How long to keep an EV?

[HaltheAerialist]

I'd like to re-visit the buy vs. lease discussion for Gravity from a different angle: how long to you keep a car, and how long do you expect to keep an EV?

I have always kept my cars for quite a long time, for several reasons:
1) I feel that I'm getting the most value out of a car by owning it for a long time.
2) My needs and tastes don't change very quickly, so I my car does everything that I want and I enjoy it for a long time.
3) Every time I step into a car dealership, I feel as though I'm getting scammed and taken advantage of. I have never had a great car buying experience.
4) When I do replace my car, the new one is a significant upgrade, so I continue to recognize and appreciate it for years.

There seem to be many people on this forum who own or have owned many expensive vehicles, and replace them every few years. I'm trying to understand why so many of you do so. Do you enjoy the novelty and variety of getting something new every 2-3 years? Do you feel that each new vehicle is a significant improvement over the old one? Is there some new tech or feature every couple of years that you want to have? And does it bother you to have a perpetual car payment (such as getting a new lease every 2-3 years)? Do you feel as though you're losing money on the sales/trades, or do you have so much money that it doesn't matter?

Looking at EVs specifically, I've heard many people say that you should definitely lease at this point because they depreciate so quickly and technology is changing rapidly. As everyone has noted, the lease offers on Gravity are awful at the moment, which tends to turn me away from leasing. If you still advise leasing despite the high interest rate, I'm curious why. I especially ask, what new technology do you expect in the next 2-3 years that will be so compelling that you will want to replace your Gravity? I don't see any breakthroughs on the 2-3 year time horizon. Sure, some companies will come out with new car models. But in terms of technology, I foresee only incremental improvements--slightly more efficient motors, slightly better energy density batteries, slightly faster charging, small improvements in driving automation . . . assuming that I love the Gravity when I test drive it, what would make me want to replace it so soon? If I keep it for 8 years or so, the depreciation won't matter so much because I'll feel that I got my money's worth from it. And other than a slight loss of range over time, it shouldn't get any worse than the day I received it.

Others seem to see this differently, and I'd like to understand other perspectives to consider if I should change my car ownership habits.

 

[DeaneG]

... other than a slight loss of range over time, it shouldn't get any worse than the day I received it....

It should be substantially better actually, through OTA software improvements.

My wife like to keep cars forever. But coming from a technology background, I see the car's capabilities as limited by its hardware, and so it slowly falls behind what's possible now. So I prefer to change cars more often, maybe every five years.

The only big change I see coming is in solid-state batteries, which may make a 20-30% improvement in range at some increased cost several years from now. Or the same range at less cost.
Maybe also ADAS computing hardware, which has been improving rapidly.

Fixed-price online car purchasing is so much less stressful than buying at a dealership.

 

[Leftlane]

Don’t change anything based on what others do - you do you. Seems like a reasonable approach that works for you - I used to swap cars every year or so because I liked trying new things and there are a lot of great cars. Now I’ve had my 911 since 2011, my Cayenne since 2016, and plan on keeping my S Plaid until there are substantial updates or redesigns. As far as leasing, it does protect you from brutal depreciation and also owning obsolete or dated tech - I think we’ll see rapid advancements in battery and charging tech in the next few years. But if you own what you like and it continues to serve its purpose, then for sure owning forever is the cheapest way to go versus always upgrading to new.

 

[iThinkEV]

