Battery preconditioning before driving

[dcm]

Everyone has said that you can't precondition while plugged in but nobody has said directly that the mere fact that the plug is connected to the car, whether charging or not, precludes preconditioning.

 

[Halodde]

Why would you first have to unplug.

I believe the solution to warming the battery before a long, cold trip is to schedule charging (the night before) to be completed just before the start of the trip. Based on what @borski
is saying, the BMS of the charger handles the pre-conditioning.

I recall a member posting that as their solution, just don't recall who and where.

With the current Android app, you cannot precondition from the app when the car is plugged in with an L2 cable. I don't know if you can do it from within the car. But, that would seriously defeat the purpose if I have to get bundled up and go out to the car 45 minutes before leaving just to push a button on the pilot panel to precondition. I park outside all year... in Buffalo.

Everyone has said that you can't precondition while plugged in but nobody has said directly that the mere fact that the plug is connected to the car, whether charging or not, precludes preconditioning.

See above. If the cable is plugged in for L2 charging whether the car is charging or not, there is no precondition battery option in the Android app. No idea if this is the same for ios.


It would be ideal to be able to use the preconditioning function while the cable is plugged in. If I could do that, I'd charge to my desired level and use the preconditioning function for a while prior to leaving. With this plan, the car would draw the power needed for preconditioning from the battery and it would be replaced via the charging cable. But, that's not an option. So, I've resorted to the same strategy mentioned above. Set the charge for 10% below what you want and then up it to your desired level about an hour before you want to leave. The BMS warms the battery as it charges the last 10%. However, even doing this, I still get the limited power/energy message. This leads me to believe that the precondition function warms the battery better than L2 charging does. But that's just a guess.

Sorry, I just realized this was about the Gravity. I have an Air so the above information may not apply to the Gravity.

 

[msaunders9430]

With the current Android app, you cannot precondition from the app when the car is plugged in with an L2 cable. I don't know if you can do it from within the car. But, that would seriously defeat the purpose if I have to get bundled up and go out to the car 45 minutes before leaving just to push a button on the pilot panel to precondition. I park outside all year... in Buffalo.

See above. If the cable is plugged in for L2 charging whether the car is charging or not, there is no precondition battery option in the Android app. No idea if this is the same for ios.


It would be ideal to be able to use the preconditioning function while the cable is plugged in. If I could do that, I'd charge to my desired level and use the preconditioning function for a while prior to leaving. With this plan, the car would draw the power needed for preconditioning from the battery and it would be replaced via the charging cable. But, that's not an option. So, I've resorted to the same strategy mentioned above. Set the charge for 10% below what you want and then up it to your desired level about an hour before you want to leave. The BMS warms the battery as it charges the last 10%. However, even doing this, I still get the limited power/energy message. This leads me to believe that the precondition function warms the battery better than L2 charging does. But that's just a guess.

Sorry, I just realized this was about the Gravity. I have an Air so the above information may not apply to the Gravity.

OK.

My thinking was that the BMS via L2 charging warms the battery.
Basically, the BMS, via L2 charging performs the precondition function.
Therefore, there's no need to unplug to activate the precondition function via the app or in the car.
However, your belief that "the precondition function warms the battery better than L2 charging does" may still require the precondition function via the app or in car.

What if scheduling the charge time such that the desired charge level is reached within 15 minutes or so of driving?
Less time for change in battery temp from optimal?
Less likely to get power/energy message?

I haven't done many long range trips in the cold yet, but I have a few planned, so I'm thinking ahead.

 

[Halodde]

OK.

My thinking was that the BMS via L2 charging warms the battery.
Basically, the BMS, via L2 charging performs the precondition function.
Therefore, there's no need to unplug to activate the precondition function via the app or in the car.
However, your belief that "the precondition function warms the battery better than L2 charging does" may still require the precondition function via the app or in car.

What if scheduling the charge time such that the desired charge level is reached within 15 minutes or so of driving?
Less time for change in battery temp from optimal?
Less likely to get power/energy message?

I haven't done many long range trips in the cold yet, but I have a few planned, so I'm thinking ahead.

Sadly, every day for me is like a road trip for most people lol.

