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Marc Winteroff out

socktucker said:
Give it a little bit. This might also be its bottom given that these guys are basically out of business now. No word on a 27 Air (their biggest seller)
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FWIW, I bought my 2025 Air one year ago, on June 19th, 2025, and at that time there was not a peep about the 2026 Air yet either. I don't think anything about the 2026 model was announced until August. You might not be wrong about potential issues, but this timing seems to be the norm for them.
 
funnynardo said:
new management should really consolidate the options available on gravity and air to make manufacturing simpler and make it easier for customers to find a car they want in the inventory.

number of possible combinations of options excluding exterior color/trim appearance, wheels, and interior color:
gravity touring: 192
gravity grand touring: 32
air touring: 32

rivian r1s dual standard, tri, quad: 1
rivian r1s dual: 2 (4 if counting battery size)

cybertruck: 2

sure one can argue that with lucid you can customize the vehicle exactly to your liking, like in the german cars, but with this many variants especially for a new company trying to ramp up a lower volume product, i think it may be wiser to consolidate all options and include hardware into the vehicle and software lock some (like ddpro, similar to tesla fsd and rivian autonomy+). that way you dont build up inventory with randomly generated configurations that no one wants to buy. if an inventory car includes all the hardware already from factory, customer can just pay to activate what they want. doesnt have to be a subscription, but can be a one time purchase. also why is lucid charging for options in a 100k luxury suv that 45k model y includes for free like heated seats and steering wheel? while existing mb, porsche, and bmw customers are probably used to stuff like this, i think it is worth trying to capture some of the massive tesla and rivian customer base. there are reasons why model y and model 3 are by far the best selling evs, and i wouldnt be surprised if r2 is up there also.
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I agree with this. Just to use Apple as an example (again), after Steve Jobs came back to Apple post-John Scully he found that their product line had become way too complicated—too many products and product variations. It was hard to operate efficiently with so many options. Reportedly Jobs said "enough", walked to a whiteboard and drew up a 2×2 square. Jobs put one product in each box and killed the rest. It worked.
 

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GMan said:
They did that in 2022 with their original launches of Touring GT & Touring. That was the right approach. A handful of options.

With the $7,500 Federal tax incentive expiring at the time, and the ridiculous new incentive structure, they needed to deliver an SUV for $80k. Result? Make every feature an option, and charge more for each. Result of that? Inventory management complexity and delivery delays due to having to change the assembly line for various options. Bad Operational decision to approve that idea.
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My uninformed opinion is that the manufacturing complexity led to many of the quality issues the Gravity experienced. Good for consumers to have so many options, bad for the company operationally
 
socktucker said:
“Drink your jar of m&m’s while you shove that cheese sandwich in your ear and I told you not to touch that radioactive soccer ball with your hand now look at it it’s bigger than LeBron”
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I wonder what had more AI slop, this ad or their latest attempt at a software update that bricked everybody's car.
 
Celeras said:
I wonder what had more AI slop, this ad or their latest attempt at a software update that bricked everybody's car.
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Everybody’s car? Not even close.
 
prgarg said:
My uninformed opinion is that the manufacturing complexity led to many of the quality issues the Gravity experienced. Good for consumers to have so many options, bad for the company operationally
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And the choice to reinvent the wheel on many routine things that didn't need to be. It's much of the "easier" stuff they screwed up on (like the fobs). They dialed in the hard stuff (drivetrain, vehicle aerodynamics, efficiency, etc), but then dropped the ball on the easy stuff they should have just used proven tech for.

When you can't get the damn doors open, it leaves a really bad impression. Every day.
When you can't get the audio to play because of bad connectivity and they left out an SXM antenna like most cars...
When you can't see the HUD because they chose to build their own from scratch...
Etc etc.

If they'd have just used proven tech for those types of things instead of trying to reinvent them, the complaints would have dropped by a ton.
 
dbsb3233 said:
And the choice to reinvent the wheel on many routine things that didn't need to be. It's much of the "easier" stuff they screwed up on (like the fobs). They dialed in the hard stuff (drivetrain, vehicle aerodynamics, efficiency, etc), but then dropped the ball on the easy stuff they should have just used proven tech for.

When you can't get the damn doors open, it leaves a really bad impression. Every day.
When you can't get the audio to play because of bad connectivity and they left out an SXM antenna like most cars...
When you can't see the HUD because they chose to build their own from scratch...
Etc etc.

If they'd have just used proven tech for those types of things instead of trying to reinvent them, the complaints would have dropped by a ton.
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One great thing, Cosmos has mechanical doors, unlike Rivian that doesn’t.
 
dbsb3233 said:
And the choice to reinvent the wheel on many routine things that didn't need to be. It's much of the "easier" stuff they screwed up on (like the fobs). They dialed in the hard stuff (drivetrain, vehicle aerodynamics, efficiency, etc), but then dropped the ball on the easy stuff they should have just used proven tech for.

When you can't get the damn doors open, it leaves a really bad impression. Every day.
When you can't get the audio to play because of bad connectivity and they left out an SXM antenna like most cars...
When you can't see the HUD because they chose to build their own from scratch...
Etc etc.

