Gravity efficiency is low for me

[ke2]

Like EA and Tesla, their website has a good map. You can filter Coming Soon off if you just wanna see currently open ones.

I save the map page as an icon to my phone.

Find EV Charging Stations Near You

Find IONNA EV charging stations near you. Fast DC charging, Plug & Charge, no app required. New sites added weekly.

www.ionna.com

Thanks, only problem is the East Bay is a charging wasteland For some reason IONNA doesn't like Alameda County (the one in Livermore is in Alameda county but that would be it and this location isn't open yet)

 

[dbsb3233]

Thanks, only problem is the East Bay is a charging wasteland For some reason IONNA doesn't like Alameda County (the one in Livermore might be in Alameda county but that would be it)

Plugshare shows a few more future ones that they presumably get from permits filed. Shows one coming in the Fremont area, 5760 Mowry School Rd. That's all I see for the East Bay yet.

 

[gamix]

An easier way is to map the steering wheel custom button to regen levels. When you want to coast, use the button to turn off regen. You can quickly press the button again when you want to slow down via regen.

Will the car gain speed, so long as a hill is steep enough? Just curious if it precisely mimics Drive being disconnected.

 

[dbsb3233]

Sounds dangerous. An easier way is to map the steering wheel custom button to regen levels. When you want to coast, use the button to turn off regen. You can quickly press the button again when you want to slow down via regen.

I've played with that some, but I generally hate turning Regen on/off because the accelerator pedal mapping doesn't match. Meaning when you switch it on or off you either speed up or slow down (often harshly from the strong regen) when the pedal is pressed to the same depth. It's not a smooth transition (like it is in our Macan). Always get the surge or the anchor drop until you find the correct new pedal depth. Only takes a second but it's still an annoying second, especially to any passengers in the car that aren't expecting it.

 

[studdross]

Hey. Just wanted to check with you guys on what efficiency you are getting for your Gravity GT for normal everyday driving.
I am constantly at about 2.75. On a good day I might get to 2.8. I am not able to go above 2.8, no matter what; even if I try hypermiling. I am doing my best to accelerate smoothly.

I just want to survey what you guys are getting. I see on NotchEVs videos he is always at about 3.0. I am wondering if there is something wrong with my drivetrain and if I should get it checked out by service.

Early days, but in the first 500 miles we've been getting ~3.5 with Gravity Touring (smallest wheels)

 

[Aka-none]

I've played with that some, but I generally hate turning Regen on/off because the accelerator pedal mapping doesn't match. Meaning when you switch it on or off you either speed up or slow down (often harshly from the strong regen) when the pedal is pressed to the same depth. It's not a smooth transition (like it is in our Macan). Always get the surge or the anchor drop until you find the correct new pedal depth. Only takes a second but it's still an annoying second, especially to any passengers in the car that aren't expecting it.

Yeah I’m still trying to get a better handle on pedal mapping and I agree that picking it up after turning cruise off is something to be learned

 

[gamix]

With Tesla, I'd say pedal depth when going back to 'D' is consistent with the driving condition; more if going up hill, faster, or into a head wind. It could feel unpredictable, if not adjusting appropriately. I never feel I've thrown the anchor, or gotten punched in the back. Mostly, passengers just see me working the stalk. In my case, I'd say the difference between coasting (or being able to turn regen off) and feathering the throttle while remaining in 'D', is .1-.2/mpKWh. Tesla doesn't offer 'Regen Off', paddles, or anything, and 'D' is always somewhat lossy.

 

[dbsb3233]

With Tesla, I'd say pedal depth when going back to 'D' is consistent with the driving condition; more if going up hill, faster, or into a head wind. It could feel unpredictable, if not adjusting appropriately. I never feel I've thrown the anchor, or gotten punched in the back. Mostly, passengers just see me working the stalk. In my case, I'd say the difference between coasting (or being able to turn regen off) and feathering the throttle while remaining in 'D', is .1-.2/mpKWh. Tesla doesn't offer 'Regen Off', paddles, or anything, and 'D' is always somewhat lossy.

