EV vs. ICE - safety + environmental

[Pittsburgher]

Preface - this is not intended to start a political conversation - Lord knows there's enough of that outside of this forum. That said, the media seems to have very different coverage regarding pros/cons of BEV's vs. ICE vehicles. Like many of you, I have both family + neighbors who watch only conservative media (and I'm guessing, get very different news feeds on their phone than I do) . . . who are VERY concerned (and condescending) regarding our EV purchase. When they bring up their concerns (both safety and environmental issues), my stock reply is to listen (for a bit) and then ask for them if they can provide any data, and for them to forward any articles or links so I can educate myself on their concerns. I have not received any links or articles so far.

I know there must be others (if not the majority) in this community, who have had similar experiences. I'm not particularly interested in (commiserating about?) feedback relating to those experiences -- but am really curious if any of you are aware of any datasets, reports, or impartial 3rd party analysis of EV's in terms of how they compare to ICE vehicles. Ideally more than the standard gas vs. electricity environmental impact . . . but things like crash tests, death rates per million miles driven, frequency of fires (per million vehicles), lithium mining and environmental impact of "used" batteries vs. used engine oil, etc . . .

I haven't really done much web surfing for this . . . and was hoping there are forum members (or even Lucid folks on this forum) who have information or links to share. The sources are almost nearly as important as the information itself . . . so things like government data, scientific research institutes, (not affiliated with or funded by companies or trade organizations that would benefit from the results), etc., would be much better sources to share with the EV sceptics.

Hoping there are others in the same boat who have already done a bunch of homework in this area, and are willing to share ! !

 

[Pittsburgher]

Sorry, just seeing scal_air's post on the Guardian article re lifetime CO2 impact of EV vs. ICE . . . that's exactly the kind of thing that I'm looking for. I expect my "EV sceptic" family/neighbors would see the Guardian as a biased / "liberal media" source - although their article is based on the 2021 UNESE report which I would argue is a "neutral" party just reporting factual data sets.

 

[bikeriderbryan]

Yes I get crazy stuff like this all the time from everyone.

I just went to pick up a loaner (Lucid is in the shop ) and the guy at the rental counter said I bet your car is in the shop due to a SW issue. He then said he wouldn't own an EV because the SW might leave him stranded away from home. I then replied that he does realize that his car has electronics and runs off SW. He then gave me a blank stare and the rental car keys.

 

[rfc805]

Most people seem concerned about fire and EVs.. Which seems selective amnesia, since there's a rich history of combustion engine vehicle fires, houses burning down due to them, etc. There are still far more combustion engine vehicle fires than EV. Just nobody cares about the ICE vehicle fires since they're just normal now and not useful to fit any sort of agenda.

Forbes is pretty conservative in news at this point, and even they point this out https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwi...uilty-of-excess-short-term-fire-risk-charges/

 

[j4gates]

I've found Ben Sullins' YT videos interesting because he uses data to reinforce his statements - or counterpoint to others' statements. He makes great points and you can hand off the videos and ask your family to provide data-backed counterpoint to help you understand their position. I'd bet you won't get a response.

 

[borski]

the guy at the rental counter said I bet your car is in the shop due to a SW issue

“Nope, oil change, new spark plugs, a dirty fuel injector, faulty oxygen sensor, and my brother accidentally filled it with diesel.

Wait, no, that’s this GM rental you just handed me.

My car just needed a wash and annual maintenance.”

 

[Rogue]

I am working in industrial mining at the moment for copper, gold, and moly (not the drug, used in steel and other products). The reality is that the net effect of ICE vs EV vs Hybrid is equalized. The materials required for these vehicles is not environmentally friendly, regardless of media portrayal.

What I do know is that recycling of batteries shall tremendously tip the scales towards EV vehicles. Green/clean energy sources are improving in efficiency and capacity by the providers of the electrons needed for our cars. However, this is highly dependent on where you live as there are still many coal, natural gas, and other carbon energy producers globally providing the bulk of the electricity.

The short story is the topic is complicated. If you want data, you need to base it on your specific geographical location plus battery composition plus battery composition composed of recycled materials plus energy source provider. Tires, vehicle, and battery longevity also come into play as well as battery repairability.

The really short answer that I think is closer to the truth is it's about equal right now. The trend with the right technologies and processes in place should make EVs drastically more "environmentally friendly" through material recycling and material longevity.

In terms of safety, I believe you have already found your answer on that one. Most EVs are built like tanks with great occupant safety. The current weight of the vehicles make them less safe for non-occupants without proper measures put in place. Again, this will trend to equal to gas cars as solid state batteries eventually make it to market and reduce total vehicle weight plus efficiency gains in power train and general vehicle design.

 

[bikeriderbryan]

“Nope, oil change, new spark plugs, a dirty fuel injector, faulty oxygen sensor, and my brother accidentally filled it with diesel.

Wait, no, that’s this GM rental you just handed me.

My car just needed a wash and annual maintenance.”

Actually he was correct. Back in the shop for SW issue but I didn't tell him that.

 

[borski]

Actually he was correct. Back in the shop for SW issue but I didn't tell him that.

I know lol, but the implication is that ICE cars are never in the shop, which is far from the truth. Buy an ICE Mercedes and enjoy spending half your time figuring out electronics bugs lol.

People are often forgetful of their own experiences in the face of judging others’ experiences they haven’t lived.