Driving Air loaner while Gravity is in the shop

[allenmhc]

I think the common denominator is Android right? Maybe that's why Tesla is so much better in the software department. Also having unlimited money helps them, too. But I would imagine at some point a software designer has got to feel like Android is fighting them doing what they want it to do. There's quite a few software guys on here they might have some insight. Savage Geese put it well too, Lucid tried to do too much too fast.

Android is the common denominator for a lot of hardware (also phones, e-readers, IoT devices, etc.), but that's actually one of its strengths: it's free and widely used, a lot of the bugs in the OS itself have been hammered out just because there are so many applications of the OS.

What it is really is the interaction between the software and the hardware; in Lucid's case, it's how Android interacts with their components and systems, most of which requires custom firmware. The bugs in the Gravity—the most annoying and egregious ones anyway—usually aren't in the infotainment itself or how the software displays or runs, but in weird notifications, component failures/lack of signal, etc. The software that is handling and responding to the car's hardware has to be bespoke, and just takes time to correct and mature. This is why traditional car manufacturers, despite writing their own OSs for decades which are will behind Android/iOS in terms of functionality and speed, are still solid: the infotainment systems may be subpar, but the hardware and firmware have been shored up after years/decades of using the same components.

 

[socktucker]

Android is the common denominator for a lot of hardware (also phones, e-readers, IoT devices, etc.), but that's actually one of its strengths: it's free and widely used, a lot of the bugs in the OS itself have been hammered out just because there are so many applications of the OS.

What it is really is the interaction between the software and the hardware; in Lucid's case, it's how Android interacts with their components and systems, most of which requires custom firmware. The bugs in the Gravity—the most annoying and egregious ones anyway—usually aren't in the infotainment itself or how the software displays or runs, but in weird notifications, component failures/lack of signal, etc. The software that is handling and responding to the car's hardware has to be bespoke, and just takes time to correct and mature. This is why traditional car manufacturers, despite writing their own OSs for decades which are will behind Android/iOS in terms of functionality and speed, are still solid: the infotainment systems may be subpar, but the hardware and firmware have been shored up after years/decades of using the same components.

Interesting. I know OEMs share hardware so I imagine that makes sense too.

 

[hwy17er]

...trying not to feel doom while waiting for my order

I guess it's comforting that knowing WAY more about SW than most of us on this forum you guys still chose this vehicle and feel the SW will be evolving and end up ok over time

 

[socktucker]

...trying not to feel doom while waiting for my order

I guess it's comforting that knowing WAY more about SW than most of us on this forum you guys still chose this vehicle and feel the SW will be evolving and end up ok over time

And most of us owned Teslas too. As far as luxury and over all car quality goes, Tesla isn’t even close. I can honestly say, software issues aside, driving a Tesla is like driving a hoopty compared to Lucid. And I have two teslas!

 

[zoomzoom]

...trying not to feel doom while waiting for my order

I guess it's comforting that knowing WAY more about SW than most of us on this forum you guys still chose this vehicle and feel the SW will be evolving and end up ok over time

My new gravity has been mostly great. Very happy overall. Happy customers usually don’t come back and post on the forums multiple times per day.

True of all big ticket purchases in every sector.

 

[electric]

And most of us owned Teslas too. As far as luxury and over all car quality goes, Tesla isn’t even close. I can honestly say, software issues aside, driving a Tesla is like driving a hoopty compared to Lucid. And I have two teslas!

I must not be such sophisticated connoisseur of vehicle dynamics because I really enjoyed my 2023 Model Y Long Range, never had any issues with it, never had to go to Tesla Owners forum, never had to reboot its software over 3 years of daily use. Other than overpromised FSD, which I never believed and never expected to work, Tesla software served me perfectly fine, including Autopilot for freeways. In the past month of Gravity ownership I started to miss no-hassle Tesla experience, but I gave Tesla to my son and he won't give it back now.

 

[allenmhc]

And most of us owned Teslas too. As far as luxury and over all car quality goes, Tesla isn’t even close. I can honestly say, software issues aside, driving a Tesla is like driving a hoopty compared to Lucid. And I have two teslas!

Well, that's the thing: in some ways I'm more comforted that it's mostly a bunch of software issues, particularly when it's widespread like the keyfob detection problems, because that means they have the means to fix it and there's plenty of instances for the engineers to use for debugging and tracing the root cause.

The hardest issues are one-offs; one-off software bugs, or hardware problems that only occur in a few cars.

 

[TahoeMichael]

I must not be such sophisticated connoisseur of vehicle dynamics because I really enjoyed my 2023 Model Y Long Range, never had any issues with it, never had to go to Tesla Owners forum, never had to reboot its software over 3 years of daily use. Other than overpromised FSD, which I never believed and never expected to work, Tesla software served me perfectly fine, including Autopilot for freeways. In the past month of Gravity ownership I started to miss no-hassle Tesla experience, but I gave Tesla to my son and he won't give it back now.

It helps that a 2023 Y is neither the first model year of the vehicle, nor the first year of a completely new software stack. That doesn't excuse Lucid's problems with the Gravity, of course.