I don't think Tesla even lets you turn regen off (just down some), so yeah, not nearly the big difference we see in the Gravity when turning it off.

Especially since the Gravity regen is so strong (compared to my other EV experiences, anyway). Even Standard feels quite strong to me. It feels like an 8 (on a 1-10 scale), with High only about 1 notch above that. I don't detect much difference between Standard and High. Both are strong.

I would love for Lucid to do an upgrade that offers another Regen setting. Something maybe 30% lighter, which to me would still be a 5 although they'd probably call it Low. I like regen but something more medium would help make the transitions a lot smoother, especially when canceling out of ACC.

And since Lucid doesn't apply blended regen to the brake pedal, we don't want regen that's too light (where we'd be using friction brakes a lot). Needs to be strong enough to do all normal slowing. But current Standard still has more than enough for that, with room to spare. If I lift completely up on the acc pedal when doing 45 MPH, it's slowing way harder than any normal driving I would do. 30% less would still be plenty to use nothing but the acc pedal (until the final 5 MPH or so).

 

[Saksak]

Will the car gain speed, so long as a hill is steep enough? Just curious if it precisely mimics Drive being disconnected.

Yes, with regen off, you’ll gain speed on a slight downhill that’s steep enough to overcome the friction of moving components. The vehicle is truly coasting. Note that the same can be said wth regen on - you just need a steeper slope to overcome the braking effect.

 

[Saksak]

[…] I would love for Lucid to do an upgrade that offers another Regen setting. Something maybe 30% lighter, which to me would still be a 5 although they'd probably call it Low. I like regen but something more medium would help make the transitions a lot smoother, especially when canceling out of ACC. […]

The transition when cancelling out of ACC can be independent of the regen setting. For a smoother transition, we just need the ACC to more gradually reduce the torque from 0 deceleration to maximum deceleration, where that maximum is dependent on the regen setting. The rate of change can be the same at all regen settings - it would just take longer to get to maximum deceleration with full regen.

The regen setting is all about pedal feel - how much pedal travel is required for a change in deceleration. For those who think the vehicle is slowing down too much when completely lifting off the pedal, well, don’t completely lift off. You can slow down very gradually even in the highest regen setting.

 

[L-Dude]

Yes! I just used one in San Jose with the Air the other day. There are two in SJ now, and a third opening. There is also one in SF as you mentioned, and one in Daly City. A Pacifica one is opening soon too. And one in Larkspur if you like north bay!

What kind of charging rate did you get with the Air?

 

[dbsb3233]

The transition when cancelling out of ACC can be independent of the regen setting. For a smoother transition, we just need the ACC to more gradually reduce the torque from 0 deceleration to maximum deceleration, where that maximum is dependent on the regen setting. The rate of change can be the same at all regen settings - it would just take longer to get to maximum deceleration with full regen.

The regen setting is all about pedal feel - how much pedal travel is required for a change in deceleration. For those who think the vehicle is slowing down too much when completely lifting off the pedal, well, don’t completely lift off. You can slow down very gradually even in the highest regen setting.

Yes, that would be the other way to do it, for them so slowly ease in regen when dropping out of ACC over like 5 seconds rather than all at once. I submitted that suggestion months ago. Not that I really expect any action on it, but ya never know.

Yes, regen level affects pedal feel. A lighter regen would spread out the modulation over the pedal range, smoothing it all out and making it easier to make small speed changes and match speed.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

I find efficiency to be highly dependent on temperature, elevation and speed - of course. I easily get 3.35 when driving a 300 mile road trip that’s generally flat, less than 70mph and on highways and temp is 50-90 F.

This is all pretty normal for EVs. Cold weather and climbing kill range more than going 75mph, for me. I was struggling to get 2.15 in winter when it was less than 32 and I was going to the mountains a lot.

So I typically get about 2.75 for normal driving most of the year, which is about .5 better than similar driving in our G2 R1S.