And, yes, I believe that if you were able to properly time your scheduled charging so that it ended at your desired level near the time you wanted to leave, that would accomplish the same thing as my strategy. The L2 charging would warm the battery to a reasonable level. Again, I can't swear to the fact that the BMS L2 charging does not warm the battery as well as preconditioning. That's just the way it appears in my experience.

 

[Halodde]

I don't do what you are suggesting though. I don't feel like jerking around and modifying my scheduled charging every day based on how far I need to drive and how long I anticipate the charging to take. I leave my scheduled charging set to start after midnight and go to 10% below my expected need. Then, I basically start the charge for the last 10% before I get in the shower to get ready for the day. Seems to work ok.

 

[illopp00]

Interestingly, when plugged in (home charger) the option to precondition disappears from the app. So if you want to warm the battery while plugged in, for a long (cold) trip it appears you’d first have to unplug .

In the cold I typically do this, I precondition in the app manually for charging for 30 mins, then I go plug-in the L2 and charge back the 3% it costs to heat the battery and heat up the cabin at the same time with keep mode. Although you can use the heated wheel and seats and lower the HVAC temp quite significantly to save energy.

 

[Disco Marathon]

It seems like the Gravity does not automatically precondition the battery while plugged into an L2 charger. I'm still seeing the "Energy limited due to cold battery" warning in the mobile app. Is there a way to warm the battery while plugged into an L2 charger, for example, before leaving for a cold-weather road trip? My range has been terrible in extremely cold weather (220 miles of dynamic range on an 80% charge). I'd like to warm the battery while the car is plugged into an L2 charger, just before leaving for the roadtrip.

 

[msaunders9430]

It seems like the Gravity does not automatically precondition the battery while plugged into an L2 charger. I'm still seeing the "Energy limited due to cold battery" warning in the mobile app. Is there a way to warm the battery while plugged into an L2 charger, for example, before leaving for a cold-weather road trip? My range has been terrible in extremely cold weather (220 miles of dynamic range on an 80% charge). I'd like to warm the battery while the car is plugged into an L2 charger, just before leaving for the roadtrip.

Based on member posts, scheduling charging to a certain level prior to departure works.
Just being plugged into an L2 charger won't automatically start preconditioning.

According to the manual, preconditioning isn't needed with L2 charging.

What's puzzling to me is that based on the manual, preconditioning only occurs with L3 charging.
However, if preconditioning means optimizing the battery temp, how it that different from automatically heating or cooling the battery for charging which is done before L2 charging?

Both are done by the car.
One (preconditioning) occurs prior to DC charging.
The other (automatically heating or cooling) occurs prior to AC charging.

Preconditioning and automatic heating/cooling the battery seem the same.

 

[Westchester Air]

Based on member posts, scheduling charging to a certain level prior to departure works.
Just being plugged into an L2 charger won't automatically start preconditioning.

According to the manual, preconditioning isn't needed with L2 charging.

What's puzzling to me is that based on the manual, preconditioning only occurs with L3 charging.
However, if preconditioning means optimizing the battery temp, how it that different from automatically heating or cooling the battery for charging which is done before L2 charging?

Both are done by the car.
One (preconditioning) occurs prior to DC charging.
The other (automatically heating or cooling) occurs prior to AC charging.

Preconditioning and automatic heating/cooling the battery seem the same.


View attachment 35110

I think the distinction here is that preconditioning is necessary for proper L3 charging and isn't available to simply warm the battery for optimal USE (as opposed to optimal charging). Apparently, like you said, the only way to sort of replicate that is to charge close to departure, which as a byproduct warms the battery.

 

[msaunders9430]

I think the distinction here is that preconditioning is necessary for proper L3 charging and isn't available to simply warm the battery for optimal USE (as opposed to optimal charging). Apparently, like you said, the only way to sort of replicate that is to charge close to departure, which as a byproduct warms the battery.

Got it.
Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Disco Marathon]

Any idea how long in advance to restart L2 charging? I tried this morning about 15 minutes before I took the car off the charger, but still received the cold battery alert from the vehicle.

 

[Westchester Air]

Any idea how long in advance to restart L2 charging? I tried this morning about 15 minutes before I took the car off the charger, but still received the cold battery alert from the vehicle.

Have done over 30 minutes when cold (below freezing) and still have gotten the cold battery alert. It still helps though. Seems to warm (via driving) a little quicker. My guess is even an hour would be ok...