If they'd have just used proven tech for those types of things instead of trying to reinvent them, the complaints would have dropped by a ton.
Click to expand...
Do you or anyone actually know if there is for example an off the shelf available solution that integrates with a software defined vehicle (e.g not a dumb subsystem?).

What I wonder is if there really was an off the shelf option or they just couldn’t get theirs to work.

I know you can get off the shelf systems, but they suffer from the limitations plaguing most traditional automakers (no real ota updates because not all the components can be updated)

Point taken on taking in too much technology risk and not focusing on the basics though.
 
gaskiller said:
One great thing, Cosmos has mechanical doors, unlike Rivian that doesn’t.
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That's good, although I'm not sure if mechanical or not is the problem with the Gravity. Seems to be more of an authorization issue (transmitter/receiver or software). Mine always works fine once it finally gets the signal. It's just frequently 10-20 seconds late doing it. That would affect mechanical too (unless really old school key with no fob).

Although maybe there's multiple problems.
 
DreamTour said:
Do you or anyone actually know if there is for example an off the shelf available solution that integrates with a software defined vehicle (e.g not a dumb subsystem?).

What I wonder is if there really was an off the shelf option or they just couldn’t get theirs to work.

I know you can get off the shelf systems, but they suffer from the limitations plaguing most traditional automakers (no real ota updates because not all the components can be updated)

Point taken on taking in too much technology risk and not focusing on the basics though.
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I don't know. I just remember hearing that Lucid opted to develop a different type of fob tech that's supposedly more secure than normal.

I haven't experienced (or even heard of) this much fob failure with other automakers, that also have app control and PAAK. So I assume they're using something more proven.
 
dbsb3233 said:
And the choice to reinvent the wheel on many routine things that didn't need to be. It's much of the "easier" stuff they screwed up on (like the fobs). They dialed in the hard stuff (drivetrain, vehicle aerodynamics, efficiency, etc), but then dropped the ball on the easy stuff they should have just used proven tech for.

When you can't get the damn doors open, it leaves a really bad impression. Every day.
When you can't get the audio to play because of bad connectivity and they left out an SXM antenna like most cars...
When you can't see the HUD because they chose to build their own from scratch...
Etc etc.

If they'd have just used proven tech for those types of things instead of trying to reinvent them, the complaints would have dropped by a ton.
Click to expand...

Is derailing every topic to a list of complaints that have nothing to do with the thread, just a thing with people love to do here.
 
socktucker said:
Counterpoint: if you live in an area with bad satellite coverage, Lucid is better. My BMW drops around here but lucid does not.
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That's why you include both (especially in an expensive luxury car). Having an SXM antenna and tuner doesn't mean it can't also have an internet dongle for streaming.
 
dbsb3233 said:
And the choice to reinvent the wheel on many routine things that didn't need to be. It's much of the "easier" stuff they screwed up on (like the fobs). They dialed in the hard stuff (drivetrain, vehicle aerodynamics, efficiency, etc), but then dropped the ball on the easy stuff they should have just used proven tech for.

When you can't get the damn doors open, it leaves a really bad impression. Every day.
When you can't get the audio to play because of bad connectivity and they left out an SXM antenna like most cars...
When you can't see the HUD because they chose to build their own from scratch...
Etc etc.

If they'd have just used proven tech for those types of things instead of trying to reinvent them, the complaints would have dropped by a ton.
Click to expand...
The doors always open for my 2022 Air GT with key fob, phone or card.

Rivian and Tesla also lack antenna for SiriusXM and rely on cellular internet streaming -- and out of the three only Lucid has CarPlay and Android Auto.

Neither Rivian nor Tesla have any version of HUD.

Just sayin'
 
dgib85 said:
Is derailing every topic to a list of complaints that have nothing to do with the thread, just a thing with people love to do here.
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We do tend to drift down tangential paths, yes. That was already happening halfway down page 1 of the thread. Here we are 6 pages later (now discussing something that's not even remotely tangential). 🤷‍♂️

And let's face it... The reason that the COO is out, and the reason there's a new CEO, and most of the management team is out, is all the issues with the product, and delivering the product, and supporting the product. So not terribly far off topic.
 
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AZLucidGuy said:
The doors always open for my 2022 Air GT with key fob, phone or card.

Rivian and Tesla also lack antenna for SiriusXM and rely on cellular internet streaming -- and out of the three only Lucid has CarPlay and Android Auto.

Neither Rivian nor Tesla have any version of HUD.

Just sayin'
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They represent a small share of the auto market though. Most automakers include it, at least from what I've seen. EV or ICE should be irrelevant for something like dependable audio feeds.

Do Tesla and Rivian have better connectivity, or do they suffer frequent drops too?

I'm very glad that Lucid added Android Auto (as most automakers do). It's been a godsend as a workaround the native problems.

I don't find Tesla and Rivian to be the sole alternatives. Ford, GM, Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Porsche, Audi, VW, and many others make up the bulk of the auto market.
 
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