 

[dbsb3233]

I find efficiency to be highly dependent on temperature, elevation and speed - of course. I easily get 3.35 when driving a 300 mile road trip that’s generally flat, less than 70mph and on highways and temp is 50-90 F.

This is all pretty normal for EVs. Cold weather and climbing kill range more than going 75mph, for me. I was struggling to get 2.15 in winter when it was less than 32 and I was going to the mountains a lot.

So I typically get about 2.75 for normal driving most of the year, which is about .5 better than similar driving in our G2 R1S.

For my most frequent travels, I actually get worse mileage on the flat highways than the mountains. But that's because the speed is slower through the mountains, and the net elevation usually comes pretty close to evening out between DCFC stops. For instance, our home north of Denver sits at 4900' elevation. When we drive to Las Vegas, first DCFC stop on I-70 is the Fruita Ionna, 279 miles west. We climb up to 11,000' through the mountains (which of course kills MPK going up), but then we get nearly all that back doing back down. Fruita sits at 4500', almost the same elevation as home. But even going up/down/up/down, it's the best mileage of the trip because we only average ~70 MPH on that leg. Once we're clear of the mountains, the speed climbs to 80 through Utah which has way more impact. The Utah legs are by far our worst MPK of the Denver-Vegas drive, not the mountains.

If the NET elevation difference is thousands of feet difference between start and end of the leg, then it's a huge factor. But the range in the Gravity is so long that we make it all the way through the Colorado mountains in a single charge, making elevation mostly moot. We get back nearly all of the uphill penalty on the way back down.

 

[Saksak]

[…] But even going up/down/up/down, it's the best mileage of the trip because we only average ~70 MPH on that leg. Once we're clear of the mountains, the speed climbs to 80 through Utah which has way more impact. […] making elevation mostly moot. We get back nearly all of the uphill penalty on the way back down.

Agree, speed kills efficiency. Traveling 80 mph instead of 70 mph can result in a ~15% range decrease.

There is an interesting thing about elevation and efficiency. An additional condition must be met in order to the negate elevation penalty of the uphill leg, besides the net elevation gain being zero.

• Downhill leg does not go into regen. Using some amount of positive power/torque is ok.

If the downhill leg is steep enough to go into regen, you’ll have 30% - 40% energy loss for the deceleration due to regen. Note that this is still better than using brakes, where you’ll have 100% energy loss for the deceleration due to braking.

This is the same principle as coasting to slow down or stop instead of using regen for best efficiency (and never using brakes).

 

[dbsb3233]

Agree, speed kills efficiency. Traveling 80 mph instead of 70 mph can result in a ~15% range decrease.

There is an interesting thing about elevation and efficiency. An additional condition must be met in order to the negate elevation penalty of the uphill leg, besides the net elevation gain being zero.

• Downhill leg does not go into regen. Using some amount of positive power/torque is ok.

If the downhill leg is steep enough to go into regen, you’ll have 30% - 40% energy loss for the deceleration due to regen. Note that this is still better than using brakes, where you’ll have 100% energy loss for the deceleration due to braking.

This is the same principle as coasting to slow down or stop instead of using regen for best efficiency (and never using brakes).

I've seen that 30%-40% loss number before but I suspect that average is skewed downward from harder stopping in the city than it is for gentle, lengthy grades like mountain driving on interstates. Of course, I don't have any way to precisely measure it, but I have been watching my usage and SOC for 6 years across 3 EVs on dozens of trips on I-70 through the mountains and I've found very little net penalty. I get pretty much the same MPK as the same speed drive on flat highways. Slightly less, but nowhere near 30-40% loss.

I suspect regen is much more efficient on a 3-5% downhill grade at a steady 70 MPH than it is making frequent harder stops in city traffic. It's probably not linear.

 

[BS8899]

I've seen that 30%-40% loss number before but I suspect that average is skewed downward from harder stopping in the city than it is for gentle, lengthy grades like mountain driving on interstates. Of course, I don't have any way to precisely measure it, but I have been watching my usage and SOC for 6 years across 3 EVs on dozens of trips on I-70 through the mountains and I've found very little net penalty. I get pretty much the same MPK as the same speed drive on flat highways. Slightly less, but nowhere near 30-40% loss.

