Lucid Lemon Law

[LucidLetMeGo]

I’m going through arbitration with them right now.

You will request a buyback through the service department after a few weeks Lucid will decline and probably offer you three months worth of payments and give you information on how to file a complaint if you don’t want to accept their settlement.

You do arbitration with the Better Business Bureau auto line and you do everything through there. Takes a few months. Lucid will have their attorney represent them in arbitration.

I’ll make my own thread but I will tell you that Lucid argues that they are two different companies, one for manufacturing and one for service, and that your warranty is only with one of them. Failed multiple repairs (they say) don’t count because those are done by “Lucid Group” employees, and that “Lucid Manufacturing” -whom you bought the car from- does not actually sell or service cars, as such, not liable for failed repairs.

I don’t think that’s true; but that’s the angle they took with me.

Is this an in person arbitration? What was the outcome? I have heard mixed things about the BBB Auto Line.

 

[LucidLetMeGo]

Is this an in person arbitration? What was the outcome? I have heard mixed things about the BBB Auto Line.

BTW that is a ridiculous argument. They all roll up to the same umbrella...

 

[socktucker]

Is this an in person arbitration? What was the outcome? I have heard mixed things about the BBB Auto Line.

BBB Autoline via Zoom

I don’t have the outcome yet, I can sue them if they don’t buy it back and I’ll win, it’s been out of service almost 100 days and is still in service.

 

[borski]

BBB Autoline via Zoom

I don’t have the outcome yet, I can sue them if they don’t buy it back and I’ll win, it’s been out of service almost 100 days and is still in service.

Did you opt out of binding arbitration in the first 60 days? If not… you are bound to arbitration and cannot sue (except in small claims court, if there is a valid claim).

I am not a lawyer, but that is my understanding based on reading the sales contract.

 

[LucidLetMeGo]

Did you opt out of binding arbitration in the first 60 days? If not… you are bound to arbitration and cannot sue (except in small claims court, if there is a valid claim).

I am not a lawyer, but that is my understanding based on reading the sales contract.

I think it’s a 30 day requirement and I did not opt out within that time period. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[borski]

I think it’s a 30 day requirement and I did not opt out within that time period. Hindsight is 20/20.

60 days.

But yes, it’s something I always look for in agreements / contracts, and unfortunately most people don’t. There’s a few threads about it on the forum.

Almost every contract you find will have an arbitration clause; and they always provide a way to opt out.

Of note: opting out does not require you to sue. It simply gives you the option if anything goes wrong. You can still pick arbitration if you opt out; you just aren’t forced into binding arbitration.

 

[LucidLetMeGo]

60 days.

But yes, it’s something I always look for in agreements / contracts, and unfortunately most people don’t. There’s a few threads about it on the forum.

Almost every contract you find will have an arbitration clause; and they always provide a way to opt out.

Of note: opting out does not require you to sue. It simply gives you the option if anything goes wrong. You can still pick arbitration if you opt out; you just aren’t forced into binding arbitration.

That’s good to know. I’m within that time limit so I will keep that in mind.

 

[TahoeMichael]

I came across this forum dealing with issues with my six-week-old Lucid Gravity. Within 3 days of taking delivery, I complained to Lucid delivered that no one can hear me on the Bluetooth and that the third row A/C is not functioning. She responds with some troubleshooting (which didn't work) and then advised me to open a service ticket. I attempted to open a service ticket in late April - the first available appointment was July 22!

I have come to find out that the third row A/C issue is actually a design defect - my two small children do not trigger the weight sensors and I cannot bypass this on the Pilot Panel. I am located in Arizona where it was 110 degrees today. This car is advertised as a three-row family SUV, which is not accurate if the third row cannot receive air conditioning. This is a safety issue in Arizona.

I have since then attempted to escalate this issue through the proper channels. I told Customer Care yesterday that I want to unwind the lease transaction completely. He escalated it to the mediation team. Customer Care cannot provide any contact information, timeline, or anything regarding the mediation team. He said it may take weeks to hear something.

I am at a loss as to what to do. Should I be the squeaky wheel and continue to ask for a mediation contact? Should I file with the BBB Auto line? Should I retain an attorney? This is a brand new car. There are additional issues than what I have mentioned above (mainly software, but also a serious misrepresentation about charging capabilities made by Sales that was material to my lease decision).

In your situation, I'd probably contact a lawyer for advice. I am not a lawyer, so my opinion isn't worth much here. But my sense is that there could be important legal differences between buying a car with a design defect but is operating as designed (3rd row weight sensors not triggered) versus the company proving unable to fix the vehicle not operating as-designed. The specific laws of your state could well be relevant in sorting out how to best proceed.

