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Air + DreamDrive Pro: Were We Left Behind?

tarator said:
As an investor, do you want the company to keep customers by delivering what they promised?
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Not if it costs them new customers because they spent time and money chasing something that is probably undeliverable by them at the expense of making more basic software features work.
 
HC_79 said:
To be clear. I'm not disagreeing with you or anyone who is annoyed, it sucks tbh. I do think an explanation on where owners stand with DD Pro for the Air is well overdue from Lucid. It's clear as day, in all the launch \ hype phase they promised L3 and the $10K cost was justified as a result of that promise. Would anyone have paid $10K for what's offered today? Probably not! There's a big difference promoting the crap out of something and not taking money for it, You can pull the rug whenever you want. But when you promote and take money for something then it's a whole different ball game.
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gaskiller said:
It could have level 3 ready hardware….but Lucid may wish not to develop it into level 3…..as an investor, I want them going the faster route with the latest hardware/software. Don’t waste money developing older hardware in the Air into a level 3 system.
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And as a customer, I want them to not over promise and under deliver.
 
Stevie Bee said:
And as a customer, I want them to not over promise and under deliver.
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And let's not forget that the 'keep the promise' bar goes up when it's a 'paid for' line item upgrade. And for the revisionists out there, Lucid has absolutely NOT met the $9k DDP expectations set when I bought my Pure AWD, although I was never really holding my breath for 'eyes off' driving anyway.

BTW, I'm retired finance guy, strategic planner, Lucid investor and owner. I get the 'allocation of scarce resources' argument wherein a company may think it's in their better long-term financial interest to reneg on this particular type of promise. They would be wrong. And all that said, I'm still not ready to write off Lucid on this. I think they've just lost their way a little.
 
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HC_79 said:
Problem is, they keep this messaging on their website. Using the words "Future Capable" can lead people to believe more will come. If DD Pro is tapped out for Air then they need to update the messaging

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I mean, okay? But “Future Capable” is a meaningless term. There’s no way I would read that as “This car will do everything any future car will ever be able to do, even if no car currently does any of it.”

It could just as easily mean “this car will continue doing what it does in the future.”

If you read that and say “This must mean level 4 autonomy”, I don’t know. That’s sort of on you? To my mind.

No lawyer is going to take that to court. Let’s put it that way.
 
We can have a discussion of whether or not Lucid “should” say stuff like that in their marketing. Ethically, it’s certainly not great.

But this is the USA. It’s how we do things here.

How many of us pay for “Unlimited data” on our phones?

Pass a law that says “Future Capable” means you have to make it support every conceivable feature for all eternity, and then you have a case for making them change this. Otherwise, buyer beware applies.
 
Mr.Quindazzi said:
Not if it costs them new customers because they spent time and money chasing something that is probably undeliverable by them at the expense of making more basic software features work.
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It is ALWAYS a bad idea to piss of your current customers in order to eventually, hopefully get new ones. The potential new ones are not stupid and can see how the existing ones are being treated.
 
gaskiller said:
It could have level 3 ready hardware….but Lucid may wish not to develop it into level 3…..as an investor, I want them going the faster route with the latest hardware/software. Don’t waste money developing older hardware in the Air into a level 3 system.
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You want that if they can sell subscriptions to L3 it immediately expands their surface. I hope they can.
 
socktucker said:
Nobody in my circle will buy a Lucid after my experience.
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My experience is mostly (95%) positive, but I also didn't buy DDPro. But if they don't do a major update to the Air in the next two years, or release another (hopefully smaller) sedan, I am going to look elsewhere once my lease ends.
 
tarator said:
It is ALWAYS a bad idea to piss of your current customers in order to eventually, hopefully get new ones. The potential new ones are not stupid and can see how the existing ones are being treated.
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Sure. But how far do you take that?

Years ago, I worked in a computer store. Guy came in and claimed the company was engaged in “planned obsolescence” because his ten-year old printer was no longer compatible with the latest OS.

In my experience, the types of people who raise a big stink like this about something that old are never going to pay you again, anyway. They just want free handouts forever.

I don’t think anyone who bought a Lucid in 2022 can complain they haven’t been given plenty since they took delivery. It seems just a hair unreasonable to me to expect that car will get the latest L4 capable software that probably won’t ship until 2029, anyway.

