgrade to PZ5 stock tire at half the cost. Rear wheel has to be a smidge wider, front can be had in stock size or 275.
 

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It’s literally just 2 things: motor max torque and gear ratio. There is nothing else and no magic. There is no torque “curve.”

BEV motors deliver roughly flat, peak torque from 0 RPM until the point of field weakening. Then the torque slopes roughly linearly downward from there while the motor maintains peak HP. So, the gear ratio mostly determines acceleration, and the gear ratio is the engineering balance between acceleration sprints to 60 MPH and 1/4 mile, and top speed.

Most BEV motors have a max RPM in the 15K range and gear ratio around 9:1. The gravity is a little higher at 20K RPM, which gives it some gearing flexibility for increased acceleration.
 
legacy said:
Sure but who can use the speed over about 80mph. No one's taking their family at 100+mph in a gravity or tracking it. The most people will do are 0-60 on-ramp pulls or 1/4 mile runs for fun. No ones doing top speed runs for fun, so gearing for top end might be questionable. Winning 0-60 is a marketing/sales game also. Rivian caps their top speed at like 112-130mph and buyers dont care.
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100mph is not that much.during my demo drive two weeks ago I was going 155mph :) lots of fun in German autobahn ☺️
 
legacy said:
Sure but who can use the speed over about 80mph. No one's taking their family at 100+mph in a gravity or tracking it. The most people will do are 0-60 on-ramp pulls or 1/4 mile runs for fun. No ones doing top speed runs for fun, so gearing for top end might be questionable. Winning 0-60 is a marketing/sales game also. Rivian caps their top speed at like 112-130mph and buyers dont care.
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I accidentally hit 125 just passing 2 semi trucks on a 2-lane highway, and that was still just in smooth mode.
 
Saksak said:
It’s not just programming. I’m sure Lucid tuned the drive software to eke out every ounce of performance at every speed.

As you said, the gear ratio plays a big part, and that’s why the R1S tops out at 112 mph, is great at 0-30 but drops off 30-80, and is terrible at the 1/4 mile (because of the top speed).

Lucid decided to optimize around real world passing situations instead of maximizing low end torque. The faster a motor spins, the greater the back EMF (and the lower the torque). That’s why Lucid starts to pass the Rivian around 30 mph.

Let’s not forget that the Gravity’s 0-60 times at 3.4 seconds still beats most “muscle cars.”

Still, I like fast and I did pay for 0-60 in 3.0 seconds with the GDE, which has a bigger front motor 🤣.
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How much more expensive was de vs GGT?
 
Macrocosmcwh said:
As someone that owned a Rivian, I think that the drive ratio has one of the largest parts to play in this. My R1 S topped out at 112 mph. It absolutely would not drive faster.
Also, I feel like it has a lot to do with software and software limiting the vehicles. If you think about it, there is zero difference physically between a GT air and a GT air performance and a GT dream edition. Everything in those vehicles physically is the same. The only difference is the programming.
Which led me to my very first post asking people what they pay for the ability to upgrade the performance in your vehicle. Would you pay to upgrade the 0 to 60 time in a gravity? I sure would.
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I would always pay for more performance. And, yes, the infrequent blasts to make a highway move (I drive like it's all a chess game, watching other's moves, speed differentials, etc. to avoid getting stuck behind a left lane hog) the squirt between 80 and 100 can not only be useful but purely exhilirating!

And, I see what you did, @Macrocosmcwh !
 
borski said:
That’s not quite true. In the Air, the DE has a different front or rear motor (I can’t remember tbh) with more exotic metallurgy, which is part of why it can do more.

The GT-P and GT are separated only by software, yes.
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GT-P is essentially the same car as the DE rather than the other way around. The batteries are the same as well as the physical modifications to the motors for controlling speed. Something with higher torque being unable to modulate speed as efficiently because the on and off states are larger. I don't remember the full details from Emad's interview linked earlier.

Folks will have to go way, way back to when the GT-P was first released. Derek Jenkins and Eric Bach both did multiple interviews explaining the difference in tuning, suspension, and a handful of other items. Tie that in with Emad's explanation of the motors from the interviews with The Savage Geese, all the differences start to add up beyond just software.
 
Adnillien said:
This is right, Lucid tuned the torque curve on both Air and Gravity for great acceleration at higher speeds. I like this choice since it makes Gravity great at passing on two lane highways.
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I realize that 0-60 times are important to some, but I appreciate the higher speed acceleration for passing. Fact is that times near 3 seconds will get anyone up to speed on entry to a highway without a problem. FWIW, after a few launch control starts in my Turbo S for 2.5 second times the thrill was gone. The only time power counted is entering a straight on the track. That is where acceleration matters but let's acknowledge that the Air, Gravity or any Rivian are not track weapons.
 
Rogue said:
GT-P is essentially the same car as the DE rather than the other way around. The batteries are the same as well as the physical modifications to the motors for controlling speed. Something with higher torque being unable to modulate speed as efficiently because the on and off states are larger. I don't remember the full details from Emad's interview linked earlier.

Folks will have to go way, way back to when the GT-P was first released. Derek Jenkins and Eric Bach both did multiple interviews explaining the difference in tuning, suspension, and a handful of other items. Tie that in with Emad's explanation of the motors from the interviews with The Savage Geese, all the differences start to add up beyond just software.
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That makes sense; the short-lived GT-P was the response to people wanting more DEs. It had less HP and was $10k more, but *that* may have been software.
 
037 said:
Bunch of minivans
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Only one of them is a 800+hp Sleeper:) When we used to make fun of miata's for being slower than minivans....Now you have to make fun of almost everyone....
 
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