Ionna rocks

[dbsb3233]

Ha, I wish! It does mostly line up with JD Power, Ionna on top and Tesla solid but not king anymore.

The one that doesn't match is EVgo, JD Power has them near the bottom (which lines up with @RandomDesign experience) and Lucid owners have them tied for first. Small sample though so I'd bet that one comes back down to earth once more people log their sessions.

EA at the bottom didn't surprise me one bit.

I wouldn't put EA at the bottom overall.

If the only criteria is dependability of individual chargers, OK, probably so. But for coverage they're #1 for me, and have been for the entire 6 years of my EV journeys. EA is the reason I bought an EV. Tesla was worthless back then (and still is on parts of my routes with useless V2s). Nobody else comes remotely close to EA for covering rural America (road trip America), even today. They filled nearly all the important gaps at proper intervals where others didn't. And they've been doing it with 350kw (really more like 365) max power all along.

Yes, there's the known issues with individual chargers that while much better now, still forces us to do the EA shuffle (move over to the next charger when the first one isn't working right). But there's a reason that most of our road trip charges still happen on EA.

 

[martinjlm]

....

EA at the bottom didn't surprise me one bit.

I wouldn't put EA at the bottom overall.

If the only criteria is dependability of individual chargers, OK, probably so. But for coverage they're #1 for me, and have been for the entire 6 years of my EV journeys. EA is the reason I bought an EV. Tesla was worthless back then (and still is on parts of my routes with useless V2s). Nobody else comes remotely close to EA for covering rural America (road trip America), even today. They filled nearly all the important gaps at proper intervals where others didn't. And they've been doing it with 350kw (really more like 365) max power all along.

Yes, there's the known issues with individual chargers that while much better now, still forces us to do the EA shuffle (move over to the next charger when the first one isn't working right). But there's a reason that most of our road trip charges still happen on EA.

I've had mostly good experiences with EA. The biggest issues that I can recall is that in really cold weather (single digit F) they charge REALLY slow. I'm talking 30 - 60 kW. But I've not tried other DCFC in the same conditions so I don't have a point of comparison. We'll see what this upcoming winter brings.

 

[knewman]

Weird to have to start charging in the Walmart app because it's hidden several menus deep under auto services but it worked great.

This kind of crap drives me nuts, and I believe stands as one of the barriers to mainstream EV adoption. I also believe Ionna's aversion to this is one of the reasons they're so highly ranked.

 

[dbsb3233]

This kind of crap drives me nuts, and I believe stands as one of the barriers to mainstream EV adoption. I also believe Ionna's aversion to this is one of the reasons they're so highly ranked.

Walmart is adding credit card readers like Ionna has, but for whatever reason they chose not to initially. Not sure if there was a tangible reason for that (delays?) or whether it was just a decision to try and promote their app to generate other sales (which I could see).

 

[Adnillien]

I wouldn't put EA at the bottom overall.

If the only criteria is dependability of individual chargers, OK, probably so. But for coverage they're #1 for me, and have been for the entire 6 years of my EV journeys. EA is the reason I bought an EV. Tesla was worthless back then (and still is on parts of my routes with useless V2s). Nobody else comes remotely close to EA for covering rural America (road trip America), even today. They filled nearly all the important gaps at proper intervals where others didn't. And they've been doing it with 350kw (really more like 365) max power all along.

Yes, there's the known issues with individual chargers that while much better now, still forces us to do the EA shuffle (move over to the next charger when the first one isn't working right). But there's a reason that most of our road trip charges still happen on EA.

I agree with you. EA is slow to repair individual chargers and that does lead to long waiting times. The thing that many of these statistics miss is if you can get a charge versus a wait. I rate Tesla much lower than EA because when Tesla has problems in rural areas the entire site is down and unless there are other charging options nearby you are screwed. I will point out Tesla chargers in Kayenta AZ and Blanding UT as examples where there are no other fast charging options that have a history of problems. If you cannot count on a site to work it is of no value for a road trip.

 

[9point81]

Walmart is adding credit card readers like Ionna has, but for whatever reason they chose not to initially. Not sure if there was a tangible reason for that (delays?) or whether it was just a decision to try and promote their app to generate other sales (which I could see).

