Adjusting Regenerative Braking

[socktucker]

Interesting. That’s not how any EV I’ve ever used works, afaik.

I’ve only ever heard of all off or blended. BMW has a “B” mode that does something like super heavy regen but it sucks so bad it feels like the car is broken.

 

[DS9]

I’ve only ever heard of all off or blended. BMW has a “B” mode that does something like super heavy regen but it sucks so bad it feels like the car is broken.

I prefer D mode with adaptive regen

 

[socktucker]

I prefer D mode with adaptive regen

Same.

 

[Xtor]

Only had my gravity for 2 months before “someone” rear ended another car, I will have to say having the ability coast but get regen when braking is needed is better than having to figure out how to be perfect on the gas pedal. I’m sure this can be learned but just letting off the gas pedal and coasting is way easier and better for efficiency. Now I could be wrong about coasting being more efficient but converting deceleration to energy has to have loss

 

[Vital]

I feel like I need a Medium Regen setting, between standard and high, or custom adjustable Regen settings.
For example, if the standard is 5 and high is 10, then adjustable Would be:
Med 6-7-8-9. Or Cust 2-3-4-6-7-8.

 

[Truthlesshunter]

That is not ideal at all. I may not like one pedal drive (ie I prefer the car to just coast when I release accelerator) but when I press the brakes I always expect an EV to use regen first to slow the car down and onlly apply actual brakes if I press the pedal more and regen isn't enough. That's pretty much how every other EV I used behaves.

funny...i miss how the taycan had a true "completely off" mode. It may it super efficient for medium speed two lane roads (think ~50mph).

Even if people think the regen is "truly off"..there is still some motor braking even if it's not being "regenerated" when it's completely off. It still slightly slows it down.

Meanwhile, on the taycan, if you turned it off, it was like coasting in neutral of a manual transmission and only started using the regen with blended braking when you push the brake pedal. I truly believe it's one of the reasons why the taycan was way more efficient than the numbers on paper.

 

[L-Dude]

It works like that in the Volvo C40. And I have to double check, but I think in to wife's GV60 as well.

That's also how it worked in my Audi. Pressing the brake pedal caused the car to slow using regen only. The harder you pressed the brake, the more aggressive the regen. Once you get to very low speeds the mechanical kicked in. the car would simply coast when you took your foot off the accelerator. It is a far superior system, IMO.

 

[doubletwist]

That's also how it worked in my Audi. Pressing the brake pedal caused the car to slow using regen only. The harder you pressed the brake, the more aggressive the regen. Once you get to very low speeds the mechanical kicked in. the car would simply coast when you took your foot off the accelerator. It is a far superior system, IMO.

While the Volvo does it better than my wife's GV60, I still hate it because I can feel the change in braking power when it switches. I'll keep the brake pedal at a constant level to smoothly stop, and when the car switches from regen to physical braking, it causes the brakes to either suddenly apply too much pressure and it slams to a stop before I intended, or it transitions too slowly and I overshoot where I was aiming to stop.

I don't have to worry about this happening in my Air, ever.

Perhaps someday when the systems are good enough to be PERFECT, it might be a good thing to do but it's not ready in my eyes.

 

[Spaceship]

Totally down to opinion, but kind of blows my mind that people still prefer to press on the brake and hold on to it. Even when I owned ICE vehicles, I used the HOLD function at red lights. 2PD has always seemed like more work. I'll always concede that regen was weird at first but intuitive after a few minutes of driving. I switch back and forth between my ICE vehicle and EV, and it's easy to adapt when switching back and forth, but on the day to day, 1PD is way less stressful. I do see the benefit to coasting on longer trips, and I am glad Lucid offers this options versus Rivian and Tesla. All the other options being discussed here just seem really complex and round about ways to do the same thing - slow the car down. I get why manufacturers don't offer every option under the sun in this regard. I'd have a safety concern if someone can do like regen + creep + whatever else has been tossed around. I'd want my vehicle to be predictable, not a string of different choices for different scenarios.

 

[victoryroad]

That may be so, but Lucid was specifically designed for performance and driving Dynamics, and I have yet to experience any vehicle that blends regen braking with physical brakes in a way that actually feels good.

There's also something to be said for regen actually being off when it's set to no regen.

Personally, I'm very happy with the settings available on the lucid.

Right. Lucid may be different from other EV regen but it works well for me on high regen and I enjoy one pedal driving. Moreover, it is unlikely that significant regen can be gained when braking.