 

[DS9]

Any idea how long in advance to restart L2 charging? I tried this morning about 15 minutes before I took the car off the charger, but still received the cold battery alert from the vehicle.

I usually do an hour before I leave.

 

[TahoeMichael]

Any idea how long in advance to restart L2 charging? I tried this morning about 15 minutes before I took the car off the charger, but still received the cold battery alert from the vehicle.

Seems like a request for an battery warming feature is a good use of Lucid's new software feedback email address.

 

[Halodde]

Any idea how long in advance to restart L2 charging? I tried this morning about 15 minutes before I took the car off the charger, but still received the cold battery alert from the vehicle.

If charging via L2 is comparable to preconditioning, 45 minutes of L2 should be about equivalent. With my charging set up, my car charges at about 10%/hr on L2. So, I usually start my last 10% about an hour before I need to leave. It's not an exact science and refer to previous messages regarding the effectiveness of warming the battery via L2 charging vs preconditioning. YMMV

 

[Halodde]

Seems like a request for an battery warming feature is a good use of Lucid's new software feedback email address.

I fully support this! Regardless of being plugged in or not, there should be an option to warm/condition *anything* that needs to be warm/conditioned for optimal efficiency before leaving for a drive.

 

[msaunders9430]

Seems like a request for an battery warming feature is a good use of Lucid's new software feedback email address.

I like the idea.
If the car can condition that battery before charging, do the same before driving.

If that feature is provided, I would think it would not be enabled if a charger is plugged in; same as currently is with the preconditioning feature.
However, I could be wrong.

If the feature enables the car's BMS or BMTS is conditioning the battery for optimal use prior to cold weather driving, that conditioning should happen when there's is no electric current flowing to the battery. Othewise, the battery's temp is changing from charging while the BMS/BMTS is trying to condition that battery; a continuous conflict.

I'm thinking the car stops preconditioning if a driver gets to a DC charger and starts charging before preconditioning is complete.

Therefore, with this new feature, if a charging cable is plugged in, the car doesn't know when charging may start, but it knows it's possible at any time.
Therefore, the feature would not be enable if a charging cable is plugged in; same as is now.

 

[TahoeMichael]

I like the idea.
If the car can condition that battery before charging, do the same before driving.

If that feature is provided, I would think it would not be enabled if a charger is plugged in; same as currently is with the preconditioning feature.
However, I could be wrong.

If the feature enables the car's BMS or BMTS is conditioning the battery for optimal use prior to cold weather driving, that conditioning should happen when there's is no electric current flowing to the battery. Othewise, the battery's temp is changing from charging while the BMS/BMTS is trying to condition that battery; a continuous conflict.

I'm thinking the car stops preconditioning if a driver gets to a DC charger and starts charging before preconditioning is complete.

Therefore, with this new feature, if a charging cable is plugged in, the car doesn't know when charging may start, but it knows it's possible at any time.
Therefore, the feature would not be enable if a charging cable is plugged in; same as is now.

This is way outside my engineering expertise. But my impression is that high-speed DC charging requires battery cooling while the charging is happening, and so at some level the battery management is capable of coordinating simultaneous temperature management and charging. Maybe there's something fundamental about AC charging which makes that harder. But I'd be a little surprised it was a fundamental hardware limitation.

 

[msaunders9430]

This is way outside my engineering expertise. But my impression is that high-speed DC charging requires battery cooling while the charging is happening, and so at some level the battery management is capable of coordinating simultaneous temperature management and charging. Maybe there's something fundamental about AC charging which makes that harder. But I'd be a little surprised it was a fundamental hardware limitation.

I'm not sure about that simultaneous temperature management capability during dc charging either.

I suppose also, Lucid could program the feature such that as long as charging is not occurring, it would be enabled.

If the feature you suggested can be done, Lucid will figure it out.

 

[msaunders9430]

This is way outside my engineering expertise. But my impression is that high-speed DC charging requires battery cooling while the charging is happening, and so at some level the battery management is capable of coordinating simultaneous temperature management and charging. Maybe there's something fundamental about AC charging which makes that harder. But I'd be a little surprised it was a fundamental hardware limitation.

Seems like pre-conditioning does continue for awhile (initial phase) after dc charging begins. At least according to Google search, so ...

The explanation provided makes sense; optimal battery temp for charging.