Same reason they didnt have Apple/Samsung pay options at their stores(they are finally undoing this). They want to have that valuable data. They tried to make you have to use the app for charging but are backtracking and supposed to be putting in credit card payment terminals at their stalls. It just makes charging that much harder and frustrating for people to have to be forced into these situations. Tap to pay or preferably, plug and charge, needs to be available on all networks.

 

[dbsb3233]

Same reason they didnt have Apple/Samsung pay options at their stores(they are finally undoing this). They want to have that valuable data. They tried to make you have to use the app for charging but are backtracking and supposed to be putting in credit card payment terminals at their stalls. It just makes charging that much harder and frustrating for people to have to be forced into these situations. Tap to pay or preferably, plug and charge, needs to be available on all networks.

Yep. For years Tesla was considered the gold standard for DCFC, and their drivers always poo-poo'd the need for card readers. Which was fine for their own vehicles staying within their own ecosystem. Multiple CPOs tried to follow the Tesla model a bit too much, thinking they could get by without card readers (didn't help that EA's were often broken). Turns out the old school gasoline pump model still holds a lot of value, as people got sick of having to register an account and app for every CPO. That's fine if you're getting the added benefit of P&C, but not if you just want an ad hoc charge. Should just be able to pull up to any station and tap a card like everyone is used to with gas, at minimum.

 

[HC_79]

If the only criteria is dependability of individual chargers, OK, probably so.

You hit the nail on the head. Coverage doesn't mean much if you can't count on the site when you pull in.

That's been EA's problem for years, and it compounds. Their sites are small with often 4 to 6 stalls on average and in my experience at least one is always down, sometimes two. So a 6-stall site is really a 4-stall site. Then the stalls that do work often don't deliver, 90% of the time at EA I'm looking at "charging limited by charger."

Does the charger work? Yes.
Is it reliable? No.

And the ripple effect is real, cars sit longer because they're charging slower, the line grows, everyone waiting gets frustrated. Tesla has broken stalls too, but when a site has 20 of them, two down and a couple slow ones barely register.

I'd also argue EA's reliability is a big part of why nearly every automaker in the US jumped to NACS. If the largest CCS network had been dependable, there would have been far less pressure to adopt Tesla's connector and get access to Superchargers. Automakers heard the complaints from their owners loud and clear.

For context. That's what the network score on the LucidTracker charging map measures, not "does it charge," but "does it deliver what it advertises." Each fast-charge session logged by a LucidTracker+ or Trailblazer car gets scored on the peak kW the car actually pulled versus the station's advertised rate (capped at the car's own max, so a 250 kW car at a 350 kW stall isn't penalized). It also only counts sessions that started at 40% or lower, so someone plugging in at 60% and topping off to 100% doesn't drag a network down with a taper-limited peak, the car has to have had a real shot at hitting full speed. Delivered-over-advertised counts as met, never as bonus. A site that advertises 350 kW and works fine but cars are peaking at 100 kW is exactly what pulls a score down, and that pattern is showing up on EA far more than anyone else. It's a small dataset still, but that's the same story I've lived for five years.

EA has been so bad for me in California that I simply can't trust them anymore. I hadn't touched EA once since getting the Gravity, but at Monterey Car Week the EA site was just down the road while the nearest Supercharger was a further drive, so I figured I'd give them another shot. Six stalls, two broken. Got lucky that someone was pulling out so I could grab a spot. Then came the whole song and dance, plug in, nothing, unplug, plug in again, repeat, before it finally started. Then when it finally started I was speed limited for the entire session. With Tesla, I plug in and it just works, first attempt, every single time (for me at least). It's a night and day experience. I'll take a 225 kW cap on a Supercharger any day over rolling the dice at EA and getting 100 kW.

 

[dbsb3233]

You hit the nail on the head. Coverage doesn't mean much if you can't count on the site when you pull in.

I'd turn that around some. Yes, if you can't get a charge at the station at all, then coverage doesn't mean anything. But that's only happened to me maybe 3 times out of at least 300 EA charges over the last 6 years. It was added annoyance having to do the EA shuffle maybe 1/3rd of the time (move over to the next charger), but that annoyance pales in comparison to not being able to get a charge at the station at all.

Their issues did (still do?) seem to vary regionally though. I'd always heard the worst EA experiences from drivers in California. Perhaps the much heavier EV usage there wore those our faster, and we all know EA's maintenance schedule when something broke was woefully slow. Plus there have always been way more DCFC stations in CA to compete with, so drivers there have more options to compare to.

