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Air + DreamDrive Pro: Were We Left Behind?

HC_79 said:
Will be interesting what you hear back but shortly after CES many were asking similar questions about L2++ coming to Air and Nick said the hardware wasn't capable. Given what Lucid sold at the launch of DreamDrive Pro (Highway Pilot was technically supposed to be L3 I believe) and subsequently charged $10K for it, I do think they owe owners an explanation to what's going on.

In Lucid's defense, the autonomous stuff for Air was highway focused, even when they were promoting L3 in the early days. It was never going to do city streets so I guess the only thing that's really missing from the Air is eyes off highway driving (L3). I think many of us assumed it was going to evolve more than what Lucid had ever anticipated for it.
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There is an old video or two of Lucid demoing city streets driving using the LiDAR on Air. I’ll have to find it as it’s buried, but they definitely demoed it at one point for autonomous city driving.
 
As we were both approaching our mid-70s when we bought our Air, the promised capabilities of DDP were THE deciding factor for us... We tend to keep and care for our vehicles for as long as they are reliable, and we figured that DDP would be an effective bit of backup toward keeping up safely on the road a little longer on our slide into decrepitude. Now, after spending $100k on that promise, we have a car that we love, but that is seemingly going to lack the very features that we were counting on the most. It sucks to be duped, if that is indeed the case. Say it ain't so, Lucid!
 
Same. I'm currently recovering from surgery for a detached retina. I could drive, but I've chose not to because I'm just not comfortable. Having a vehicle that could help make up the difference would be very valuable right now. I told a friend I was thinking about getting a Tesla with FSD. Then he said, "Only if you have a death wish." Decisions, decisions ....
 
BACamster said:
I didn't watch the presentation, but I did take a look at their software roadmap. Like you, I’m a bit disappointed with what was shown on the slides.

As an owner of an AT with DDPro, I was hoping to see a slightly stronger software offering than what was presented.

For example, take Digital Key—why can’t they implement Digital Key over the air as a replacement for the current Mobile Key?
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Digital Key requires UWB, and the Air only has Bluetooth. It is not a software issue, but a hardware one.
 
Tim-in-CA said:
If OpenPilot Comma.AI can provide street level driving with a device that affixes to the windshield, it's pretty shocking that Lucid (with the sh*t ton of sensors that was promoted to us to by DDP) can't do it, is pretty shocking. Rivian Gen 1 is also bailing on adding any meaningful updates to R1T/S as well and the Comma.AI device that is available for these models surpasses what Rivian can do on Gen2 (currently). Yea, I agree that it's pretty disappointing if no meaningful updates are provided for Air DDP (and no, improved self parking is not what I -- or anyone else -- is looking for)
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Keep in mind Comma.ai builds on top of what is already available in the car, and Comma didn’t have to build that piece; they just accept that it works, and leave that up to the manufacturer.

Also, Comma runs on an entirely separate device with its own dedicated processing, memory, etc. That, in this case, is actually a benefit.
 
Unmutual said:
Same. I'm currently recovering from surgery for a detached retina. I could drive, but I've chose not to because I'm just not comfortable. Having a vehicle that could help make up the difference would be very valuable right now. I told a friend I was thinking about getting a Tesla with FSD. Then he said, "Only if you have a death wish." Decisions, decisions ....
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Please don’t trust FSD with your life. Please.
 
Stevie Bee said:
If that’s true, Lucid really should explain why the Air hardware isn’t capable. On the surface, the car has an extensive sensor suite, so it’s fair for owners to wonder where the limitation actually is (The Model Y uses only 8 cameras and is way more advanced at this point). If the constraint is compute, say that. If it’s architecture, say that. If the company has simply decided not to prioritize autonomy development for Air, owners deserve to know that too.

I bought this car partly because I was comfortable being an early adopter. The tradeoff, in my mind, was that there would be some rough edges at first, but that the vehicle would improve meaningfully over time through software and feature development — and to Lucid’s credit, in many ways it has. I viewed DreamDrive Pro the same way: not just as a feature set for day one, but as an investment in a platform that would continue to get more capable as Lucid refined its autonomy stack.

If that’s no longer the plan for Air, they should be direct about it.
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This is the take I agree with.

I love my car, but transparency is important here - it’s okay for things to have changed, imho. That happens. Unforeseen circumstances occur. Best laid plans of mice and men and all that.