 

[LucidLetMeGo]

In your situation, I'd probably contact a lawyer for advice. I am not a lawyer, so my opinion isn't worth much here. But my sense is that there could be important legal differences between buying a car with a design defect but is operating as designed (3rd row weight sensors not triggered) versus the company proving unable to fix the vehicle not operating as-designed. The specific laws of your state could well be relevant in sorting out how to best proceed.

Thank you. I have consulted with one lawyer. I would like to hopefully resolve things with the mediation team but I cannot wait months for a response.

 

[borski]

That’s good to know. I’m within that time limit so I will keep that in mind.

It is an automated email response and there is no harm in opting out, to my knowledge.

(I am not a lawyer and this isn’t legal advice)

 

[socktucker]

Did you opt out of binding arbitration in the first 60 days? If not… you are bound to arbitration and cannot sue (except in small claims court, if there is a valid claim).

I am not a lawyer, but that is my understanding based on reading the sales contract.

I can sue, Lucid is bound by arbitration, consumer is not. Lucid has to accept the arbitration outcome, consumer does not. I learned a lot today.

 

[socktucker]

Thank you. I have consulted with one lawyer. I would like to hopefully resolve things with the mediation team but I cannot wait months for a response.

You’re waiting months either way. Lucid themselves initiated my buyback then refused it themselves in February. Now it’s June.

 

[borski]

I can sue, Lucid is bound by arbitration, consumer is not. Lucid has to accept the arbitration outcome, consumer does not. I learned a lot today.

You're right about BBB Auto Line, and we were conflating two things. The BBB decision binds Lucid if you accept it, and you're free to reject it. That asymmetry is accurate.

But rejecting the BBB decision doesn't put you in court. Section 12 of the Lucid order terms is a separate, contractual arbitration agreement (AAA). Unless you emailed [email protected] within 60 days of your order, rejecting BBB means your next stop is binding AAA arbitration, where the award binds both sides and court review is very limited. Small claims is the only real court carve-out.

So reject the BBB outcome if it's bad. Just don't plan on suing and winning. Plan on a second arbitration. And honestly, at almost 100 days out of service, talk to a lemon law attorney before AAA if you haven't already. They work on fee-shifting, so it should cost you nothing if you win. Lemon law attorneys arbitrate constantly. AAA consumer arbitration is where a huge chunk of lemon cases actually land now, for example, because every manufacturer bakes these clauses in. The attorney represents you in the arbitration. So while you're not in court, you can have an attorney represent you.

---

Section 12 of the Lucid Order Terms:
12. Disputes, Arbitration, Waiver of Jury Demand. If either youor we have a dispute, the party raising the dispute will send a written notice of the dispute to the other, along with the requested resolution. You can send your request to us at [email protected]. If a dispute is not resolved within 60days, you and we agree that any dispute or claim between you andus or relating in any way to this Agreement will be resolved by binding arbitration, rather than in court, except that either you orwe may assert claims in small claims court if the claims qualify. There is no judge or jury in arbitration, and court review of an arbitration award is limited. However, an arbitrator can award onan individual basis the same damages and relief as a court(including injunctive and declaratory relief or statutory damages)and must follow this Agreement just as a court would. Claimsarising out of or relating to the validity, application, scope, enforceability, or interpretation of this provision (the “ArbitrationAgreement”) shall also be decided by an arbitrator and will be governed by the Federal Arbitration Act, 9 U.S.C § 1 et seq.(“FAA”).

Unless otherwise agreed, the arbitration will be conducted by theAmerican Arbitration Association (“AAA”). The arbitration must be conducted in accordance with AAA’s Consumer Arbitration Rules, which are available at www.adr.org. The arbitration process shall include the appointment of a neutral arbitrator. A party who desires to initiate arbitration must provide the other party with a written Demand for Arbitration. AAA provides a form Demand forArbitration – Consumer Arbitration Rules at www.adr.org. We will reimburse you for the cost of the arbitration unless the arbitrator determines your claims are frivolous. You may choose to have the arbitration conducted by telephone or video, based on written submissions, or in person in the county where you live or at another mutually agreed location.

