Sapphire vs. Rimac Nevera

[Rogue]

I have not followed the Rimac Nevera as closely because of the price tag. American Top Gear did a light review of it about four months ago on an ice track doing 360s...

For those more knowledgeable about cars, what should be the expectations between the two cars? Lucid is a sedan (most glaring difference) while the Rimac is a two seater. However, Lucid has made performance comparisons between the two. I would personally like to see a similar two seater from Lucid (hopefully not pricier than the Sapphire's 250k) in a few years when I could reasonably afford one.

I don't know... Thoughts? Open discussion is the goal with the understanding it is speculative and without regard to current hurdles at Lucid.

 

[Mountain Man]

I have not driven a Neverra. But believe it or not I HAVE test-driven a Pininfarina Battista (!) which I was considering purchasing as an investment. The Battista is basically a Rimac with some alterations to the body, interior and suspension. If you are asking whether there is any comparison between the Lucid air sapphire, and the Rimac/Battista: there is absolutely no similarities whatsoever between these cars. This is like talking about the difference between buying an eight seater Learjet and an F-15 fighter jet. The Sapphire is presumably a faster and slightly stiffer version of the Air Dream. It’s still a big 5-seater with massage seats. Call it an electric M5. The Battista/Rimac is a totally different experience. It is a very rough-riding, cramped, claustrophobic, mind-altering event. You step way over the carbon-fiber frame to plop down into tight seats and you’re shoulder-to-shoulder with your passenger. The windshield is very narrow, and the roof close to your head (I’m 6’). The windows partly roll down, but only partly. The handling is other-worldly. If you’ve driven a Bugatti Veyron, it’s like that: instant turn-in, totally flat, but still feels huge. Acceleration is really TOO much. Floor it and the car hunts for traction and then after a slight side-step, it shoots forward so rapidly and violently that it’s hard to hold onto the steering wheel. If there’s a car in front of you, you’ve already smashed into the back of it at 150 mph. They claim 0-60 in 1.8 (like the Sapphire) but I bet it’s more like 1.2 seconds. Braking is phenomenal, of course. When you settle down and switch it to calm mode, it rides pretty nicely but every single rock or pebble bounces around inside the carbon fiber frame so it sounds like you’re in a dump truck heading to the gravel yard. The Neverra/Rimac is thrilling, terrifying, shocking. The Sapphire is…a faster Air. I saved myself $2.1 million and ordered a Sapphire.

 

[Rogue]

I have not driven a Neverra. But believe it or not I HAVE test-driven a Pininfarina Battista (!) which I was considering purchasing as an investment. The Battista is basically a Rimac with some alterations to the body, interior and suspension. If you are asking whether there is any comparison between the Lucid air sapphire, and the Rimac/Battista: there is absolutely no similarities whatsoever between these cars. This is like talking about the difference between buying an eight seater Learjet and an F-15 fighter jet. The Sapphire is presumably a faster and slightly stiffer version of the Air Dream. It’s still a big 5-seater with massage seats. Call it an electric M5. The Battista/Rimac is a totally different experience. It is a very rough-riding, cramped, claustrophobic, mind-altering event. You step way over the carbon-fiber frame to plop down into tight seats and you’re shoulder-to-shoulder with your passenger. The windshield is very narrow, and the roof close to your head (I’m 6’). The windows partly roll down, but only partly. The handling is other-worldly. If you’ve driven a Bugatti Veyron, it’s like that: instant turn-in, totally flat, but still feels huge. Acceleration is really TOO much. Floor it and the car hunts for traction and then after a slight side-step, it shoots forward so rapidly and violently that it’s hard to hold onto the steering wheel. If there’s a car in front of you, you’ve already smashed into the back of it at 150 mph. They claim 0-60 in 1.8 (like the Sapphire) but I bet it’s more like 1.2 seconds. Braking is phenomenal, of course. When you settle down and switch it to calm mode, it rides pretty nicely but every single rock or pebble bounces around inside the carbon fiber frame so it sounds like you’re in a dump truck heading to the gravel yard. The Neverra/Rimac is thrilling, terrifying, shocking. The Sapphire is…a faster Air. I saved myself $2.1 million and ordered a Sapphire.

Thank you for the insight. I am only at the start of my career and building my business, but one day I hope to be fortunate enough to experience those types of cars (probably not buy though). This part seems to be the trade-off direction for that level of performance for any brand:

It is a very rough-riding, cramped, claustrophobic, mind-altering event. You step way over the carbon-fiber frame to plop down into tight seats and you’re shoulder-to-shoulder with your passenger. The windshield is very narrow, and the roof close to your head (I’m 6’). The windows partly roll down, but only partly.