But I think communicating about it would go a long way. I would actually be fine if it were simply that they were wrong and it won’t work out because of *reasons*. I’d just want to know those reasons.

I’m perfectly happy with it as is, and I don’t need any more personally. But that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like to see it, especially if it was promised.

And if they can’t deliver, that’s actually okay in my book, provided it isn’t because “we don’t want to,” but for valid reasons. I’m certain there are valid reasons. It would just be nice to know what they are.
 
Unmutual said:
I was trying to indicate irony via my use of ellipses in "Decisions, decisions ...."
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This was one of those "IF YOU'RE NOT SURE, SAY SOMETHING!" situations, I felt. :)
 
Anyone who bought an Air very early on (2022) who followed the company long before launch and had the impression DDPro might eventually do more than it does, I think that’s fair. Lucid did have a presentation or two a very long time ago, before they had any cars on the road, that suggested more capability. They were likely pulling those claims out of their butts, on the assumption that one day they’d maybe be able to make it happen. Keep in mind, they likely hadn’t written a line of code yet.

They stopped making any such claims a few years ago now, though. So if you bought your car in 2024 or 2025 thinking you’d get Level 4, well, they weren’t promising that to anyone at that point. Even by late 2022 when I got my Air, Lucid was basically promising exactly what we now have and nothing more.

What changed? They realized they’d be better off outsourcing a lot of their ADAS vs trying to build it from scratch in-house. And the company they are partnering with told them there’s something in the Air’s hardware that’s not going to be compatible. Or it would be quite a burden to get it going.

The tech business is always about tradeoffs. You can spend tens of thousands of man hours making customers who paid you five years ago happy, but that’s going to hurt your ability to please new customers. And as you might have heard yesterday, there are 10x as many new customers as current ones out there.

There’s no doubt in my mind sometime after Cosmos, Earth, and Stay Tuned ship, the Air and Gravity will get a refresh that makes them L4 capable with their partner’s software. And you’ll likely have to pay a monthly subscription for it. (That’s where the money is, if you didn’t pay attention to that portion of the presentation.)

So be mad, sure. But if Lucid wants to stay around long enough to be profitable, they are absolutely making the right tradeoffs here. V2H and UX 3.0 will fulfill everything the company was claiming when I got my car. I can dig up an old PowerPoint and claim they promised me more, but they didn’t at the time of purchase.

They also claimed there would be reclining rear seats and electronically shaded glass, and self-opening doors. But none of those happened, either. Plans change.

If I want more , I’ll pay for a new car just like everyone else. Or I’ll take my money and go buy something from another manufacturer who does the same thing to me.
 
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Unmutual said:
At launch and at least through May of 2022 when I ordered the car, Dream Drive Pro was marketed as having Level 3-ready hardware. I, perhaps foolishly, expected that it would be rolled out at some point, and I at least expect Level 2 ++.

(around 4:35--"Hands off, eyes off")

www.prnewswire.com

Lucid Motors Announces DreamDrive, an Advanced Driver-Assistance System that Debuts in the Lucid Air

/PRNewswire/ -- Lucid Motors, which seeks to set new standards for sustainable transportation with its advanced luxury EVs, today announced DreamDrive, a new...
www.prnewswire.com www.prnewswire.com

www.caranddriver.com

Lucid Air EV Will Have Lidar and Driver-Assist Systems on Board

The upcoming EV sedan will have driver monitoring and can be updated for future Level 3 semi-autonomous driving capability.
www.caranddriver.com www.caranddriver.com
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It could have level 3 ready hardware….but Lucid may wish not to develop it into level 3…..as an investor, I want them going the faster route with the latest hardware/software. Don’t waste money developing older hardware in the Air into a level 3 system.
 
Here you go, Lucid 10 years ago showing city drive in a prototype. There are owners who saw this promises and purchased the car, i am one of them. What we call this?

 
joec said:
They stopped making any such claims a few years ago now, though. So if you bought your car in 2024 or 2025 thinking you’d get Level 4, well, they weren’t promising that to anyone at that point. Even by late 2022 when I got my Air, Lucid was basically promising exactly what we now have and nothing more.
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Problem is, they keep this messaging on their website. Using the words "Future Capable" can lead people to believe more will come. If DD Pro is tapped out for Air then they need to update the messaging

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Stevie Bee said:
Yesterday’s Investor Day left me with a pretty troubling question as an Air owner who paid for DreamDrive Pro.

