What's new
By:

Dream drive pro and autonomy subscription

tidmutt said:
I didn't drive the R2 for long enough to detect issues. I'll say this, I think I have more faith in them evolving their ADAS than I do Lucid. Maybe I am being unfair to Lucid, but that's my gut feel.

I will also say, Rivian charges $2.5K for their autonomy platform that provides lane centering, (and it's including with launch edition) unlike Lucid in the Air who charge nearly $7K.

I'm sort of going in the opposite directly. Tesla --> to Lucid (or something else). I'm over Tesla for now, although it's been a great vehicle overall, the software is extremely good. I wish they offered something different in a newer model other than just more refinement, I can't see myself buying another model Y performance just because it's too the same. I do think a 2027 Model Y Perf (or premium) is an incredibly competent vehicle. Just... snore.

Rivian felt a bit too "truck like" and the interior had a bit too much hard plastic.

Right now, Polestar is the most appealing to me and the risk with them leaving the US is servicing etc. Volvo will still be around so there is that.

Audi S6 etron is interesting, I'm going to go drive it... but the biggest deal breaker of all... NO DOG MODE.

The BMW iX3 was interesting but the more I hear the more I'm less inclined. Plus, NO DOG MODE.

My plan:

- Drive a Gravity
- Find out lease residual on Air with Dream Drive Pro (it could be that on a lease I'm not out too much)
- Drive the R2 again (it can take a few drives for me to gain an impression)
- Drive the Audi S6 etron
- Drive an IX3
- Drive the new Tesla Model Y Perf (just in case it wins me over again, despite being more of the same)
Click to expand...
Try Model 3 performance as well. It drives much better than the Y
 
tidmutt said:
Indeed.

I'm suggesting Lucid is just wrong here. All their competitors offer lane centering for far less.
Click to expand...
That is actually not true. Some? Yes. A lot? Yes. All? Nope. How the automakers achieve Lane Centering differs from brand to brand and so does how they charge for it. Some use cameras only. Some use cameras and radar. Some (Lucid) use cameras, radar, and lidar. Each of these approaches requires different hardware commitments and therefore different cost / price structures.

A lot of it depends on when they first implemented Lane Centering or the timing of their most recent architecture upgrade and how it is packaged within their ADAS offerings. For Air, Lucid specced it for 2021 launch and do not offer Lane Centering without hands-free, similar to Ford BlueCrusie and GM SuperCruise. For Gravity Lucid specced the hardware for 2025 delivery and did so in a way that allows separate spec of Lane Centering with or without hands-free. This gets into how Lane Centering is mechanically achieved.

Just looking at Lane Centering without hands-free, except where noted, some of the brand approaches are as follows....

Audi:
  • Audi includes lane centering with Adaptive Cruise.
  • Price depends on model. For some top end models it is included in price
  • For other models it is optional, ranging in price from $1,250 - 3,000 depending on model.

BMW:
  • DAPP costs $1,700 - 2,500 depending on model
  • Monthly subscription of $20/month or $150 - 210/yr depending on model
Ford: (BlueCruise is lane centering + handsfree)
  • Mach E has as standard equipment on all trims
  • All other models require additional purchases.
  • After 90-day trial BlueCruise can be subscribed for either $49.99/month or $495/year
  • Some vehicles can be ordered with BlueCruise lifetime subscription for $2,495. This is restricted to specific vehicles and trims.

GM: (SuperCruise is lane centering + handsfree)


  • GM is a very mixed bag. The only way to get Lane Centering is through using SuperCruise.
  • Top tier vehicles like Escalade, Optiq, Lyriq, Vistiq, Hummer, Sierra EV have it as standard equipment
  • Others like Chevrolet Bolt, Equinox EV, and Blazer EV have SuperCruise as an option.
  • For those where it is an option, the cost is $2,500 - 5,000 depending on model and trim
  • For all SuperCruise equipped vehicles, after 3 years it costs $39.99 per month to maintain the capability.