 

[dbsb3233]

Totally down to opinion, but kind of blows my mind that people still prefer to press on the brake and hold on to it. Even when I owned ICE vehicles, I used the HOLD function at red lights. 2PD has always seemed like more work. I'll always concede that regen was weird at first but intuitive after a few minutes of driving. I switch back and forth between my ICE vehicle and EV, and it's easy to adapt when switching back and forth, but on the day to day, 1PD is way less stressful. I do see the benefit to coasting on longer trips, and I am glad Lucid offers this options versus Rivian and Tesla. All the other options being discussed here just seem really complex and round about ways to do the same thing - slow the car down. I get why manufacturers don't offer every option under the sun in this regard. I'd have a safety concern if someone can do like regen + creep + whatever else has been tossed around. I'd want my vehicle to be predictable, not a string of different choices for different scenarios.

Not sure what you mean by "safety concern if someone can do like regen + creep + whatever else has been tossed around". Safety concern how? Like the same person driving multiple cars that act differently? That's actually one of the reasons I prefer regen + creep, when we had one EV and one ICE. Moving back and forth between a car where the final stop is press down and a car where the final stop is lift up have 2 different muscle memory actions, which could lead to a mistake in a split-second automatic reaction.

But that isn't the main reason I prefer regen + creep (2PD). Short precise movement in the garage or a parking space is. If I'm stopped and decide I want to inch forward another 6" in my garage, or when backing into a charger, I find that much easier and safer to modulate with creep and controlled with the brake pedal. I find it much easier to move just a few inches. This was especially true in my first EV (Mach-E), which had a very strong creep. Once you pressed the accelerator pedal to break it out of hold (in 1PD mode), you lurched almost a foot before you could even pull back to stop it.

The other reason I like it better is what has been mentioned a few times - my ankle gets sore if I have to keep holding it in the same position constantly. It's just more comfortable to move it around some (which moving between accelerator and brake pedals does).

As you say, it's totally down to opinion (personal preference). No right or wrong either way. It is a tad insulting when someone suggests that those that prefer 2PD "haven't learned to do it right". You didn't say that, I'm just using this reply to mention that it comes up from time to time in these 1PD v 2PD discussions. While there is a "getting used to it" period, it doesn't mean those that still prefer 2PD "haven't learned". We learned and simply like 2PD better than 1PD. Like anything, there's pros and cons to both methods.

 

[Saksak]

Can regenerative braking be turned off and then on again while driving so that the car doesn't brake automatically if your foot is removed from the accelerator?

You can map regen setting to the steering wheel custom button.

 

[dbsb3233]

Moreover, it is unlikely that significant regen can be gained when braking.

I don't think that's true. There's no reason the brake pedal can't use just as much regen as the accelerator pedal. In blended braking (which most manufacturers of EVs have), the brake pedal simply applies more regen slowing the harder you press up to the point where it's max'd out and you're asking for more (press hard on the brakes) where it then starts adding friction brakes to it.

At least that's always been my understanding of how it works. For normal (gentle) slowing, it's all regen until you get down to that 3 MPH point where regen can't do any more and friction brakes have to do the rest.

 

[doubletwist]

I think a lot of the disagreement and confusion has to do with how many different ways there are to do braking, as well as overlaps and misuse of terminology.

* Classic braking - no regen at all, no auto hold. However hard you press the brakes is how much braking you have. May have slight slowdown involved from engine braking.

* One pedal driving - the new hotness. Lifting off the accelerator results in regen braking (at various levels) with an auto hold once you've stopped. Includes the vehicle automatically applying physical brakes for the last few feet of braking. Lucid can do this no problem.

And then there's some in-between methods, some of which may often be confused with one pedal driving by many drivers.

* Classic Plus - No regen braking, but the car will Auto hold once you're stopped. Many newer ICE vehicle's implemented this.

* Nearly one pedal driving (roll) - you have regen braking as you lift off the accelerator, but no auto hold. You have to press the pedal yourself for the final few feet, and keep the brake pressed until you're ready to move again. If you lift off the brake but don't touch the accelerator, the car will 'roll' As if it were in neutral, or a clutch pedal was pressed. (This is my personal preference for a variety of reasons)

* Nearly one pedal driving (creep) - nearly the same as the previous one, you have regen braking as you lift off the accelerator, but no auto hold. You have to press the pedal yourself for the final few feet, and keep the brake pressed until you're ready to move again. However, in this case, if you let off the brak the car will start to creep forward slowly before you touch the accelerator, similar to old automatics.