From what I heard, Lucid discussed a roadmap that seems to move well beyond today’s freeway hands-free capability — toward hands-free city driving, then Level 3, and eventually Level 4 — but the vehicles specifically mentioned appeared to be Gravity and the upcoming midsize platform, including Cosmos. I did not hear the Air mentioned in that part of the roadmap.
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I find it disturbing Lucid is putting lots of money and resources into this and that foolish robotaxi (how the heck is that ever going to be profitable?)

Assuring all the cars current features work in a rock solid, reliable manner will sell a lot more cars than chasing a marginal features of dubious utility.
I'm not excusing them breaking the promises they made when marketing the cars, but stringing people along with more such promises just exacerbates the problem- straight outta the Musk playbook. They would be way better off refunding the money people paid for DDP for those who feel aggrieved. Developing hands free city driving, level 3 and level 4 autonomy is a money sink of such epic proportions that the company will never reach profitability if they pursue it (unless they just shine people on like Tesla)
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If they make good cars where everything works, they'll get beyond the early adopter crowd to which the latest in autonomous driving is very important into the vastly larger market of people who want a really nice electric car-in the case of the AIr, one with a market leading combination of power, handling, ride, and luxury.
 
Mr.Quindazzi said:
I find it disturbing Lucid is putting lots of money and resources into this and that foolish robotaxi (how the heck is that ever going to be profitable?)

Assuring all the cars current features work in a rock solid, reliable manner will sell a lot more cars than chasing a marginal features of dubious utility.
I'm not excusing them breaking the promises they made when marketing the cars, but stringing people along with more such promises just exacerbates the problem- straight outta the Musk playbook. They would be way better off refunding the money people paid for DDP for those who feel aggrieved. Developing hands free city driving, level 3 and level 4 autonomy is a money sink of such epic proportions that the company will never reach profitability if they pursue it (unless they just shine people on like Tesla)
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If they make good cars where everything works, they'll get beyond the early adopter crowd to which the latest in autonomous driving is very important into the vastly larger market of people who want a really nice electric car-in the case of the AIr, one with a market leading combination of power, handling, ride, and luxury.
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It felt like a bunch of buzzword bingo to me. Lots of talk but delivered nothing new.

We will see what they can deliver on in the future.
 
HC_79 said:
Problem is, they keep this messaging on their website. Using the words "Future Capable" can lead people to believe more will come. If DD Pro is tapped out for Air then they need to update the messaging

View attachment 37307
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My 2015 Tesla Model S with AP1 already had the four bullet-point features listed on the slide, plus Auto Lane Change. All of that was achieved using only cameras—and that vehicle is eight years older than my 2023 AT.
 
Mr.Quindazzi said:
I find it disturbing Lucid is putting lots of money and resources into this and that foolish robotaxi (how the heck is that ever going to be profitable?)
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Uber is putting lots of money and resources into Lucid (and Nuro) for that "foolish robotaxi" ... I don't know what you're on about there.
Mr.Quindazzi said:
Developing hands free city driving, level 3 and level 4 autonomy is a money sink of such epic proportions that the company will never reach profitability if they pursue it (unless they just shine people on like Tesla)
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It's also pretty significant to note that Lucid isn't doing this themselves, like Tesla largely did/does. NVidia is working on ADAS, Lucid is plugging it in. I'm sure that's an exaggeration as to how little Lucid is involved, but it's a far cry from Lucid investing billions in ADAS tech all on their own.
 
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gaskiller said:
It could have level 3 ready hardware….but Lucid may wish not to develop it into level 3…..as an investor, I want them going the faster route with the latest hardware/software. Don’t waste money developing older hardware in the Air into a level 3 system.
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As an investor, do you want the company to keep customers by delivering what they promised?
 
segbrk said:
Uber is putting lots of money and resources into Lucid (and Nuro) for that "foolish robotaxi" ... I don't know what you're on about there.

It's also pretty significant to note that Lucid isn't doing this themselves, like Tesla largely did/does. NVidia is working on ADAS, Lucid is plugging it in. I'm sure that's an exaggeration as to how little Lucid is involved, but it's a far cry from Lucid investing billions in ADAS tech all on their own.
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Lucid struggles to deliver robust software for their own projects; doing development work on someone else's doesn't seem like a benefit to people who own Lucids- but maybe Uber made them an offer they couldn't refuse.

I'm guessing NVidia is going to want to get paid to use what they develop........
 
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