I have own quite a few cars over the years. And on the EV only journey since 2022 (got rid of my last ICE in 2022). Over the years, I’ve own the cars between 3-4 years. When I started my own Consulting company, took advantage of section 179, and I’ve been swapping cars every 2 years since. Because of 179, all the vehicles I’ve owned were SUVs (>6k lbs GVWR). With the exception of the 2 Models 3s and the Taycan CT. My current oldest vehicle is my 2017 Model 3 LR. Still runs fine, have FSD, and all the OTA updates that keep it current. I think EV longevity is way better than ICE. Especially with OTA updates, it’ll make it last a lot longer. With the exception to Porsche. Their OTA is crap. So maybe I’m spoil by the vertical Tesla integration. I’m hoping Lucid will be the same. EVs can easily last 10 years and still feel new IMHO.
The argument for leasing is valid, since EV tech changes so quickly. Most important is battery tech. Feels like Solid State is just around the corner. So in 10 years. Your EV’s tech might be 3 or 4 generations behind. Which is huge. My Taycan’s resale value dropped like a brick. 50% drop in 3 years. Ouch. And it’s not really OTA-able to the latest updates. So in that sense, it’s probably not wise to keep it for a long time, so longevity varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Tesla from that standpoint, is probably ahead of the pack. I will be a 1st time Lucid owner coming up with my Gravity DE order. I’m also hoping to keep it for a good 10 years, the Gravity reminds my of a couple of my past Range Rover Sports. it’s up their luxurious material and feel, and hopefully (haven’t driven one yet) in the handling and driving dynamics dept as well. The Taycan is my best handling car, but 2nd slowest in my fleet (that’s saying something). The X Plaid is the fastest, but feels like driving a boat comparing to the Taycan. My current Highland Model 3 Perf is a very good mix between (haven’t driving the new Y, but the Highland 3 is the best car Tesla made of all the 5 Teslas I’ve owned). So EVs are the future.
I would say. If you keep your car for a long time, and if the current tech is good enough and meets your daily needs (mostly battery and range), then you should have no issues deciding to BUY instead of lease the Gravity. My 2 cents. No need to deal with dealership and sales (unless you go with legacy automakers). I’m hoping I don’t have to sit through a 4 hour process when picking up my Gravity.

-iThinkEV-

 

[kurious]

I totally get the arc of your thinking here. Maybe it boils down to how happy you are in absolute terms VERSUS knowing what others are enjoying.
I've had my Pure AWD for 21 months, done 100% of scenarios I'd do with any vehicle, a few new challenges (like planning where & when to charge ahead of time, but I actually enjoy that, weirdo) -- I'm very confident I can endure the inevitable arc of technological improvement without valuing this car less, for at least five years. It's not for everyone: I have two other drivers in my family who don't do long distance driving like I do, so "hand me down while I upgrade" is our norm here. Few of my friends have any interest in EV's in general and I care not at all what anyone thinks of my choices or prestige. Your situation may or may not accommodate this. It's interesting to discuss the criteria!

 

[HaltheAerialist]

It should be substantially better actually, through OTA software improvements.

My wife like to keep cars forever. But coming from a technology background, I see the car's capabilities as limited by its hardware, and so it slowly falls behind what's possible now. So I prefer to change cars more often, maybe every five years.

The only big change I see coming is in solid-state batteries, which may make a 20-30% improvement in range at some increased cost several years from now. Or the same range at less cost.
Maybe also ADAS computing hardware, which has been improving rapidly.

Fixed-price online car purchasing is so much less stressful than buying at a dealership.

I hadn't read much about solid-state batteries before, so I looked them up. They seem promising, but they are still in the research stage, with issues of cost, scalability, and even the battery chemistry still being worked out. So, yes, it will be quite a few years before they end up in a production vehicle.

The improvements in ADAS are exciting (especially since I work in AI). But my interest in it is pretty much all-or-nothing. I'll probably want it when we achieve full level-5 self-driving. I don't see much value in the current systems that basically just help steer the car and change lanes for you. As I understand it, Lucid's system only operates on mapped highways. I hardly ever drive on those roads, so it's worthless to me. Automated parking would be nice, if it worked consistently. Right now, all I really want that I don't have in my current vehicle is speed-adaptive cruise control and automatic high-beam headlights. These features are common today, even in cars half the price of a Gravity.

 

[jered]

Our EV experience has been that it's felt "newer" longer because of the regular software updates and the reduced maintenance vs a "traditional" vehicle. The first part is technically unrelated to it being an EV, but only the "born electric" brands have taken this approach. We've had our X for six years and were planning to keep it 8-10 until this year. (We don't need two SUVs but we might keep it after we get a Gravity anyway because of how the Tesla resale value has crashed.)

 

[Batteryman]

8 years at least before we swap out our EV’s….OTA helps. But this only applies to ground up EV companies like Rivian, Lucid, Tesla. The ICE/EV manufacturers are still in the cycle of facelift every 2 years and a complete redesign every 4. They can’t break that habit.

 

[WeighingGravity]

Our EV experience has been that it's felt "newer" longer because of the regular software updates and the reduced maintenance vs a "traditional" vehicle.

This has been my experience as well. My 2017 Tesla S still looks and feels new. I think it helps that Tesla hasn't changed the S styling very much in that time frame, but the fact that pretty much everything in the interior is a very high-resolution screen, the cosmetics of which are updated so often, makes me want for nothing. By contrast, I remember owning a BMW that had an orange dot-matrix style display that was really cool looking when it came out, but within a few years looked really stale and dated. I have had similar sentiments with other cars and brands as well.