Considering your experience with truly high-end performance vehicles, how would you compare the Rimac/Bugatti/Battista to the Porsche 911 GT3 series? I imagine there has to be a point of diminishing returns. If the Sapphire ends up only being a faster DE or GT-P, then the cost benefit ratio is sub-par in my opinion. At least for me, I would hope for a little more agility, and it sounds like it will have better handling geared to more track-ish driving. Keep in mind I have not test driven any kind of performance car, much less the GT that I have an order for. My knowledge is purely through second hand reviews, videos, and articles.

 

[Mountain Man]

I put down a $50k deposit for a Tesla Roadster years ago, and am still hopeful they’ll build it!

 

[Rogue]

Competition is always great for the market. The Lucid Sapphire will be on its own for the price range, but a Roadster fits that price range if I remember correctly. A comparison side by side would be great.

In particular, a head to head of the AutoPilot and DreamDrive would be fantastic. If Lucid can play catch-up fairly quickly, the competition will be fierce. Mercedes showed off some of their technology on a recent test drive (usual public stuff). They may be pretty far along with their internal tests, but it would be hard to say without a public release. Out of Spec reviews did a series for highway assist in a handful of cars. Some manufacturers have that part squared away pretty well while others need constant monitoring.

Does Bugatti and Rimac offer the same features? It seems like a contradiction to me to have that kind of driving dynamic to hand it off to the computer.

 

[Mountain Man]

These are all great cars, but each very different. The 911 GT3 is superb. (I had a 991 GT3, sold to make room for a Speedster which is a GT3 convertible). The GT3 is really different than the Rimac, very visceral and connected, very upright driving position, very spacious and open and airy. It feels light and tossable but frankly not scary. At $200k you could have 12 of them for the price of a Rimac! The Bugatti (I have not owned one but my neighbor has both a Veyron and a Chiron) is a big Monster, surprisingly supple and luxurious but really loud under throttle.It’s quite an experience accelerating hard in a Bugatti, like being in a loud train with this huge honking noise filling your soul. I raced him in my Air DE - the Chiron was BARELY faster. It was pulling away at around 120….

As we all get older, I suspect ICE supercars are going to die because they cannot compete with the instant torque of electric motors. If the Rimac/Pininfarina were $250k instead of $2m, it would be an easy decision. So you’re right, if Lucid (or Tesla) could hurry up and develop an EV sports car for under $250k, it will be the perfect choice.

 

[joec]

I put down a $50k deposit for a Tesla Roadster years ago, and am still hopeful they’ll build it!

As much as I knock Tesla, that car is simply gorgeous. One of the best-looking cars I've ever seen. I really do hope they ship it sometime in the next year or two. Someone needs to convince Elon to let a real car person run Tesla, and just let him go play with the SpaceX folks. That's where his heart is, anyway.

 

[CraZ8]

There will be ice hyper cars for a while I suspect, they will just be like the Ferrari sf90 hybrid that has an electric motor on the front axle. This provides instant torque and subsequently allows the gas engine to rev up, the turbos to spool up and the tranny to kick down

 

[Mountain Man]

There will be ice hyper cars for a while I suspect, they will just be like the Ferrari sf90 hybrid that has an electric motor on the front axle. This provides instant torque and subsequently allows the gas engine to rev up, the turbos to spool up and the tranny to kick down

I agree completely.

 

[hydbob]

I have not driven a Neverra. But believe it or not I HAVE test-driven a Pininfarina Battista (!) which I was considering purchasing as an investment. The Battista is basically a Rimac with some alterations to the body, interior and suspension. If you are asking whether there is any comparison between the Lucid air sapphire, and the Rimac/Battista: there is absolutely no similarities whatsoever between these cars. This is like talking about the difference between buying an eight seater Learjet and an F-15 fighter jet. The Sapphire is presumably a faster and slightly stiffer version of the Air Dream. It’s still a big 5-seater with massage seats. Call it an electric M5. The Battista/Rimac is a totally different experience. It is a very rough-riding, cramped, claustrophobic, mind-altering event. You step way over the carbon-fiber frame to plop down into tight seats and you’re shoulder-to-shoulder with your passenger. The windshield is very narrow, and the roof close to your head (I’m 6’). The windows partly roll down, but only partly. The handling is other-worldly. If you’ve driven a Bugatti Veyron, it’s like that: instant turn-in, totally flat, but still feels huge. Acceleration is really TOO much. Floor it and the car hunts for traction and then after a slight side-step, it shoots forward so rapidly and violently that it’s hard to hold onto the steering wheel. If there’s a car in front of you, you’ve already smashed into the back of it at 150 mph. They claim 0-60 in 1.8 (like the Sapphire) but I bet it’s more like 1.2 seconds. Braking is phenomenal, of course. When you settle down and switch it to calm mode, it rides pretty nicely but every single rock or pebble bounces around inside the carbon fiber frame so it sounds like you’re in a dump truck heading to the gravel yard. The Neverra/Rimac is thrilling, terrifying, shocking. The Sapphire is…a faster Air. I saved myself $2.1 million and ordered a Sapphire.