How many actual original customers will still be driving their Airs at that point? A thousand? Two thousand? They didn’t even sell many more than that in 2022.

Like it or not, businesses need to weigh cost vs benefit. On literally everything. It’s a number on a spreadsheet. And the numbers don’t add up to make this happen, clearly.

You’re very welcome to disagree. But I’m willing to bet the vast majority of customers they lose over this weren’t going to buy another Lucid, anyway. Certainly not when their 2022 has all the features of a 2029.
 
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socktucker said:
You want that if they can sell subscriptions to L3 it immediately expands their surface. I hope they can.
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And it gives them even more reason to direct more resources to it.
 
The sad fact is Lucid could probably promise to ship L4 for current Airs forever, never deliver, and the folks here would actually be happier.
 
IDK years ago I had a printer that would not work with a newer OS. I didn't complain but I have never bought anything from that firm again. Not a big deal for them I'm sure. But it does make me feel better to automatically eliminate them from consideration when I'm shopping for monitors, scanners, printers and computers.
 
tarator said:
My experience is mostly (95%) positive, but I also didn't buy DDPro. But if they don't do a major update to the Air in the next two years, or release another (hopefully smaller) sedan, I am going to look elsewhere once my lease ends.
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I am this as well.
Love driving this car and did not go for DDpro with my lease (1st ever lease) this was my Tesla Killer car (had unlimited FSD model S) I feared giving up FSD but after a year with my AT (aptly named the Tesla Killer) I don’t miss FSD as much as I thought I would. That said, I do still want to have a solid ADAS option when shopping for my next car. It won’t be a Tesla, that much I know but there are other choices out there. So I’ll be watching and hoping for better news until my lease time is up, fingers crossed. I’m definitely interested in what the next Lucid model might be and “when” it might be. Unfortunately there’s only 2 years to go for me now, so time is getting shorter.
 
joec said:
You’re very welcome to disagree. But I’m willing to bet the vast majority of customers they lose over this weren’t going to buy another Lucid, anyway. Certainly not when their 2022 has all the features of a 2028.
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It won't have all the features. Only the ones that were promised. Another good option, IMO, is to refund the price of DDPro back to the customers.
 
Tim-in-CA said:
If OpenPilot Comma.AI can provide street level driving with a device that affixes to the windshield, it's pretty shocking that Lucid (with the sh*t ton of sensors that was promoted to us to by DDP) can't do it, is pretty shocking. Rivian Gen 1 is also bailing on adding any meaningful updates to R1T/S as well and the Comma.AI device that is available for these models surpasses what Rivian can do on Gen2 (currently). Yea, I agree that it's pretty disappointing if no meaningful updates are provided for Air DDP (and no, improved self parking is not what I -- or anyone else -- is looking for)
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Hope some skillful owners here can port Lucid for OpenPilot. Some folks did Rivian already.
 
tarator said:
It won't have all the features. Only the ones that were promised. Another good option, IMO, is to refund the price of DDPro back to the customers.
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Name me an ADAS feature that was promised for Air that hasn't already been delivered.

I keep hearing people talk about promises that simply weren't made at the time of purchase. Assumptions seem to have been made on the part of customers. I keep reading "Buy my Tesla does X" to which I say "What does that have to do with anything Lucid promised?"


Old PowerPoints dug up from long before cars were in production showed a lot of things that never shipped, sure. But I bought my car in 2022, and I knew full well it was going to get exactly what I now have. They have not promised more since then, so anyone buying after that has even less reason to believe additional promises were made.

It still has bugs, of course, but those will continue to get fixed.
 
Two points I'll add:
- Lucid Gravity seems to also be dead end at L2++. The slides for L3 and L4 specify Cosmos and family. If you watched the CES coverage Gravity needed quite a few hardware changes (even beyond the halo on top) to attain L4 capability with Nuro and Uber. They are specifically changing up processors (Thor) and sensor placement to make Cosmos and Earth L4 ready from the factory.
- If you look at yesterday's slide deck they have two full pages of forward-looking statements disclaimers. Every business talking about future plans generally includes this, as divining the future is an imprecise exercise at best. The future is always a bit different than you expected and we reserve the right to wake up smarter in the morning.
 
tonybot said:
Hope some skillful owners here can port Lucid for OpenPilot. Some folks did Rivian already.
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Lucid doesn’t have OBD-II, so it’s a little harder, but not impossible.
 
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