Hyundai"/ Kia / Genesis: (HDA is lane centering; HDA 2 adds handsfree)
  • Highway Driving Assist (HDA) can be purchased for $3 - 6,000 depending on model. It tends to be included or bundled on high trims like SEL with Convenience Package, Limited, or N Line. The costs of those inclusions is difficult to track due to additional content.
  • HDA 2 adds handsfree, automated lane changes and lane offset adjustment and is only available on top trims for an additional $8 - 12,000
  • HDA is typically standard content in Genesis vehicles. HDA 2 requires trim upgrades costing g $3,500 - 8,000 depending on the trim.


Mercedes-Benz:
  • $1,700 - 1,950 depending on model. Can be activated post-purchase
  • Standard equipment on top models (S-Glass, GLS)
  • Point-to-point can be subscribed at $3,950 for 3 years
Porsche:
  • On some models it can be specced for $1,400 - 3,500 depending on model
  • On other models it is bundled with with ACC at @ $3,500
 
Last edited:
martinjlm said:
How the automakers achieve Lane Centering differs from brand to brand and so does how they charge for it. Some use cameras only. Some use cameras and radar. Some (Lucid) use cameras, radar, and lidar. Each of these approaches requires different hardware commitments and therefore different cost / price structures.
Click to expand...
Radar and Lidar cannot see lane lines. They both see other cars but not the lane lines.
 
Adnillien said:
Radar and Lidar cannot see lane lines. They both see other cars but not the lane lines.
Click to expand...
True, but they can see other obstacles in the lane as well as construction shifts (barrels and barricades). My AGT usually enters construction zones with hands-free disabled. Then within 3 - 5 seconds it enables hands-free. I could be wrong, but I expect that this is due to radar picking up on the barrels and barricades and being able to navigate by them. But then...that's hands-free so I shouldn't have included that.
 
martinjlm said:
That is actually not true. Some? Yes. A lot? Yes. All? Nope. How the automakers achieve Lane Centering differs from brand to brand and so does how they charge for it. Some use cameras only. Some use cameras and radar. Some (Lucid) use cameras, radar, and lidar. Each of these approaches requires different hardware commitments and therefore different cost / price structures.

A lot of it depends on when they first implemented Lane Centering or the timing of their most recent architecture upgrade and how it is packaged within their ADAS offerings. For Air, Lucid specced it for 2021 launch and do not offer Lane Centering without hands-free, similar to Ford BlueCrusie and GM SuperCruise. For Gravity Lucid specced the hardware for 2025 delivery and did so in a way that allows separate spec of Lane Centering with or without hands-free. This gets into how Lane Centering is mechanically achieved.

Just looking at Lane Centering without hands-free, except where noted, some of the brand approaches are as follows....

Audi:
  • Audi includes lane centering with Adaptive Cruise.
  • Price depends on model. For some top end models it is included in price
  • For other models it is optional, ranging in price from $1,250 - 3,000 depending on model.

BMW:
  • DAPP costs $1,700 - 2,500 depending on model
  • Monthly subscription of $20/month or $150 - 210/yr depending on model
Ford: (BlueCruise is lane centering + handsfree)
  • Mach E has as standard equipment on all trims
  • All other models require additional purchases.
  • After 90-day trial BlueCruise can be subscribed for either $49.99/month or $495/year
  • Some vehicles can be ordered with BlueCruise lifetime subscription for $2,495. This is restricted to specific vehicles and trims.

GM: (SuperCruise is lane centering + handsfree)


  • GM is a very mixed bag. The only way to get Lane Centering is through using SuperCruise.
  • Top tier vehicles like Escalade, Optiq, Lyriq, Vistiq, Hummer, Sierra EV have it as standard equipment
  • Others like Chevrolet Bolt, Equinox EV, and Blazer EV have SuperCruise as an option.
  • For those where it is an option, the cost is $2,500 - 5,000 depending on model and trim
  • For all SuperCruise equipped vehicles, after 3 years it costs $39.99 per month to maintain the capability.

Hyundai"/ Kia / Genesis: (HDA is lane centering; HDA 2 adds handsfree)
  • Highway Driving Assist (HDA) can be purchased for $3 - 6,000 depending on model. It tends to be included or bundled on high trims like SEL with Convenience Package, Limited, or N Line. The costs of those inclusions is difficult to track due to additional content.
  • HDA 2 adds handsfree, automated lane changes and lane offset adjustment and is only available on top trims for an additional $8 - 12,000
  • HDA is typically standard content in Genesis vehicles. HDA 2 requires trim upgrades costing g $3,500 - 8,000 depending on the trim.