Great feedback on the difference in these exotics! Also that steering wheel trips me out.

 

[Grnr92663]

I "know" someone who was part of the the team that develop & benchmark-test the Shappire, and here's the interesting fact: Lucid didn't develop it just to beat the the Plaid's numbers. They developed it to make sure it's as good as the Porsches GT3 and Rimac.

They did many test runs against the Plaid (along with the GT3) - but the end result is that the Shappire produced numbers that are just as good as ones from the Rimac & GT3 at the track.

I can't justify spending that much on a car, but from the performance perspective, hard to justify the $2M Rimac once you see the Shappire numbers - and its owners would be impressed with it for sure.

 

[Mountain Man]

I agree it’s hard to initially justify spending $250k for a daily driver that runs a constant risk of being dinged in parking lots or rear-ended by idiots or hitting rim-ruining potholes. It’s also hard to see the need for a car that does 0-60 in 1.8s to drive daily and sit in traffic. But I have started to realize as I get older that it is ridiculous that my $200k-$300k cars (Ferraris etc) are sitting in the garage gathering dust, so maybe it makes better sense to actually spend that kind of money on a car that I’ll drive almost every day. It’s $70k more than the DE, probably not worth it, but I sure like the color!

My neighbor drives his Bugatti to work almost every day…

 

[Sapphire™]

I have not driven a Neverra. But believe it or not I HAVE test-driven a Pininfarina Battista (!) which I was considering purchasing as an investment. The Battista is basically a Rimac with some alterations to the body, interior and suspension. If you are asking whether there is any comparison between the Lucid air sapphire, and the Rimac/Battista: there is absolutely no similarities whatsoever between these cars. This is like talking about the difference between buying an eight seater Learjet and an F-15 fighter jet. The Sapphire is presumably a faster and slightly stiffer version of the Air Dream. It’s still a big 5-seater with massage seats. Call it an electric M5. The Battista/Rimac is a totally different experience. It is a very rough-riding, cramped, claustrophobic, mind-altering event. You step way over the carbon-fiber frame to plop down into tight seats and you’re shoulder-to-shoulder with your passenger. The windshield is very narrow, and the roof close to your head (I’m 6’). The windows partly roll down, but only partly. The handling is other-worldly. If you’ve driven a Bugatti Veyron, it’s like that: instant turn-in, totally flat, but still feels huge. Acceleration is really TOO much. Floor it and the car hunts for traction and then after a slight side-step, it shoots forward so rapidly and violently that it’s hard to hold onto the steering wheel. If there’s a car in front of you, you’ve already smashed into the back of it at 150 mph. They claim 0-60 in 1.8 (like the Sapphire) but I bet it’s more like 1.2 seconds. Braking is phenomenal, of course. When you settle down and switch it to calm mode, it rides pretty nicely but every single rock or pebble bounces around inside the carbon fiber frame so it sounds like you’re in a dump truck heading to the gravel yard. The Neverra/Rimac is thrilling, terrifying, shocking. The Sapphire is…a faster Air. I saved myself $2.1 million and ordered a Sapphire.

1.2 seconds? No.

 

[Mountain Man]

1.2 seconds? No.

Ok, I exaggerate...but not by much. I tried to time it with my phone but it flew out of my hand. Next I tried to time it with my watch but it flew off my wrist. Then I tried to count with my fingers but they both broke off my hand before I could count them. So I tried to count out loud but when I opened my mouth my tongue flew out the side window.

In other words, it's brutal, beyond fast - like the Plaid, but much much worse. If the Sapphire approaches this level of instantaneous speed, we absolutely will have no more phones or fingers or watches or tongues. But the Sapphire has only 1,200 hp and weighs 800 lbs more than the 2,000-hp Battista, so I don't think it will rip us apart quite as badly.

 

[Grnr92663]

Ok, I exaggerate...but not by much. I tried to time it with my phone but it flew out of my hand. Next I tried to time it with my watch but it flew off my wrist. Then I tried to count with my fingers but they both broke off my hand before I could count them. So I tried to count out loud but when I opened my mouth my tongue flew out the side window.

In other words, it's brutal, beyond fast - like the Plaid, but much much worse. If the Sapphire approaches this level of instantaneous speed, we absolutely will have no more phones or fingers or watches or tongues. But the Sapphire has only 1,200 hp and weighs 800 lbs more than the 2,000-hp Battista, so I don't think it will rip us apart quite as badly.

Lucid stated that the Sapphire would have AT LEAST 1200hp.

The real number is quite a bit above this ...