I suspect regen is much more efficient on a 3-5% downhill grade at a steady 70 MPH than it is making frequent harder stops in city traffic. It's probably not linear.

We should be clear what "mountain travel" means.

If it means going up a mountain of several thousand feet elevation, you WILL realize a lower efficiency.

If it means going DOWN a mountain several thousand feet, your mi/kWh will be noticeably better.

If it means driving around in the Denver/Ft. Collins area with relatively small elevation transitions, you will also a noticeable efficiency gain because of the tinner air (hence lower drag at high speed).

 

[dbsb3233]

We should be clear what "mountain travel" means.

If it means going up a mountain of several thousand feet elevation, you WILL realize a lower efficiency.

If it means going DOWN a mountain several thousand feet, your mi/kWh will be noticeably better.

If it means driving around in the Denver/Ft. Collins area with relatively small elevation transitions, you will also a noticeable efficiency gain because of the tinner air (hence lower drag at high speed).

Sure, air density is yet another factor, unrelated to regen. I was just addressing the impact of regen being able to recapture downhill most of the extra power burned going uphill (at interstate speeds and grades). But yeah, still lots of other factors too. Air density, temperature, wind, rain/snow, tires, etc.

While many of our significant elevation differences are at high altitude, not all are. Another common one on that route is at lower altitude, between Cedar City UT (5800') and St George UT (2800'). In our Mach-E it was a 25% SOC difference going one direction vs the other (roughly 15% used going downhill but 40% used going uphill. With shorter range in the Mach-E I had to take elevation into account more because we had to charge twice as often which meant more stops at different altitudes. But the long range in the Gravity means fewer stops, with usually less net elevation difference between them.

 

[BS8899]

I find efficiency to be highly dependent on temperature, elevation and speed - of course. I easily get 3.35 when driving a 300 mile road trip that’s generally flat, less than 70mph and on highways and temp is 50-90 F.

This is all pretty normal for EVs. Cold weather and climbing kill range more than going 75mph, for me. I was struggling to get 2.15 in winter when it was less than 32 and I was going to the mountains a lot.

So I typically get about 2.75 for normal driving most of the year, which is about .5 better than similar driving in our G2 R1S.

Have you tried driving your R1S in "conserve" mode? My experience with my R1S is, it can gain ~0.25 to 0.3 in efficiency. As you know, the R1S has several different instantiations (vis-a-vis, Quad, Tri, etc.) so the exact topology of the drive train under "Conserve" differ. Nevertheless, Rivian has published a bunch of graphs showing the realizable gains in efficiencies. When I drive on long distance road trips with my Rivian, I use the "Conserve" mode. I don't think it will beat the Gravity's efficiency. But it can get to about 2.5 (70-75 mph), which is not too shabby for a heavy off-road vehicle.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

Have you tried driving your R1S in "conserve" mode? My experience with my R1S is, it can gain ~0.25 to 0.3 in efficiency. As you know, the R1S has several different instantiations (vis-a-vis, Quad, Tri, etc.) so the exact topology of the drive train under "Conserve" differ. Nevertheless, Rivian has published a bunch of graphs showing the realizable gains in efficiencies. When I drive on long distance road trips with my Rivian, I use the "Conserve" mode. I don't think it will beat the Gravity's efficiency. But it can get to about 2.5 (70-75 mph), which is not too shabby for a heavy off-road vehicle.

I have. It’s a 10% gain in rated miles but as with most EVs, whack 20% from that to get it to be accurate. So it’s a 7.5% gain in conserve.

That said, the R1S has a totally different feel in conserve and it puts a bunch of strain on the two wheels that still use regen vs the “disconnected” ones.

Either way, I prefer the Gravity in all ways compared to our R1S but that’s for a different thread. I do find the Rivian has far less bugs.