Dream drive pro and autonomy subscription

[tidmutt]

The answer is a low-mileage off lease Air that is loaded with all the features already You can have your cake.

Honestly, even used, I'm terrified of EV depreciation. I still have PTSD from the deprecation on my Model Y Perf.

 

[martinjlm]

The answer is a low-mileage off lease Air that is loaded with all the features already You can have your cake.

I would second that. And although Lucid charges a hefty premium for DDP and SSP, it’s not reflected in used car pricing.

You guys know you're preaching to the choir, right?

 

[martinjlm]

Honestly, even used, I'm terrified of EV depreciation. I still have PTSD from the deprecation on my Model Y Perf.

The depreciation hit has already been taken. Bought my car in January for about $55k. Could probably sell it next week for $55k.

 

[Northpointe]

The depreciation hit has already been taken. Bought my car in January for about $55k. Could probably sell it next week for $55k.

And even if you took a slight haircut it would be nowhere near the $75K (or more) hit the initial owner took.

 

[bcjenkins]

And even if you took a slight haircut it would be nowhere near the $75K (or more) hit the initial owner took.

That will be me in the next 4-6 weeks. Assuming I actually close on the deal, I’ll be paying (i.e., pre-paying the depreciation of) ~$74K over the course of my 3Y lease.

 

[tidmutt]

The depreciation hit has already been taken. Bought my car in January for about $55k. Could probably sell it next week for $55k.

Sure... probably... maybe... not taking the risk.

 

[Aka-none]

I'm aware of those and I'm not interested. Maybe the Ioniq 5 N but I don't love Hyundai interiors.

I LIKE the Lucid, I don't love the missing feature.

Gravity is growing on me though.

All purchases should be considered with what it is at the time you purchase it

 

[tidmutt]

That will be me in the next 4-6 weeks. Assuming I actually close on the deal, I’ll be paying (i.e., pre-paying the depreciation of) ~$74K over the course of my 3Y lease.

Not quite how I’d put it. You’re pre-paying the depreciation Lucid forecasts over those three years, which may or may not match what actually happens. On a brand discounting this hard, a subsidised residual is likely, which means you may be paying for less depreciation than the car really takes. You are shifting the risk to them, which given history EV depreciation, seems like the smart play right now. Unless someone plans to hang on to the vehicle for a long time, which is a legitimate choice.

Saying that, I'm not really familiar with how Lucid's depreciate and what the residuals have been like in prior years.

 

[martinjlm]

Not quite how I’d put it. You’re pre-paying the depreciation Lucid forecasts over those three years, which may or may not match what actually happens. On a brand discounting this hard, a subsidised residual is likely, which means you may be paying for less depreciation than the car really takes. You are shifting the risk to them, which given history EV depreciation, seems like the smart play right now. Unless someone plans to hang on to the vehicle for a long time, which is a legitimate choice.

Saying that, I'm not really familiar with how Lucid's depreciate and what the residuals have been like in prior years.

When I decided to go down the used EV route I factored in the knowledge that luxury sedans take a hard depreciation hit after 3 years. And the knowledge that EVs take a hard depreciation hit after 2 years. So combining those two things might work out in my favor. I was turning in a 2024 Equinox EV after two year $332/mo lease. My "buy-out" for that lease was I think somewhere in the low to mid $30ks. The same vehicle used was mid to high $20ks. So then I looked at what Lucid Air, Tesla S Plaid, Porsche Taycan, and Mercedes EQS were going for purchased off lease. And considering that due to no friction based propulsion and continuous OTA software updates, a low mileage luxury EV would probably be a BETTER car than the same car was when originally put in service. I have not been disappointed.

 

[erigion]

https://group.mercedes-benz.com/technologie/autonomes-fahren/fahren/punkt-zu-punkt-navigation.html

I think this is the first firm announcement by a car maker regarding the public use/timeline of nvidia's self driving stack in vehicles that isn't just "coming later." This is for both supervised highway and urban driving. It looks like their newly released or upcoming cars (CLA, GLC, C-class, GLA) are only running one Nvidia Drive Orin (same setup that the Air has). I would assume only those, and future, models will be getting this feature.

Perhaps city ADAS could come to the Air after all.

 

[David R.]

Lucid announced something during the Investor presentation in March. From pg 107:

"DreamDrive Pro $69 –199 / mo. Tiered by ADAS level (L2++ to L4) H1 2027"

This was made under the previous management team so take these prices and timeline with a grain of salt.

This presentation also made it clear that hands free city driving would not be coming to this generation of Air. Again, made under the previous management team but the Air's hardware makes it difficult to see any kind of supervised point to point ADAS.

