EV carbon footprint

[Sandvinsd]

I have always looked at EVs for performance and economics, not carbon footprint. But for those touting the carbon footprint, you can read the article. Every policy the environmentalists put into place have had unintended consequences which have made things worse, from lightbulbs to cars…..

Volvo says electric car making emissions are 70% HIGHER than petrol

Volvo said the C40 Recharge has a far lower carbon footprint during 'use phase' and if clean energy was used things would improve.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Lucken]

Yup, I’ve been hearing that for a long time, but it’s something the mainstream media won’t discuss.

 

[hmp10]

Yup, I’ve been hearing that for a long time, but it’s something the mainstream media won’t discuss.

I have seen numerous mainstream media articles discussing the carbon footprint tipping point when factoring in manufacturing and explaining that it makes EVs initially less green than ICE cars. Here are just a few recent examples from:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/the-electric-vehiclesupply-chain-has-adirty-secret/2021/11/03/c602e9ec-3cfe-11ec-bd6f-da376f47304e_story.html

Are electric cars 'green'? The answer is yes, but it's complicated

Electric vehicles have surged in demand, and hit a record number last year as more and more people turn to battery-operated cars.

www.cnbc.com

How Green Are Electric Vehicles? (Published 2021)

In short: Very green. But plug-in cars still have environmental effects. Here’s a guide to the main issues and how they might be addressed.

www.nytimes.com

Lifetime carbon emissions of electric vehicles vs gasoline cars

Reuters analyzed data generated by an Argonne National Laboratory model to determine at what point a typical electric vehicle (EV) becomes cleaner than an equivalent gasoline car in terms of its lifetime carbon footprint.

www.reuters.com

Are Electric Cars Really Better for the Environment?

EVs produce fewer emissions overall than their gas-powered counterparts, but there are caveats

www.wsj.com

As cars last much longer these days -- and EVs in particular are promising longer service life than ICE cars -- a 70K-mile tipping point still makes the case for EVs. And, of course, the lowering of that to 30K miles when charged using green energy exclusively is more icing on the cake.

Our local power company is already generating almost 30% of its power from solar farms, with the rest coming from natural gas and nuclear. Its last coal-fired plant was taken off line over two years ago. So the tipping point into carbon footprint reductions for my EVs is probably already somewhere south of the 70K mark.

 

[Lucken]

But of course without China, India, Russia & others getting onboard, this all won't mean much. I saw a rather detailed analysis not long ago that showed if the U.S. shut everything down, literally everything, the net impact on worldwide temperatures would be less than 0.5 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I think the focus on climate is GREAT, here's the bigger issue. End of Oil, its finite. Not to mention you can recycle a battery, good luck getting Carbon Monoxide back into gasoline...

 

[hmp10]

End of Oil, its finite.

Hence Saudi Arabia's foresight in investing heavily in green energy projects, as compared to the U.S.'s recent attempts to reinvigorate the coal industry.

 

[Sandvinsd]

well, they told me back in the ‘70s that oil is doomed and we were in production decline, all to run out in 20 years….

Fast forward 50 years later. not only did production not decline, it hit all time highs - mostly because we got better finding and extracting it. I’m sure we will eventually run of oil, but I doubt it will be in my or my kids lifetimes. I have to find an article I read a while back. The world moved from wood to coal to oil to nuclear to renewables. None of those energy sources have ever declined in terms of use. Yes, earlier ones now represent a smaller proportion of the energy mix, but each was used in a greater amount than it was back in the day. Will we ever eliminate fossil fuels? Again, probably not in my or my kids lifetimes. Just being realistic and reading the data…

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

well, they told me back in the ‘70s that oil is doomed and we were in production decline, all to run out in 20 years….

Fast forward 50 years later. not only did production not decline, it hit all time highs - mostly because we got better finding and extracting it. I’m sure we will eventually run of oil, but I doubt it will be in my or my kids lifetimes. I have to find an article I read a while back. The world moved from wood to coal to oil to nuclear to renewables. None of those energy sources have ever declined in terms of use. Yes, earlier ones now represent a smaller proportion of the energy mix, but each was used in a greater amount than it was back in the day. Will we ever eliminate fossil fuels? Again, probably not in my or my kids lifetimes. Just being realistic and reading the data…

The last industry I'd trust to be truthful about how much they have left is the fossil fuel industry.

 

[Lucken]

Hence Saudi Arabia's foresight in investing heavily in green energy projects, as compared to the U.S.'s recent attempts to reinvigorate the coal industry.

Unless we reinvest in nuclear, there will be an ongoing need for a mix of fossil fuels & green. Green alone will not support this country's needs.

 

[Lucken]

well, they told me back in the ‘70s that oil is doomed and we were in production decline, all to run out in 20 years….

Fast forward 50 years later. not only did production not decline, it hit all time highs - mostly because we got better finding and extracting it. I’m sure we will eventually run of oil, but I doubt it will be in my or my kids lifetimes. I have to find an article I read a while back. The world moved from wood to coal to oil to nuclear to renewables. None of those energy sources have ever declined in terms of use. Yes, earlier ones now represent a smaller proportion of the energy mix, but each was used in a greater amount than it was back in the day. Will we ever eliminate fossil fuels? Again, probably not in my or my kids lifetimes. Just being realistic and reading the data…

Bingo!

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

well, they told me back in the ‘70s that oil is doomed and we were in production decline, all to run out in 20 years….

Fast forward 50 years later. not only did production not decline, it hit all time highs - mostly because we got better finding and extracting it. I’m sure we will eventually run of oil, but I doubt it will be in my or my kids lifetimes. I have to find an article I read a while back. The world moved from wood to coal to oil to nuclear to renewables. None of those energy sources have ever declined in terms of use. Yes, earlier ones now represent a smaller proportion of the energy mix, but each was used in a greater amount than it was back in the day. Will we ever eliminate fossil fuels? Again, probably not in my or my kids lifetimes. Just being realistic and reading the data…

I don't think extracting oil from tar sands is a sign of savvy engineering.

I do think it's should be about the fact that batteries are recyclable and fossil fuels are not.

 

[Sandvinsd]

I don't think extracting oil from tar sands is a sign of savvy engineering.

I do think it's should be about the fact that batteries are recyclable and fossil fuels are not.

Currently the metals required to build the number of batteries needed to convert ICE to EV all need to be mined. Most of that mining takes place in countries where there are not a lot of environmental safeguards.. It will be many decades before there are enough used batteries to change this fact. Until that time, the production of EV batteries is environmentally dirty. They could mine a lot of lithium safely in California, but it won’t be allowed.