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Kyle shares more about Lucid Cosmos

erigion said:
Sure, let's ask Tesla owners what statements made about future self-driving plans at Investor's Days actually mean.
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I was hoping Lucid was better than that. Not to mention, it's a low bar to beat Tesla at communications. We'll see.
 
TahoeMichael said:
I watched the whole thing. First, I think it's obvious that the OOS guys are just incredibly naive about the business side of running a car company. In particular, not really understanding the difference between an investor event and a media event struck me as just odd. Next, I think Lucid deserves the constant bashing it gets about execution. But I also think the OOS guys are just off about the supposed lack of emotional appeal of Lucid's vehicles. Think they a Lucid has no soul and thus won't appeal to the market, and yet the Air outsells every competitive EV, and most competitive ICE vehicles. The Gravity it's too early to say, but it seems like Gravity sales are also doing well. I think that if Lucid can launch the Cosmos without being beaten up about quality, then the company's strengths will sell a lot of vehicles.

On a different note, I found the discussion of technology advances increasingly starting to happen in the mid-market vehicles to be interesting. I don't know what I think that will do to the more expensive luxury segment that Air and Gravity play in. I think we're at a moment where the EV industry (at least in the USA) is just getting started in the mid-market, and so the premium segment still has a lot of appeal. But if a mid-market Lucid is more technically advanced than the Air/Gravity, costs half as much, and is missing very little, will I still think that a Gravity makes sense to buy? Near as I can tell, the Cosmo will sacrifice space due to being a smaller vehicle (while still having class leading packaging), will have a slightly less refined suspension (while still having class leading driving dynamics), will have a slightly less good display screen setup, will probably (?) have somewhat less range (while still having very fast charging), and will offer better autonomy. Will I really want to spend twice as much on a Gravity once product launches are done and the mid-market competition is more established? This isn't a question about Lucid alone, as other companies are also launching the best technology in the mid-market.
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This should be why Tesla is dropping the S and X, but maybe they use the magic 8 ball. If Lucid gets huge volumes with its midsize platform then this will probably copy Tesla’s path, but it also really depends on what they do for a permanent ceo and their vision for the company. I am uncertain whether making Marc permanent is a great idea, but continuing to have an interim ceo with cosmos now firmly on deck is worse - some stability wouldn’t hurt the company’s chances.
 
Nunya said:
This is supposedly the first SAE L4 car you can buy for personal use and not even discussion on that point? I know, not much to talk about with a static display but a conversation would be nice.
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I would look at tensor, probably not great driving dynamics nor exceptional range, but likely to be first L4ish vehicle available, if they do what they say that is. Should be available by the end of this year beginning of next.
 
Nunya said:
This is supposedly the first SAE L4 car you can buy for personal use and not even discussion on that point? I know, not much to talk about with a static display but a conversation would be nice.
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I believe the Mercedes CLA will beat Cosmos to the punch, but actual achievement will depend on subsequent software. Luckily for Lucid, Mercedes hasn't shown greatness in software, either.
 
TahoeMichael said:
I hope the Cosmos has blended braking. It'd be nice to be able to chose between 1 pedal driving and traditional braking, and get the benefit of regen whichever style you prefer.
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I discussed this very question with Lucid executives in the past. They simply don't believe in it. They say that it reduces braking feel. Therefore I very much doubt we will see it in a Lucid in the future. I did have this type of braking in my Jaguar I-Pace, and I thought it worked quite well.
 
Lucid keeps building cars for engineers instead of normal luxury buyers. The audacity of a 3 band eq and a shitty 9 speaker system in a $80k car can not be excused by 4mi/kw when it’s going downhill with the wind on a 69 degree day with 80 SOC Jupiter in alignment with mars or whatever it takes to actually get that. Atmos? Nobody cares about Atmos.