I think that owning an EV for an extended period of time helps justify the cost and the depreciation. The longer you drive it, the less the depreciation matters. Every car's resale value dwindles down to something pretty paltry once you hit 100K, 120K, 150K miles.

I also believe the best thing I can do for the environment (which in theory is a reason for going EV in the first place) is to simply consume less. I prefer to buy the best, once, and get all the use out of it that I can.

 

[illopp00]

I have used leasing the Air I have as a less-risky way to do my EV from ICE changeover and into a new startup brand (it's the families 1st EV and 1st Lucid). So far, I have been convinced on EV and Lucid's products. I still have some minor hesitation of their longevity as a brand compared to some automakers. However, the Gravity has everything I want in a car for long term. I don't see any difference in risk in company standing, there are plenty of ICE manufacturers in serious trouble AND there is no difference in the depreciation anymore between a luxury ICE vehicle like a Land Rover vs EV. I still maintain some financial prudency around how I can get the car with the least impact to long-term financial plans and upfront spending. I have the cash to buy the car outright if that is the situation and the best approach to acquire it, but that remains to be seen (lease tax credit loophole, vs some minor financing 3rd party). Lucid has done a tremendous job on EV technology future proofing outside of some exotic battery chemistry, but the reality is all the current tech (new processor, 400V-800V charging compatibility, ADAS hardware, efficient drivetrain) will meet my family's needs for 5-10 years.

 

[hmp10]

I have been a lifelong early adopter when it comes to cars and consequently have usually switched cars every 2-3 years and sometimes even after a year. In fact, I once decided to lease and burned myself because a new car came out that I just had to have, and I took a drubbing on getting out of the lease early.

Ironically, the car I kept the longest was our 2015 Tesla Model S (6 years). And right now our plan is to keep our Air Dream Performance well beyond the 4-year mark, as there is still no sedan like it on the horizon in terms of the balance of power, handling, and roominess.

As others have noted, software updates do a lot to keep a well-built car fresh, and our Air is as well built as any I have ever owned (including premium German models).

We recently sold our 2021 Model S Plaid which is being replaced by a Gravity. When I bump its depreciation up against what I would have paid in lease installments over the four years, it was pretty much a wash, even accounting for the loss of the interim use of capital.

On balance, the flexibility to switch cars at will offsets any potential advantages of leasing in my case.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

It's a battery and an electric motor. I don't get distracted by the software because that's always in flux.

I'll keep it as long as I'm driving.

 

[mezdon]

I keep most cars 8-12 years. Currently have a 2019 Hyundai Kona EV and a 2023 Air Touring. The Kona has not lost any range ion the 5+ years I've driven, in fact I get a bit more that it is rated for. I plan on keeping it till I can get a Gravity in the next 12-18 months. The Air I'll keep till whenever. Both great car.

 

[Judd]

I love everything about my Lucid and I love driving it, but I would never keep it after the lease expires because battery technology changes so rapidly. And, no one really knows what it cost to replace the batteries if they go bad. My coworker has a Taycan and what they say was a rare instance or something went wrong and they had to replace the batteries. Luckily it was still under warranty, but it took weeks and the cost was $70,000 according to the dealer. The Porsche batteries are under the car just like the Lucid.

Also, I understand the car is just a giant computer, but I’ve had nothing but issues with my software. I will soon be taking my car to a service center for the third time in less than a year since I bought the car where they will undoubtably have my car for at least a week. I contact the service advisor on average about every two days because the entertainment system is absolute garbage. I cannot use the radio or any of the apps because they constantly go out. I can’t use my phone because half the time it won’t connect properly and when it does, the music stays on in the background when I answer a call. I bought the premium sound system, so it’s been quite disappointing to say the least. I can’t imagine what it would be like if my car were owned and I had to pay for this while not under warranty. The problems are so bad that I’m actually considering legal action. That being said, I do love my car when driving it.

 

[terrycs]

I plan on treating my Air the same as my ICE cars … buy and hold 10+ years.

 

[jered]

I love everything about my Lucid and I love driving it, but I would never keep it after the lease expires because battery technology changes so rapidly. And, no one really knows what it cost to replace the batteries if they go bad.