Mercedes-Benz:
  • $1,700 - 1,950 depending on model. Can be activated post-purchase
  • Standard equipment on top models (S-Glass, GLS)
  • Point-to-point can be subscribed at $3,950 for 3 years
Porsche:
  • On some models it can be specced for $1,400 - 3,500 depending on model
  • On other models it is bundled with with ACC at @ $3,500
Click to expand...
Great reply. However, my point still stands.

There is no way to get lane centering on the Air without spending nearly $7K, other vehicles offer it for far less. Often included in packages that may come with many other things.

All I can say is in the cars I am shopping, Lucid is not competitive.

You don't need Lidar for lane centering. Perhaps for hands free, although Tesla would beg to differ, but Lucid has chosen lidar for their stack, fine. But many vehicles offer it without Lidar.

In the end, as a customer, Lucid is not meeting my expectations (at least on the Air). That's the problem.
 
tidmutt said:
Great reply. However, my point still stands.

There is no way to get lane centering on the Air without spending nearly $7K, other vehicles offer it for far less. Often included in packages that may come with many other things.

All I can say is in the cars I am shopping, Lucid is not competitive.

You don't need Lidar for lane centering. Perhaps for hands free, although Tesla would beg to differ, but Lucid has chosen lidar for their stack, fine. But many vehicles offer it without Lidar.

In the end, as a customer, Lucid is not meeting my expectations (at least on the Air). That's the problem.
Click to expand...
Being competitive is always subjective. There are certain things that Lucid prioritized in designing the Air. You won’t find many cars that are competitive with the AGT when it comes to range, charging efficiency, or interior space. At the same time there are things that other sedans may be better at or cheaper. On the whole I believe the Air hits the mark particularly at its top GT trim, but there’s a price to pay for that. For me the trade off would be paying an extra $7K, but getting other features that are still at or near best in class.
 
Northpointe said:
Being competitive is always subjective. There are certain things that Lucid prioritized in designing the Air. You won’t find many cars that are competitive with the AGT when it comes to range, charging efficiency, or interior space. At the same time there are things that other sedans may be better at or cheaper. On the whole I believe the Air hits the mark particularly at its top GT trim, but there’s a price to pay for that. For me the trade off would be paying an extra $7K, but getting other features that are still at or near best in class.
Click to expand...
Good points, but they could offer lane centering at lower trim levels. Perhaps they don't want to alienate those who have spent large sums on the upgrades but not offering lane centering on the Pure and Touring for a reasonable price seems like a bad call.

If it is indeed on the Gravity without requiring Pro then that tells you something. Yes, different hardware stack etc. but I think it's well established that cameras can provide lane centering.

I'm not particularly interested in dropping GT money on an Air, subjectively it's lacking in other things. If I was going to drop that money I'd lean Porsche Taycan. That is of course, my subjective opinion.
 
tidmutt said:
Great reply. However, my point still stands.

There is no way to get lane centering on the Air without spending nearly $7K, other vehicles offer it for far less. Often included in packages that may come with many other things.

All I can say is in the cars I am shopping, Lucid is not competitive.

You don't need Lidar for lane centering. Perhaps for hands free, although Tesla would beg to differ, but Lucid has chosen lidar for their stack, fine. But many vehicles offer it without Lidar.

In the end, as a customer, Lucid is not meeting my expectations (at least on the Air). That's the problem.
Click to expand...
There is no one perfect car for everyone (unless you're a Tesla FSD fanatic 🤣 ). That's why in my original response I suggested the 3rd option...something other than Lucid. My larger point was, based on how they constructed the hardware, probably in 2018 or r earlier for a 2021 launch, Air was locked into a "Lane Centering tied to hands-free" approach. Same as GM, Ford, and other automakers. So yes, it is a high price if you want lane centering with Air. But you get more than lane centering. Gravity allows for lane centering without hands-free and more than likely Cosmos / Earth will also.
 
martinjlm said:
There is no one perfect car for everyone (unless you're a Tesla FSD fanatic 🤣 ). That's why in my original response I suggested the 3rd option...something other than Lucid. My larger point was, based on how they constructed the hardware, probably in 2018 or r earlier for a 2021 launch, Air was locked into a "Lane Centering tied to hands-free" approach. Same as GM, Ford, and other automakers. So yes, it is a high price if you want lane centering with Air. But you get more than lane centering. Gravity allows for lane centering without hands-free and more than likely Cosmos / Earth will also.
Click to expand...
Right, so you're saying the Lucid Air is uncompetitive at the Touring trim level. LOL

I doubt very much that they can't do it, they are choosing not to. Consumers vote with their feet.