Fix it. Make the stereo better. Why is this a hill they died on? That’s just one example of baffling decisions they have made. Why did you release a car with constant fob issues? What’s with the seat motors? Who signed off on that joke of a HUD? None of those things should happen! Especially after promising a smooth Gravity launch.

Its so frustrating watching Lucid snatch defeat from the claws of victory over and over again. They built (in my opinion) the best performing SUV in automotive history. It’s eats AMG for lunch and M for dinner. And every single one of them needs service and it’s backed up for months. Unreal!!
 
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socktucker said:
Eh they don’t really seem to push reviewers that way, for better or worse. At least you get real insight unlike almost all other manufacturer enabled reviewers.
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Again, I agree. I wasn't suggesting that they were pushing him or any reviewer. But I assume they would have hoped for/preferred a more positive review overall than compliments on the car and engineering alongside the critical/less than glowing comments about the company etc...
 
TahoeMichael said:
I watched the whole thing. First, I think it's obvious that the OOS guys are just incredibly naive about the business side of running a car company. In particular, not really understanding the difference between an investor event and a media event struck me as just odd. Next, I think Lucid deserves the constant bashing it gets about execution. But I also think the OOS guys are just off about the supposed lack of emotional appeal of Lucid's vehicles. Think they a Lucid has no soul and thus won't appeal to the market, and yet the Air outsells every competitive EV, and most competitive ICE vehicles. The Gravity it's too early to say, but it seems like Gravity sales are also doing well. I think that if Lucid can launch the Cosmos without being beaten up about quality, then the company's strengths will sell a lot of vehicles.

On a different note, I found the discussion of technology advances increasingly starting to happen in the mid-market vehicles to be interesting. I don't know what I think that will do to the more expensive luxury segment that Air and Gravity play in. I think we're at a moment where the EV industry (at least in the USA) is just getting started in the mid-market, and so the premium segment still has a lot of appeal. But if a mid-market Lucid is more technically advanced than the Air/Gravity, costs half as much, and is missing very little, will I still think that a Gravity makes sense to buy? Near as I can tell, the Cosmo will sacrifice space due to being a smaller vehicle (while still having class leading packaging), will have a slightly less refined suspension (while still having class leading driving dynamics), will have a slightly less good display screen setup, will probably (?) have somewhat less range (while still having very fast charging), and will offer better autonomy. Will I really want to spend twice as much on a Gravity once product launches are done and the mid-market competition is more established? This isn't a question about Lucid alone, as other companies are also launching the best technology in the mid-market.
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Couldn't agree more. I love Kyle and his super nerdy engineering focus but they really need to get smart on the economics of the car industry to provide a more comprehensive view.
That said, I really disliked Tijnan's off-handedly dismissive tone. And for someone to have race tracks in his background to actually say "Lucid refuses to give up on driving dynamics" causes me to question his credibility. I literally got my AGT BECAUSE of the dynamics vs everything else. And as a Brand, it is Lucid's hallmark. Every model just has better driving dynamics than its competition. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Without a doubt, Lucid's have their issues. Their build quality, while improving, must get better. Their software team's dismissal indicates their recognition how important and subpar their experience has been in the age of the Software Defined Vehicle. And finally, while service has been hit or miss, I worry that that the quality variability will truly hit the test as they introduce a more mass market vehicle. The best selling Model Y will never go off road and I hope the Cosmos will be a better driving alternative to that.
 
MGRMLN said:
I really disliked Tijnan's off-handedly dismissive tone.
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Same. He came across like he had a chip on his shoulder and personal beef with Lucid for some reason. He was being a smart ass for the sake of being a smart ass at times.
 
Halodde said:
Again, I agree. I wasn't suggesting that they were pushing him or any reviewer. But I assume they would have hoped for/preferred a more positive review overall than compliments on the car and engineering alongside the critical/less than glowing comments about the company etc...
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Well they should make a better car then. I think Lucid has used up all their goodwill.

But I also think that reviewers likes being contrarian.
 