 

[Sapphire™]

Ok, I exaggerate...but not by much. I tried to time it with my phone but it flew out of my hand. Next I tried to time it with my watch but it flew off my wrist. Then I tried to count with my fingers but they both broke off my hand before I could count them. So I tried to count out loud but when I opened my mouth my tongue flew out the side window.

In other words, it's brutal, beyond fast - like the Plaid, but much much worse. If the Sapphire approaches this level of instantaneous speed, we absolutely will have no more phones or fingers or watches or tongues. But the Sapphire has only 1,200 hp and weighs 800 lbs more than the 2,000-hp Battista, so I don't think it will rip us apart quite as badly.

My friend your "figures" are absolutely complete rubbish. I'd ask you to Source and cite them but you'd be busy all day. I'm not wasting my time with you.

Go get your all your flying paraphernalia for crying out loud.

 

[Sapphire™]

Lucid stated that the Sapphire would have AT LEAST 1200hp.

The real number is quite a bit above this ...

You've only to look at the previous 1/4 mile plus top speed runs to know! And you definitely know

She'll be a game changer. I know it.

 

[Rogue]

Only time will tell what the official numbers will be.

Speaking of numbers, I am eagerly waiting for Aptera to put their money where their mouth is. A 1,000 mile range would be incredible. The lower priced models would be fantastic for tight budgets to leverage money elsewhere (solar claims should result in no fuel expenses). If they can meet all their claims, I would buy one for the novelty.

 

[absent]

Ok, I exaggerate...but not by much. I tried to time it with my phone but it flew out of my hand. Next I tried to time it with my watch but it flew off my wrist. Then I tried to count with my fingers but they both broke off my hand before I could count them. So I tried to count out loud but when I opened my mouth my tongue flew out the side window.

In other words, it's brutal, beyond fast - like the Plaid, but much much worse. If the Sapphire approaches this level of instantaneous speed, we absolutely will have no more phones or fingers or watches or tongues. But the Sapphire has only 1,200 hp and weighs 800 lbs more than the 2,000-hp Battista, so I don't think it will rip us apart quite as badly.

No one from Lucid Company has ever said the Sapphire had 1200HP, not even one person said that.
"Over 1200HP" is the often quoted and actually the only official Lucid statement and that kind of phrasing is wide open, means it does not have less then 1200 but has more then that number.
It could mean 1201HP or 1800HP or any other number as long as it is higher then the obviously misunderstood 1200 quote.
Privately, a distant relative who happened to work for the company told me to expect a little bit less then 3 time the output of the motors used in the Air, when I threw a 1600 number at him, he said I was within 20HP plus or minus.
It is a bit silly game they play instead of just saying it straight what it is but somehow they got the idea it would add mystery and increase the interest in the car.
Whatever, if the car was really not much more then 1200HP it would not be so dramatically faster/quicker then the Dream Air, 1600HP makes more sense.
Can't wait for the car to arrive so I can see for myself, excited by the fact it has Akebono Ceramic brakes so I know I can trust the car to stop as well as i expect it to.
Unlike the brakes in my Plaid (traded last year for M5 CS) which were totally inadequate for that car with the mind altering performance it had otherwise.

 

[Sapphire™]

No one from Lucid Company has ever said the Sapphire had 1200HP, not even one person said that.
"Over 1200HP" is the often quoted and actually the only official Lucid statement and that kind of phrasing is wide open, means it does not have less then 1200 but has more then that number.
It could mean 1201HP or 1800HP or any other number as long as it is higher then the obviously misunderstood 1200 quote.
Privately, a distant relative who happened to work for the company told me to expect a little bit less then 3 time the output of the motors used in the Air, when I threw a 1600 number at him, he said I was within 20HP plus or minus.
It is a bit silly game they play instead of just saying it straight what it is but somehow they got the idea it would add mystery and increase the interest in the car.
Whatever, if the car was really not much more then 1200HP it would not be so dramatically faster/quicker then the Dream Air, 1600HP makes more sense.
Can't wait for the car to arrive so I can see for myself, excited by the fact it has Akebono Ceramic brakes so I know I can trust the car to stop as well as i expect it to.
Unlike the brakes in my Plaid (traded last year for M5 CS) which were totally inadequate for that car with the mind altering performance it had otherwise.

Well Lucid's *performance* claims for acceleration are quicker than the Bugatti Chiron Supersport. It weighs more too I believe the Lucid Air Sapphire so it's got to be packing some very seriously powerful horsepower and torque figures. BUT look at what the Tesla Plaid does with it's electric drives. It's a monster!

I'm still at 1341hp rating at the hubs. 1MW. If it's 1600hp as you say then all the better it's switchable anyway so doesn't really matter.

The car is a destroyer but it's the dynamic capabilities I'm more interested in!