 

[socktucker]

I must not be such sophisticated connoisseur of vehicle dynamics because I really enjoyed my 2023 Model Y Long Range, never had any issues with it, never had to go to Tesla Owners forum, never had to reboot its software over 3 years of daily use. Other than overpromised FSD, which I never believed and never expected to work, Tesla software served me perfectly fine, including Autopilot for freeways. In the past month of Gravity ownership I started to miss no-hassle Tesla experience, but I gave Tesla to my son and he won't give it back now.

Oh for sure Tesla software is better hands down. I cannot believe Lucid released the Gravity in such a state-but- I think most customers would rather have these issues than lose the $7500 tax credit. I know I would.

But on my MYP, the wing fell halfway off while I was in a road trip. Just flapping in the breeze. The headlight quit working. Water comes in the window during car washes cuz their tolerances are just kinda whatever. There’s a paint run blob down the door and they’re just like it’s within spec. Oh. It’s blue, and they didn’t paint the hinges on blue ones so you just see white paints in the gaps of the car even when it’s closed. They’re not all like that, but mine is. Tesla considers it “within spec”.

Now yeah Lucid has a lot of internal issues that show through some of those issues, but they’re also sending two guys out to my house to replace a panel that has a small fingerprint in it that you can only see in daylight because they agreed that’s pretty lame. Whereas Tesla looks at my white hinges on a blue car and is just “meh it’s within spec”.

I’m not sure what luxury sedans you’ve had, but I can assure you that when it comes to build and ride, Lucid Air is class leading. I’ve owned most of them. The closest to Lucid is Lexus, second is Mercedes in my experience.

 

[eelpout]

...trying not to feel doom while waiting for my order

I guess it's comforting that knowing WAY more about SW than most of us on this forum you guys still chose this vehicle and feel the SW will be evolving and end up ok over time

I guess I'm getting some cold feet. I've driven JLR vehicles for a long time and the issues that come up here far outshine any problems I've ever had (which were lucky few). I guess I'm not clear why BEV vehicles are so software shackled, it's just a different powertrain, they certainly don't have to be.

 

[socktucker]

I guess I'm getting some cold feet. I've driven JLR vehicles for a long time and the issues that come up here far outshine any problems I've ever had (which were lucky few). I guess I'm not clear why BEV vehicles are so software shackled, it's just a different powertrain, they certainly don't have to be.

Maybe lease one then?

 

[californiaboy935]

I guess I'm getting some cold feet. I've driven JLR vehicles for a long time and the issues that come up here far outshine any problems I've ever had (which were lucky few). I guess I'm not clear why BEV vehicles are so software shackled, it's just a different powertrain, they certainly don't have to be.

I think what you have to understand about this forum is most of or at least the vast majority of problems are very overblown. You were seeing a small subset of people who have problems with their vehicles. I think you’ll really enjoy the gravity. I have been overjoyed driving and interacting with it in my admittedly limited experience with them.

But in that experience I have encountered none of the problems described on this forum. So a small data point for you.

 

[HC_79]

I guess I'm getting some cold feet. I've driven JLR vehicles for a long time and the issues that come up here far outshine any problems I've ever had (which were lucky few). I guess I'm not clear why BEV vehicles are so software shackled, it's just a different powertrain, they certainly don't have to be.

Take the car for a test drive, experience it for yourself. Do 2 or 3 drives on different days even to see if your experience is consistent or drastically different. Just don't base your decision solely on what's written in here because with frustration comes embellishment in a lot of the negative posts and the "sky is falling" narrative that gets posted by a minority certainly isn't the case for all Gravity owners.

 

[eelpout]

Maybe lease one then?

that's already the plan.

 

[electric]

After driving the loaner Air for a week I started missing my Gravity, despite all the stupid software bugs.
As it turned out, some of the same bugs are also in Air, and while it's annoying as hell, you learn to live with it, develop workarounds and try not to focus too much on it.
Now that my DreamDrive is working in Gravity and recent software updates seemingly improved the startup issues, I'm going to try not to stress the small stuff and just enjoy the car.

 

[Alanp]

I guess I'm getting some cold feet. I've driven JLR vehicles for a long time and the issues that come up here far outshine any problems I've ever had (which were lucky few). I guess I'm not clear why BEV vehicles are so software shackled, it's just a different powertrain, they certainly don't have to be.

I wouldn’t get cold feet on EV’s in general. I have been driving EV’s exclusively for 8 years (Chevy Bolt and Tesla Y) and had ZERO issues with either in approx. 100,000 miles. Not one trip to the shop, and NO MAINTENANCE except tires. I would not consider driving an ICE car again. I absolutely love EV’s.
That said, I did pass on my Gravity order because I only have one car and I both need it and want it to be reliable. I have probably been spoiled by my experiences, but just not willing to risk having to deal with software bugs that are undoubtedly due to many of these vehicles (Gravity, Polestar, etc.) being new and not fully sorted yet. But I continue to follow this forum as I really want a Gravity to be my next car because it’s driving dynamics and features are at another level.