HC_79 said:
Same. He came across like he had a chip on his shoulder and personal beef with Lucid for some reason. He was being a smart ass for the sake of being a smart ass at times.
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Well he thought he was being ‘smart’ but he came off really uninformed and arrogant. Not a good look. Kyle should give him some feedback if he is going to be on OoS first reviews. Hurts their brand significantly IMO
 
socktucker said:
Well they should make a better car then. I think Lucid has used up all their goodwill.

But I also think that reviewers likes being contrarian.
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Fine to be contrarian to an extent. But at least be objective. Tijman wasn’t even close . He lost a lot of credibility in my opinion and will have to look at everything he does now with a question of whether he has a personal beef with the company.

I’m So sad for him to have to be the first reviewer invited to get a look at a new car, and had to sit thru a couple hrs of an investor meeting as well. 😢
 
RajD said:
Fine to be contrarian to an extent. But at least be objective. Tijman wasn’t even close . He lost a lot of credibility in my opinion and will have to look at everything he does now with a question of whether he has a personal beef with the company.

I’m So sad for him to have to be the first reviewer invited to get a look at a new car, and had to sit thru a couple hrs of an investor meeting as well. 😢
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Especially since it was LITERALLY called an investors meeting! Boo hoo.
 
socktucker said:
Lucid keeps building cars for engineers instead of normal luxury buyers. The audacity of a 3 band eq and a shitty 9 speaker system in a $80k car can not be excused by 4mi/kw when it’s going downhill with the wind on a 69 degree day with 80 SOC Jupiter in alignment with mars or whatever it takes to actually get that. Atmos? Nobody cares about Atmos.

Fix it. Make the stereo better. Why is this a hill they died on? That’s just one example of baffling decisions they have made. Why did you release a car with constant fob issues? What’s with the seat motors? Who signed off on that joke of a HUD? None of those things should happen! Especially after promising a smooth Gravity launch.

Its so frustrating watching Lucid snatch defeat from the claws of victory over and over again. They built (in my opinion) the best performing SUV in automotive history. It’s eats AMG for lunch and M for dinner. And every single one of them needs service and it’s backed up for months. Unreal!!
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Just a quick reminder: Statements like "Nobody cares about xyz" are demonstrably false and fairly counterproductive to any useful discussion.

"I don't care about xyz" is what you mean to say. Which is fine. Don't put thoughts into the rest of our minds.

I don't care about a 10-band graphic EQ. Because I always leave my stereo flat, trusting that the engineer who mixed the music and the engineer who tuned the stereo system know more than I do.

But that's just me.
 
RajD said:
Well he thought he was being ‘smart’ but he came off really uninformed and arrogant. Not a good look. Kyle should give him some feedback if he is going to be on OoS first reviews. Hurts their brand significantly IMO
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I thought the same... You could tell Kyle was getting uncomfortable with some of his remarks. Kinda painful to watch. But I thought Kyle's observations were spot on.
 
socktucker said:
Lucid keeps building cars for engineers instead of normal luxury buyers. The audacity of a 3 band eq and a shitty 9 speaker system in a $80k car can not be excused by 4mi/kw when it’s going downhill with the wind on a 69 degree day with 80 SOC Jupiter in alignment with mars or whatever it takes to actually get that. Atmos? Nobody cares about Atmos.

Fix it. Make the stereo better. Why is this a hill they died on? That’s just one example of baffling decisions they have made. Why did you release a car with constant fob issues? What’s with the seat motors? Who signed off on that joke of a HUD? None of those things should happen! Especially after promising a smooth Gravity launch.

Its so frustrating watching Lucid snatch defeat from the claws of victory over and over again. They built (in my opinion) the best performing SUV in automotive history. It’s eats AMG for lunch and M for dinner. And every single one of them needs service and it’s backed up for months. Unreal!!
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It’s a brand new car company, they are learning and fixing things as they go along. What else do you expect?
 
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