Then you have a separate class of braking terminology which is independent of the above classifications:

* 100% physical - the pressing of the brake pedal is controlling only the physical brakes (this is the Lucid way). (Also, my preference at this stage of the technology available)

* Blended braking - pressing the brake pedal starts with regen braking, then blends in the physical brakes when you exceed the braking capacity of regen. Results in increased overall efficiency, but with the current state of technology, I feel like the transition is not smooth enough YET, so I don't like it.

Hopefully a) I didn't miss any options and b) this helps clarify things for folks.

I actually love that the Lucid (at my Air) is configurable enough that it can use ANY of the above options, with the exception of blended braking. I'm not sure if there's another manufacturer which gives that kind of flexibility to the user.

Oh and one more thing, the level of regen braking is adjustable, again independent of all the other options. Any of the options above can be combined with adjustable levels of regen braking.

 

[dbsb3233]

I feel like I need a Medium Regen setting, between standard and high, or custom adjustable Regen settings.
For example, if the standard is 5 and high is 10, then adjustable Would be:
Med 6-7-8-9. Or Cust 2-3-4-6-7-8.

I agree on the need for a medium regen setting, but to me that would be below both Standard and High on the Gravity. I find Standard to be very strong on the Gravity, like an 8. With High maybe a 9. I can barely feel any difference between them. To the point where even just a slight lift on the accelerator pedal creates pretty hard slowing on both.

The 3rd level I'd like to see added would be below Standard. I'd still want it to be strong enough to still cover all normal slowdowns (since the brake pedal offer no regen at all and would lose a lot of efficiency if needing to use it far more often). But a medium regen would allow for more room in the pedal to modulate it, making it easier to slow down more gently, and soften that often harsh action of dropping out of ACC.

 

[dbsb3233]

I think a lot of the disagreement and confusion has to do with how many different ways there are to do braking, as well as overlaps and misuse of terminology.

* Classic braking - no regen at all, no auto hold. However hard you press the brakes is how much braking you have. May have slight slowdown involved from engine braking.

* One pedal driving - the new hotness. Lifting off the accelerator results in regen braking (at various levels) with an auto hold once you've stopped. Includes the vehicle automatically applying physical brakes for the last few feet of braking. Lucid can do this no problem.

And then there's some in-between methods, some of which may often be confused with one pedal driving by many drivers.

* Classic Plus - No regen braking, but the car will Auto hold once you're stopped. Many newer ICE vehicle's implemented this.

* Nearly one pedal driving (roll) - you have regen braking as you lift off the accelerator, but no auto hold. You have to press the pedal yourself for the final few feet, and keep the brake pressed until you're ready to move again. If you lift off the brake but don't touch the accelerator, the car will 'roll' As if it were in neutral, or a clutch pedal was pressed. (This is my personal preference for a variety of reasons)

* Nearly one pedal driving (creep) - nearly the same as the previous one, you have regen braking as you lift off the accelerator, but no auto hold. You have to press the pedal yourself for the final few feet, and keep the brake pressed until you're ready to move again. However, in this case, if you let off the brak the car will start to creep forward slowly before you touch the accelerator, similar to old automatics.

Then you have a separate class of braking terminology which is independent of the above classifications:

* 100% physical - the pressing of the brake pedal is controlling only the physical brakes (this is the Lucid way). (Also, my preference at this stage of the technology available)

* Blended braking - pressing the brake pedal starts with regen braking, then blends in the physical brakes when you exceed the braking capacity of regen. Results in increased overall efficiency, but with the current state of technology, I feel like the transition is not smooth enough YET, so I don't like it.

Hopefully a) I didn't miss any options and b) this helps clarify things for folks.

I actually love that the Lucid (at my Air) is configurable enough that it can use ANY of the above options, with the exception of blended braking. I'm not sure if there's another manufacturer which gives that kind of flexibility to the user.

Oh and one more thing, the level of regen braking is adjustable, again independent of all the other options. Any of the options above can be combined with adjustable levels of regen braking.

Yep. Some comments seem to suggest they think 1PD means regen on. That's not the case. That impacts use of the accelerator pedal but it's not when determines whether you drive it with just 1 pedal or 2. 1PD (at least for the Gravity) means HOLD instead of CREEP. And it only impacts that last 3 MPH. HOLD will automatically apply the friction brakes for you when you get below 3 MPH (which is the approximate point that regen needs help slowing/stopping the car). CREEP means the car will keep powering forward at 3 MPH, thus requiring the press of the brake pedal to further slow or stop it (thus 2PD).