I mentioned above that I would have kept our X for 8-10 years, but I also should be clear that I would not do this without a warranty. We have the Tesla extended warranty and would later supplement that with something like Xcare. I think it is a bad idea to keep an EV without some form of warranty unless you're prepared for expensive repairs. (On the other hand, just buying an 8 year old used model of whatever failed might be cheaper than the warranty. It's a balance.)

 

[HaltheAerialist]

I love everything about my Lucid and I love driving it, but I would never keep it after the lease expires because battery technology changes so rapidly. And, no one really knows what it cost to replace the batteries if they go bad. My coworker has a Taycan and what they say was a rare instance or something went wrong and they had to replace the batteries. Luckily it was still under warranty, but it took weeks and the cost was $70,000 according to the dealer. The Porsche batteries are under the car just like the Lucid.

Also, I understand the car is just a giant computer, but I’ve had nothing but issues with my software. I will soon be taking my car to a service center for the third time in less than a year since I bought the car where they will undoubtably have my car for at least a week. I contact the service advisor on average about every two days because the entertainment system is absolute garbage. I cannot use the radio or any of the apps because they constantly go out. I can’t use my phone because half the time it won’t connect properly and when it does, the music stays on in the background when I answer a call. I bought the premium sound system, so it’s been quite disappointing to say the least. I can’t imagine what it would be like if my car were owned and I had to pay for this while not under warranty. The problems are so bad that I’m actually considering legal action. That being said, I do love my car when driving it.

Repairs and availability of parts is definitely a concern, especially with a relatively new company that has yet to turn a profit. Leasing is less risky financially. To be fair, though, most owners have had very good experiences with reliability of the Air. It's unfortunate that some cars, such as yours, end up with frequent and/or expensive problems.

 

[Bdr100]

First off let me state that I am not an EV owner but have a Gravity on order as my first EV. I am a gadget freak and have followed EV development for years but been reticent to jump in due to range anxiety and worry of lack of charging inferstucture (I live in Texas.) I like to compare EVs to early iPhones. In early years they were improving exponentially and everyone was upgrading to new ones each year. After awhile, we were going 2 years between upgrades. Now there is very little difference between my 3 year old iPhone and a new one. Most people are waiting 3-4 years (or more) between upgrading.

I agree with the earlier opinion that dedicated EV manufactures (Tesla, Rivian, Lucid) are going a better job of future proofing their cars. I think that the two key issues for future proofing are battery/charging tech and infotainment/ADAS hardware.

For the Gravity, it has as large of a screen as you could want (don’t see need for bigger) being run by the most powerful processors available now. ADAS sensor suite is top level. So, with ongoing OTA updates, Lucid should be able to keep the ADAS and infotainment pretty up to date for next 8-10 years. Eventually faster processors and AI will allow “RELIABLE” level 5 self driving, which will make current cars more antiquated, but that is still years down the road.

Batteries are the bigger unknown. Everyone is talking about “solid state” but from what I am reading, the main improvement will be smaller size and somewhat faster charging. To me, that would be more important with my hopeful future replacement of current Mercedes convertable.

So, with all that said. I am in the buy and hold for 10 years camp. I am guessing that in 10 years, the new Gravity will be 500lb lighter with 100mi longer range and somewhat faster charging, which might save me an hour of charging time on that once per year 1000 mile roadtrip. Based on battery reliability info I am seeing, by 10 years from now with 100,000 miles, I should still be close to 90% range as new, which would still be very serviceable. The new one will probably be full self driving on all roads, while my old one will, thanks to constant OTA updates, be full self drive on highways and assisted on surface roads.

 

[msaunders9430]

I plan to keep my Gravity GT for as long as possible.
@HaltheAerialist your four reasons are among my reasons.

I considered by buying habits. Especially after reading so many of the comments about leasing.
I considered the option, but the numbers just don't make leasing a reasonable option, for me.
Mainly because I know I want to buy the car. I'll spare you the additional reasons.

It's good to hear from others who plan to own their Gravities as well.
The one ownership challenge that I hope Lucid will address is out-of-warranty ownership.
I won't derail this thread about warranty because there's a dedicated thread already in existence.

Excellent points have been made about the evolution of battery tech and ADAS.
Gravity is about as future-proof an ev suv that currently exists, for me.
Long live OTAs!

The Lucid Air is coming up on four years of age/existence this year.
Four years from now this forum should be a major resource for Air and Gravity owners.