 

[petergottlieb]

I just realized how silly this thread might seem to an Air owner, and how all the complains in Gravity section of the forum might look to an existing Air owner.
I joined this forum a month ago as a new Lucid customer with Gravity, never had any previous experience with Lucid, other than just being aware of its existence and waiting for my Gravity pre-order. I knew Air was out for 4 years now and assumed there were bunch of early adopter issues, but since nothing was popping in my news feed about Air I kind of assumed it's a stable product now, which made me upset about state of Gravity software. Note that I never even entered Air section of this forum.....until today.
Holy smokes, I just scanned thru 10 pages of Air 2.8.9 release, which is going on now, 4 years after car started shipping
So many parallels with Gravity, so many common bugs, I'm stunned, this is how deer must feel when they see headlights at night. I can't decide how to feel about this new revelation.
Does it bring more hope that both platforms suck together and maybe company will eventually sort it all out, or less hope that after 4 years they can't make basic stuff work, so passage of time won't help and we are stuck with half baked car forever?
And then I just happen to run across a video from Joe Scott reviewing his new Polestar 3 and it has SAME PROBLEMS as Lucid
I'm totally lost and confused now, what is going on, do I need this in my life now, is it exciting to be a part of, or terrifying?
Today's rant is over, taking a deep breath now...

I have had the same thought... but after a year with an Air, it's tempered by the fact that it's quite a bit better than when I picked it up, so I can see that things are getting fixed and getting better.

That gives me patience with some of the things that aren't fixed yet - they do make progress. Personally, I am pretty happy and habituated to the Air's software at present. I don't really want them to mess with it in a big way - just keep quashing bugs. Keep 3.0 for Gravity and Mid-Sized until it's solid, then move it over.

As a non-software guy, it is surprising just how hard it appears to be to write an operating system for a car. I mean, it makes sense when people (like Borski) lay it out, but we are used to cars being stable devices, it's hard to wrap our minds around them being more or less buggy messes at times. That's not to say everything always works in older cars, (ahem, voice recognition in my 2015 Honda) but once it doesn't work, I just kind of assume it will never work - half-baked features stay half baked for the life of a car. This is different, and simultaneously more disappointing and more promising all at once.

 

[eelpout]

I have probably been spoiled by my experiences, but just not willing to risk having to deal with software bugs that are undoubtedly due to many of these vehicles (Gravity, Polestar, etc.) being new and not fully sorted yet.

I'm currently on a Thanksgiving holiday and have a rental Polestar 3. Started throwing a couple faults this morning. Sigh. At least I got one to clear. (Great car to drive though!)

 

[Blue Lectroid]

I must not be such sophisticated connoisseur of vehicle dynamics because I really enjoyed my 2023 Model Y Long Range, never had any issues with it, never had to go to Tesla Owners forum, never had to reboot its software over 3 years of daily use. Other than overpromised FSD, which I never believed and never expected to work, Tesla software served me perfectly fine, including Autopilot for freeways. In the past month of Gravity ownership I started to miss no-hassle Tesla experience, but I gave Tesla to my son and he won't give it back now.

But your Tesla experience started at LEAST a dozen years after Tesla began selling cars (based on you talking about Model Y). Out of the box, the software in my 2018 Tesla Model 3P needed a reboot at least weekly, nearly killed me twice with phantom braking and it was released 12 years after Tesla released the first Roadster.

The first Airs shipped four years ago and, at least in the case of my ‘25 AGT, the software is light years ahead of where my Tesla Model 3 was until at least my fourth year of ownership (Tesla’s software circa 2023)

I really wish people would keep this context in mind. The fundamental reasons we buy cars — to drive — Lucid has managed to deliver a far superior hardware set than manufacturers (including Tesla) that have been around for a much, much longer time. Call me an optimist, but I believe the software WILL continue to evolve (it has significantly even in my initial 12 months of AGT ownership) and given the underlying strength of the hardware package? BAM, good things to come!!!

 

[RandomDesign]

But your Tesla experience started at LEAST a dozen years after Tesla began selling cars (based on you talking about Model Y). Out of the box, the software in my 2018 Tesla Model 3P needed a reboot at least weekly, nearly killed me twice with phantom braking and it was released 12 years after Tesla released the first Roadster.

The first Airs shipped four years ago and, at least in the case of my ‘25 AGT, the software is light years ahead of where my Tesla Model 3 was until at least my fourth year of ownership (Tesla’s software circa 2023)

I really wish people would keep this context in mind. The fundamental reasons we buy cars — to drive — Lucid has managed to deliver a far superior hardware set than manufacturers (including Tesla) that have been around for a much, much longer time. Call me an optimist, but I believe the software WILL continue to evolve (it has significantly even in my initial 12 months of AGT ownership) and given the underlying strength of the hardware package? BAM, good things to come!!!

While I mostly agree with you there's also something to be said for having software in a better state. Saying Tesla's software was just as bad 10-12 years ago isn't a terribly compelling argument to a lot of people. Early adopters? Sure. But Lucid needs to sell to more than just people willing to be early adopters and the more bad press they get for buggy/bad software the less people will even look at them as an option.