WE EACH AGREE THAT YOU AND WE MAY BRING DISPUTES AGAINST THE OTHER ONLY ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS ANDNOT AS A PLAINTIFF OR CLASS MEMBER IN A CLASS, COLLECTIVE, CONSOLIDATED, OR REPRESENTATIVE ACTION. The arbitrator cannot combine more than one person's claim into a single case, and cannot preside over any class, collective, consolidated, or representative arbitration proceeding(unless we both agree to change this in writing). We also both agree that you or we may bring suit in court to: 1) enjoin infringement or other misuse of intellectual property rights; 2) file bankruptcy; 3) enforce a security interest in the Vehicle by repossession; 4) take legal action in court to enforce the arbitrator’s decision; or 5) request that a court review whether the arbitrator exceeded the authority granted by this ArbitrationAgreement.

You and we agree that discovery set forth in the AAA rules should be adequate for most claims, but to the extent you and we cannot agree on the scope of discovery, you and we agree that discovery shall never exceed the scope contemplated by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and must be cost-effective and proportionate to the amount in dispute. Discovery that can be responded to within twenty hours of work shall be performed at the cost of the responding party. Any further discovery shall be at the pre-paid expense of the requesting party.

You also agree that regardless of any statute or law to the contrary, any claim or cause of action arising out of or related to these Terms must be filed within one (1) year after such claim or cause of action arose or be forever barred. Any portion of this Arbitration Agreement that is unenforceable shall be severed, and the remaining portions shall be enforced. But if the waiver of class action rights is deemed unenforceable in connection with a claim involving class allegations, the entire Arbitration Agreement shall be unenforceable.If multiple claims or remedies are asserted in one action and one or more of those claims or remedies would not be subject to arbitration, you and we agree that the claims or remedies that would not be subject to arbitration must be stayed until all claims or remedies that are subject to arbitration have been resolved.You and we also agree that if claims or remedies are asserted against multiple parties, some of whom are not required to arbitrate, the claims or remedies subject to arbitration must be severed.

Opt-Out: You may opt-out of the Arbitration Agreement, within 60 days from the date you place your Order, by sending an email to [email protected] from the email associated with your order with “Arbitration Opt-Out” in the subject line and indicating your request to opt-out of the arbitration provision in the body of the email.

 

[Truthlesshunter]

You're right about BBB Auto Line, and we were conflating two things. The BBB decision binds Lucid if you accept it, and you're free to reject it. That asymmetry is accurate.

But rejecting the BBB decision doesn't put you in court. Section 12 of the Lucid order terms is a separate, contractual arbitration agreement (AAA). Unless you emailed [email protected] within 60 days of your order, rejecting BBB means your next stop is binding AAA arbitration, where the award binds both sides and court review is very limited. Small claims is the only real court carve-out.

So reject the BBB outcome if it's bad. Just don't plan on suing and winning. Plan on a second arbitration. And honestly, at almost 100 days out of service, talk to a lemon law attorney before AAA if you haven't already. They work on fee-shifting, so it should cost you nothing if you win. Lemon law attorneys arbitrate constantly. AAA consumer arbitration is where a huge chunk of lemon cases actually land now, for example, because every manufacturer bakes these clauses in. The attorney represents you in the arbitration. So while you're not in court, you can have an attorney represent you.

---

Section 12 of the Lucid Order Terms:
12. Disputes, Arbitration, Waiver of Jury Demand. If either youor we have a dispute, the party raising the dispute will send a written notice of the dispute to the other, along with the requested resolution. You can send your request to us at [email protected]. If a dispute is not resolved within 60days, you and we agree that any dispute or claim between you andus or relating in any way to this Agreement will be resolved by binding arbitration, rather than in court, except that either you orwe may assert claims in small claims court if the claims qualify. There is no judge or jury in arbitration, and court review of an arbitration award is limited. However, an arbitrator can award onan individual basis the same damages and relief as a court(including injunctive and declaratory relief or statutory damages)and must follow this Agreement just as a court would. Claimsarising out of or relating to the validity, application, scope, enforceability, or interpretation of this provision (the “ArbitrationAgreement”) shall also be decided by an arbitrator and will be governed by the Federal Arbitration Act, 9 U.S.C § 1 et seq.(“FAA”).

Unless otherwise agreed, the arbitration will be conducted by theAmerican Arbitration Association (“AAA”). The arbitration must be conducted in accordance with AAA’s Consumer Arbitration Rules, which are available at www.adr.org. The arbitration process shall include the appointment of a neutral arbitrator. A party who desires to initiate arbitration must provide the other party with a written Demand for Arbitration. AAA provides a form Demand forArbitration – Consumer Arbitration Rules at www.adr.org. We will reimburse you for the cost of the arbitration unless the arbitrator determines your claims are frivolous. You may choose to have the arbitration conducted by telephone or video, based on written submissions, or in person in the county where you live or at another mutually agreed location.