 

[Spaceship]

Not sure what you mean by "safety concern if someone can do like regen + creep + whatever else has been tossed around". Safety concern how? Like the same person driving multiple cars that act differently? That's actually one of the reasons I prefer regen + creep, when we had one EV and one ICE. Moving back and forth between a car where the final stop is press down and a car where the final stop is lift up have 2 different muscle memory actions, which could lead to a mistake in a split-second automatic reaction.

But that isn't the main reason I prefer regen + creep (2PD). Short precise movement in the garage or a parking space is. If I'm stopped and decide I want to inch forward another 6" in my garage, or when backing into a charger, I find that much easier and safer to modulate with creep and controlled with the brake pedal. I find it much easier to move just a few inches. This was especially true in my first EV (Mach-E), which had a very strong creep. Once you pressed the accelerator pedal to break it out of hold (in 1PD mode), you lurched almost a foot before you could even pull back to stop it.

The other reason I like it better is what has been mentioned a few times - my ankle gets sore if I have to keep holding it in the same position constantly. It's just more comfortable to move it around some (which moving between accelerator and brake pedals does).

As you say, it's totally down to opinion (personal preference). No right or wrong either way. It is a tad insulting when someone suggests that those that prefer 2PD "haven't learned to do it right". You didn't say that, I'm just using this reply to mention that it comes up from time to time in these 1PD v 2PD discussions. While there is a "getting used to it" period, it doesn't mean those that still prefer 2PD "haven't learned". We learned and simply like 2PD better than 1PD. Like anything, there's pros and cons to both methods.

Completely get where you are coming from. We all have different opinions and that is totally fine. No right or wrong way, just preference.

My concerns with safety goes to something like some EVs I've driven. Silverado EV could be put in 1PD, but it would creep in reverse, even in 1PD! That was confusing and borderline dangerous as I did not expect it the first few times I drove it. Kia EV9 defaults to regen + creep (at least when I had it) and I would have to switch it to full 1PD each time. More of a pain in the butt but also same issue where I'd expect to be in 1PD and had to change it each time I drove off. A system should allow you to pick your preference and stick to it or keep it predictable. That was what my comment was directed at but again all down to preference and we are seeing manufacturers keep playing with this formula as EVs take off.

 

[DeaneG]

Fun fact, Tesla vehicles didn't have blended braking until the refreshed Model Y.
That alone is 9 million EVs on the road without blended braking.

Regenerative braking drives like a manual-transmission car, which I leaned to drive on and still enjoy in a sports car.
Lack of regenerative braking, in favor of blended braking with creep, drives like an automatic transmission car.

After driving EVs so long it is unnerving to me that a gas car starts moving when you take your foot off the brake. It feels like it is out of control.

 

[Spaceship]

Fun fact, Tesla vehicles didn't have blended braking until the refreshed Model Y.
That alone is 9 million EVs on the road without blended braking.

Regenerative braking drives like a manual-transmission car, which I leaned to drive on and still enjoy in a sports car.
Lack of regenerative braking, in favor of blended braking with creep, drives like an automatic transmission car.

After driving EVs so long it is unnerving to me that a gas car starts moving when you take your foot off the brake. It feels like it is out of control.

Agree. The first time I got in a car to drive at 16 I was terrified that the second I moved it from park, it started moving on its own. First time I drove an EV, it felt like a revelation. IMO a vehicle shouldn't move without any input. I know we all grew up in a world where that it is not the case, but thinking of it from a perspective of a new driver, it is jarring. I can tolerate that behavior on ICE vehicles because that is how it always has been, on EVs it just feels odd/unnatural. Again, in my opinion/experiences.

 

[DeaneG]

Agree. The first time I got in a car to drive at 16 I was terrified that the second I moved it from park, it started moving on its own. First time I drove an EV, it felt like a revelation. IMO a vehicle shouldn't move without any input. I know we all grew up in a world where that it is not the case, but thinking of it from a perspective of a new driver, it is jarring. I can tolerate that behavior on ICE vehicles because that is how it always has been, on EVs it just feels odd/unnatural. Again, in my opinion/experiences.

Creep and lift-throttle coasting are just byproducts of inefficient automatic transmission torque converter mechanical / hydraulic technology. EVs can emulate this behavior to make people comfortable.