But for many of the rest of us between the coasts, EA has been a godsend. Driving across UT or WY or KS, the alternative (if there was one at all) was often a 50kw or 75kw CP, or some state-installed off-brand. And we didn't have heavy usage, so 4 chargers was usually sufficient per station. If I had to slide over to a 2nd charger after a first failed attempt, no biggie as the alternative was usually SO much worse. For us, coverage was by far the biggest factor.

But yeah, the equation was probably different in much of CA and maybe some other coastal states with heavier usage. (Although personally we've usually had no problem with EA in CA. But that's usually on 395 in the eastern part of the state. We rarely make it as far as the coast.)

 

[raleighone]

Yeah, beggars can't be choosers, right? EA was the only option for me in some places out West. The few I used were always in the middle of a Walmart parking lot, oddly positioned in banks of 4...with 2 lower speed 150's and 2 350/kw higher speed. Did I pull into the wrong spot every time? Yep. lol But they saved me in a couple locations, so no complaints!

BTW-I was pleasantly surprised that nearly every non-Tesla station I used (Ionna, EA, Chargepoint) was able to read ApplePay just by holding my phone up to it. (and leaning down so it sees my face as I hold it against the reader...lol)

 

[9point81]

I'd turn that around some. Yes, if you can't get a charge at the station at all, then coverage doesn't mean anything. But that's only happened to me maybe 3 times out of at least 300 EA charges over the last 6 years. It was added annoyance having to do the EA shuffle maybe 1/3rd of the time (move over to the next charger), but that annoyance pales in comparison to not being able to get a charge at the station at all.

Their issues did (still do?) seem to vary regionally though. I'd always heard the worst EA experiences from drivers in California. Perhaps the much heavier EV usage there wore those our faster, and we all know EA's maintenance schedule when something broke was woefully slow. Plus there have always been way more DCFC stations in CA to compete with, so drivers there have more options to compare to.

But for many of the rest of us between the coasts, EA has been a godsend. Driving across UT or WY or KS, the alternative (if there was one at all) was often a 50kw or 75kw CP, or some state-installed off-brand. And we didn't have heavy usage, so 4 chargers was usually sufficient per station. If I had to slide over to a 2nd charger after a first failed attempt, no biggie as the alternative was usually SO much worse. For us, coverage was by far the biggest factor.

But yeah, the equation was probably different in much of CA and maybe some other coastal states with heavier usage. (Although personally we've usually had no problem with EA in CA. But that's usually on 395 in the eastern part of the state. We rarely make it as far as the coast.)

EA was about the only thing out here for us in the east and south 6 years ago and it was almost always a crap shoot. Was I able to get a charge? Every single time. But man, it was a mess. Broken stalls, limited speeds. One of my first charges on our first road trip, the station locked up on my Taycan and would not release from the car at all. I was about to do the ultimate, where the Taycan has an emergency release function but it disconnects the charging port and you can't undo it without taking the car into service, when I called EA first and they rebooted the machine (those things were running XP btw!) and it let go of my car at that point. I didn't want to use them, but had not much choice back then. Another time in FL, the EA station and only real option for about 50 miles had one working stall....on Thanksgiving travel week...long line up to I think 8-10 cars waiting. Car that was charging, of course was a Bolt, and he wanted 100%. Nightmare of a session there. So I am SUPER glad to have more options, inlcduing Tesla which has never given me issues, but Ionna has by far been the best option and I will go out of my way a bit for them over any other network. As for EA, I went maybe twice to their network since Gravity but I try to avoid them entirely, even tho I know they've gotten better, I still seen the same issues on those two visits with slow charges and a broken stall or two. They are improving but have a long way to go if they want to get on the level of Ionna or Mercedes networks.

 

[Macgreiner]

Reliability has to trump everything else. If you are at zero and the DCFC is not working, you'd be willing to pay $ not c to make it work.

 

[dbsb3233]

Reliability has to trump everything else. If you are at zero and the DCFC is not working, you'd be willing to pay $ not c to make it work.

That and a station being where you need it in the first place (coverage).

Although at least a lack of coverage would be known ahead of time, and we'd just avoid that route altogether. Or avoid the whole trip. Or not drive an EV.

There's still some no-go routes in my travels for lack of coverage (well, usable coverage... there are many Tesla V2s on them).