WE EACH AGREE THAT YOU AND WE MAY BRING DISPUTES AGAINST THE OTHER ONLY ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS ANDNOT AS A PLAINTIFF OR CLASS MEMBER IN A CLASS, COLLECTIVE, CONSOLIDATED, OR REPRESENTATIVE ACTION. The arbitrator cannot combine more than one person's claim into a single case, and cannot preside over any class, collective, consolidated, or representative arbitration proceeding(unless we both agree to change this in writing). We also both agree that you or we may bring suit in court to: 1) enjoin infringement or other misuse of intellectual property rights; 2) file bankruptcy; 3) enforce a security interest in the Vehicle by repossession; 4) take legal action in court to enforce the arbitrator’s decision; or 5) request that a court review whether the arbitrator exceeded the authority granted by this ArbitrationAgreement.

You and we agree that discovery set forth in the AAA rules should be adequate for most claims, but to the extent you and we cannot agree on the scope of discovery, you and we agree that discovery shall never exceed the scope contemplated by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and must be cost-effective and proportionate to the amount in dispute. Discovery that can be responded to within twenty hours of work shall be performed at the cost of the responding party. Any further discovery shall be at the pre-paid expense of the requesting party.

You also agree that regardless of any statute or law to the contrary, any claim or cause of action arising out of or related to these Terms must be filed within one (1) year after such claim or cause of action arose or be forever barred. Any portion of this Arbitration Agreement that is unenforceable shall be severed, and the remaining portions shall be enforced. But if the waiver of class action rights is deemed unenforceable in connection with a claim involving class allegations, the entire Arbitration Agreement shall be unenforceable.If multiple claims or remedies are asserted in one action and one or more of those claims or remedies would not be subject to arbitration, you and we agree that the claims or remedies that would not be subject to arbitration must be stayed until all claims or remedies that are subject to arbitration have been resolved.You and we also agree that if claims or remedies are asserted against multiple parties, some of whom are not required to arbitrate, the claims or remedies subject to arbitration must be severed.

Opt-Out: You may opt-out of the Arbitration Agreement, within 60 days from the date you place your Order, by sending an email to [email protected] from the email associated with your order with “Arbitration Opt-Out” in the subject line and indicating your request to opt-out of the arbitration provision in the body of the email.

...are you sure you're not a lawyer?


This is legit great information (albeit worthless to me in the frozen tundra above the USA). Still good reference points and makes sense.

 

[borski]

...are you sure you're not a lawyer?


This is legit great information (albeit worthless to me in the frozen tundra above the USA). Still good reference points and makes sense.

Haha yeah I just like the law.

And, perhaps more importantly, I like learning things.

 

[LucidGoosey]

Thank you. I have consulted with one lawyer. I would like to hopefully resolve things with the mediation team but I cannot wait months for a response.

Having just gone through this, make sure you document everything. Timestamp photos, things that were said, if you live in a one-party-recording state, then record conversations, bring witnesses who sat in the third row and said it was unbearable / unusable. Your core argument should remain "rear-passenger HVAC does not function and this is a safety hazard for children".

(Why Lucid decided to add pressure sensors to turn on the HVAC instead of just letting the driver control it is a bonkers engineering failure, but here we are again.)

 

[Brian_N]

Simple then. Just google lemon lawyer and you’ll be given plenty of bottom feeders.

In all honesty, you just need to see what the criteria is for your state and if you think you meet that then you can speak to Lucid directly and present your case.

I do not want to hire lawyer but Lucid is not responding my emails about bu back requests. Do you have any recommendations for me?

 

[socktucker]

I do not want to hire lawyer but Lucid is not responding my emails about bu back requests. Do you have any recommendations for me?

even if you meet your states criteria, Lucid will fight you, just FYI. They also send a lawyer to mediation and you should have one, because they do.

If they respond to you at all. There are many of us going through the same thing.

 

[ChestRockwell]

I opened a case with Lucid I expect no results

 

[ashanlia]

I didn't even bother going the arbitration route. I just found a reputable lemon attorney who handled the entire process. It took about 6 months, but I finally signed the paperwork last week. Their legal team drags their feet , they are unresponsive until the court compels them to respond. This took almost a year for us. The attorney mentioned that he has never seen this with a car manufacturer's legal team. Long story short, the attorney buried Lucid in discovery until they finally offered a settlement before the trial. Unfortunately, the settlement did not include the attorney's fees.

In other news, been a couple months now with the Gravity and not a single issue. A very solid and well built car so far. So glad I haven't had to make a single 1 hour drive to service.