I am just seeing this now and had no idea of the monthly subscriptions fees being contemplated. Dumb question: are these fees applicable only to Airs that were not factory equipped with Dream Drive Pro? Or will owners of vehicles with Dream Drive Pro have to pay the monthly fees as well but will receive additional ADAS features not currently in the feature set?

 

[borski]

I am just seeing this now and had no idea of the monthly subscriptions fees being contemplated. Dumb question: are these fees applicable only to Airs that were not factory equipped with Dream Drive Pro? Or will owners of vehicles with Dream Drive Pro have to pay the monthly fees as well but will receive additional ADAS features not currently in the feature set?

Short answer is nobody knows, but the prevailing assumption is anyone who bought DDP will be grandfathered in, as it would otherwise piss a lot of people off.

Lucid has never actually said that though, so it’s possible the prevailing assumption is incorrect.

 

[David R.]

Short answer is nobody knows, but the prevailing assumption is anyone who bought DDP will be grandfathered in, as it would otherwise piss a lot of people off.

Lucid has never actually said that though, so it’s possible the prevailing assumption is incorrect.

Thanks Borski! Interesting legal questions presented here. Sorry, I am a lawyer, and we do think about hypotheticals like this all too often :>). Yes, we need more hobbies...

I looked at my window sticker and here are the itemized costs for my 2023 AT: $107,400 base price, along with Surround Sound Pro ($4,000), Glass Canopy Roof ($4,500), and Dream Drive Pro ($10,000) which states as follows: "Including Future Ready Hardware for Semi-Autonomous Driving Functionality"; "Highway Assist"; and "Surround View Monitoring with Blind Spot Display."

The total sticker price was $127,550 including destination charges of $1,650. The lawyer in me says that Lucid is bound by these representations in the sticker description, no more and no less. I don't think that the description above legally precludes Lucid from charging me a monthly access fee for additional services/features not present on the sale date if I wanted to subscribe. For my use case, I haven't used the DDP features very much at all as I was waiting for them to mature into safe and reliable modes of travel. I use my 2018 Tesla Model S for self driving features. I bought that car used and I purchased FSD Supervised at a cost of $2,000 so I recently received the FSD V14.3 Lite HW3 software upgrade at no additional cost. At this point, it appears that Lucid has matured their Air model software into a safe driver assistance feature, and I will be trying it out shortly.

However, it should be noted that the price I paid for the car was $90K, which is far less than the base price, so the question that could be fairly asked is "Did I pay for DDP?" The answer depends on your point of view, I guess. My view is that I sure did, albeit at less than the sticker price, and there's no way to extricate any feature from the bundle that came with the car at the date of sale, regardless of the final price paid. There should be no subscription fee imposed by Lucid for those features. Beyond that is fair game for Lucid, I think, and I wouldn't be upset in the slightest if they did charge a subscription fee for new/additional features.

Any thoughts?

 

[borski]

Thanks Borski! Interesting legal questions presented here. Sorry, I am a lawyer, and we do think about hypotheticals like this all too often :>). Yes, we need more hobbies...

I looked at my window sticker and here are the itemized costs for my 2023 AT: $107,400 base price, along with Surround Sound Pro ($4,000), Glass Canopy Roof ($4,500), and Dream Drive Pro ($10,000) which states as follows: "Including Future Ready Hardware for Semi-Autonomous Driving Functionality"; "Highway Assist"; and "Surround View Monitoring with Blind Spot Display."

The total sticker price was $127,550 including destination charges of $1,650. The lawyer in me says that Lucid is bound by these representations in the sticker description, no more and no less. I don't think that the description above legally precludes Lucid from charging me a monthly access fee for additional services/features not present on the sale date if I wanted to subscribe. For my use case, I haven't used the DDP features very much at all as I was waiting for them to mature into safe and reliable modes of travel. I use my 2018 Tesla Model S for self driving features. I bought that car used and I purchased FSD Supervised at a cost of $2,000 so I recently received the FSD V14.3 Lite HW3 software upgrade at no additional cost. At this point, it appears that Lucid has matured their Air model software into a safe driver assistance feature, and I will be trying it out shortly.

However, it should be noted that the price I paid for the car was $90K, which is far less than the base price, so the question that could be fairly asked is "Did I pay for DDP?" The answer depends on your point of view, I guess. My view is that I sure did, albeit at less than the sticker price, and there's no way to extricate any feature from the bundle that came with the car at the date of sale, regardless of the final price paid. There should be no subscription fee imposed by Lucid for those features. Beyond that is fair game for Lucid, I think, and I wouldn't be upset in the slightest if they did charge a subscription fee for new/additional features.

Any thoughts?

Sure sounds like you’re a lawyer