I'll probably still talk to my Lucid sales guy and see what his thoughts are, but dropping $85-$88K on an Air that doesn't have lane centering is not going to happen for me.
 
tidmutt said:
...

I'll probably still talk to my Lucid sales guy and see what his thoughts are, but dropping $85-$88K on an Air that doesn't have lane centering is not going to happen for me.
Click to expand...
With all due respect...why bother? Sales rep can't change a thing.
 
tidmutt said:
Right, so you're saying the Lucid Air is uncompetitive at the Touring trim level. LOL

I doubt very much that they can't do it, they are choosing not to. Consumers vote with their feet.

I'll probably still talk to my Lucid sales guy and see what his thoughts are, but dropping $85-$88K on an Air that doesn't have lane centering is not going to happen for me.
Click to expand...
Just buy another car and be done with it.
 
tidmutt said:
Right, so you're saying the Lucid Air is uncompetitive at the Touring trim level. LOL

I doubt very much that they can't do it, they are choosing not to. Consumers vote with their feet.

I'll probably still talk to my Lucid sales guy and see what his thoughts are, but dropping $85-$88K on an Air that doesn't have lane centering is not going to happen for me.
Click to expand...
Or you could just look here

Personally all of the alternatives look far better than a MY, which to me looks like it was designed to appeal to a child. And about as comfortable as a child’s toy car. To me they are waaay overpriced.

Lucids not for you? No problem, get something else. I mean my alternative vehicle, gas included, would be a Bentley Continental GT3. Lay out your requirements and go drive cars, pretty certain you’ll find cars that are more comfortable.
 
tidmutt said:
Why?
Click to expand...
Because, apparently, Lucid doesn’t have what you want at the price you are willing to pay. And that’s ok, it’s how it works. We’d all love to get a Bentley for the price of an e bike, but that’s not happening.
 
One major difference between DDP on the AIr and DDP2 on the Gravity is that the Gravity will be getting the NVIDIA -Point to Point self drive system in the near future that will give you “hopefully” similar to Tesla FSD experience. The DDP on the Air is done with major future improvements other than basic fine tuning of current system. To charge the same price for the two different DDP systems is a major issue. Worth the extra on Gravity but debatable on the Air.
 
Aka-none said:
Or you could just look here

Personally all of the alternatives look far better than a MY, which to me looks like it was designed to appeal to a child. And about as comfortable as a child’s toy car. To me they are waaay overpriced.

Lucids not for you? No problem, get something else. I mean my alternative vehicle, gas included, would be a Bentley Continental GT3. Lay out your requirements and go drive cars, pretty certain you’ll find cars that are more comfortable.
Click to expand...
I'm aware of those and I'm not interested. Maybe the Ioniq 5 N but I don't love Hyundai interiors.

I LIKE the Lucid, I don't love the missing feature.

Gravity is growing on me though.
 
martinjlm said:
There is no one perfect car for everyone (unless you're a Tesla FSD fanatic 🤣 ). That's why in my original response I suggested the 3rd option...something other than Lucid. My larger point was, based on how they constructed the hardware, probably in 2018 or r earlier for a 2021 launch, Air was locked into a "Lane Centering tied to hands-free" approach. Same as GM, Ford, and other automakers. So yes, it is a high price if you want lane centering with Air. But you get more than lane centering. Gravity allows for lane centering without hands-free and more than likely Cosmos / Earth will also.
Click to expand...
The answer is a low-mileage off lease Air that is loaded with all the features already:) You can have your cake.
 
illopp00 said:
The answer is a low-mileage off lease Air that is loaded with all the features already:) You can have your cake.
Click to expand...
I would second that. And although Lucid charges a hefty premium for DDP and SSP, it’s not reflected in used car pricing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top