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gaskiller said:
Do you understand what FSD means? Don’t believe everything a billionaire tells you….
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Yes I understand, however when the car drives me unassisted to my destination, gets me there without any intervention on my part, parks the car perfectly, that defines to a T my wishes for FSD. There are times you are tired and may have a long drive ahead of you and having the ability to turn that driving over to the car is, IMO, invaluable…yes, even if ‘supervised’. If you don’t see the value in that because of some searing hatred you have for one man, there’s not much I can say. I don’t really care what Musk says or claims anymore than I take what you say as being objective. I assess the product to see if it meets my needs. Period.

Like any car there are pluses & minuses, but in the end, when the car exceeds my expectations, that’s all that counts.
 
socktucker said:
💯 it’s been 10 years and FSD still sucks
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what tesla and fsd software do you currently own? go try the newest version before turning into gaskiller lol. the shear hatred people have on musk is crazy to me. I don't like him either, but I'm not going out of my way just to hate on him.
 
I had a loaner MY with the latest FSD one month ago. I used it every single day for two weeks, highway and surface streets. Over 600 miles total as we had to pick up kids from two camps. It made two critical errors of wanting to drive the wrong way. Three times made the minor error of getting in the turning lane while needing to go straight. Cannot avoid potholes. Stops at stop signs where the sign is and then creeps out (that's the law, but not natural). Gets into the right most lane (when three or more lanes) on the highway to prepare for an exit way too early. Could not get through two construction zones with a person controlling traffic without me taking over. Plus phantom braking.

I have to pay more attention than when I am driving. It's impressive but in the dangerous middle ground. I'll just drive myself, thank you. The basic lane keep with ACC is all I'll use for now.
 
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Now what Lucid is trying to find someone to blame again for the stock (short sellers, web journals bla bla) 😂
 
LVAGT said:
what tesla and fsd software do you currently own? go try the newest version before turning into gaskiller lol. the shear hatred people have on musk is crazy to me. I don't like him either, but I'm not going out of my way just to hate on him.
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I’ve never met him
 
Haters will hate. I'm blessed every day I get up, whether my car runs or not.

Dream Ahead!
 
Lucken said:
You have obviously not driven the latest version of FSD on a Tesla. I was an outspoken critic of it on my 2017 MS. It was terrible. On my 2026 MY it is nothing short of a revelation. Since I’ve used it, it has not made a single mistake except for a rare navigation error which really has nothing to do with FSD. It has negotiated complex routes with traffic circles as well as virtually anything else I’ve thrown at it. Friends have been utterly amazed not only at its accuracy, but its smoothness. Unless I tell someone it’s on FSD, they have no idea unless they watch me from the back.

So you couldn’t be more wrong to think ‘it still sucks’.
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This has simply not been my experience in recent Teslas with FSD.

At least around me, when not on the highway, it still very much sucks and makes mistakes somewhat regularly.

As a comparison, I’ve personally never seen a Waymo make a mistake. But I also fully believe it can and does happen, though I suspect at a much lower rate than FSD (albeit, the statistics agree with that too)
 
Lucken said:
It must be, but it’s interesting that my experience doesn’t seem to be so unique as I read other owner’s experiences in other parts of the country.

We were headed back from the Hamptons on the weekend and headed in to a setting sun. Because of the low sun angle, some smears on the windshield became visible. Without any intervention on my part, the FSD automatically ‘saw’ the streaks and initiated a few washer/wipes to clean it. I found that pretty amazing.
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To be clear: I totally believe you’ve had a great experience.

Tesla, like Lucid, is not at all immune to simultaneous “it works great on my car” and “it sucks on mine” experiences.
 
LVAGT said:
what tesla and fsd software do you currently own? go try the newest version before turning into gaskiller lol. the shear hatred people have on musk is crazy to me. I don't like him either, but I'm not going out of my way just to hate on him.
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Two things can be true at once. Please don’t dismiss experiences with ad hominems like this.
 
borski said:
This has simply not been my experience in recent Teslas with FSD.

At least around me, when not on the highway, it still very much sucks and makes mistakes somewhat regularly.

As a comparison, I’ve personally never seen a Waymo make a mistake. But I also fully believe it can and does happen, though I suspect at a much lower rate than FSD (albeit, the statistics agree with that too)
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Well then, assuming you were running a car with hardware 4 and the latest software, our experiences couldn’t be more different. It’s really odd that a couple of people here, non owners, relate experiences that are so vastly different than the average owners I read and actually know. Even in our community we have something like 6 Tesla owners, half of which use FSD. That half raves about it like I do.

As far as making mistakes, I’m sure they all do…and guess what, humans make more mistakes. Of course I’m sure most here will proclaim they are far better drivers than any Tesla FSD system. I would expect nothing less. ;)
 
borski said:
To be clear: I totally believe you’ve had a great experience.

Tesla, like Lucid, is not at all immune to simultaneous “it works great on my car” and “it sucks on mine” experiences.
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I agree, but if there’s a 1/2 ounce of honesty in some that are posting here, I would not say this is the most objective crowd to get opinions on anything Tesla, Musk or FSD.

As I said, I experienced FSD in an earlier MS and that most certainly did suck.
The newest hardware together with the latest FSD software, couldn’t be more different. It is thus far flawless for me and a feature I never realized I needed this much…yes, even if you enjoy driving yourself. I hope Lucid gets it soon and it’s at the same level I’m experiencing, so that the naysayers here can see what I’m talking about.
 
Well it looks like my last post was deleted. Oh well. I was simply going to add a recent review from savagegeese for those who are curious about a respected reviewer’s first Tesla review, paying particular attention to his FSD opinions that largely reflect what I’ve said:
 
Lucken said:
Well it looks like my last post was deleted. Oh well. I was simply going to add a recent review from savagegeese for those who are curious about a respected reviewer’s first Tesla review, paying particular attention to his FSD opinions that largely reflect what I’ve said:
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I used it, and I will never trust it without redundancy. A few hour drive by a YouTuber means nothing to me. The fact the Tesla redacts crash data unlike other companies, says a lot about their ethics. And they won’t take liability, YOU DO!

Would you be comfortable sending your kids alone in a Tesla Robotaxi car or Waymo ? People won’t trust their kids lives in a Musk product. They trust Waymo more.
 
gaskiller said:
I used it, and I will never trust it without redundancy. A few hour drive by a YouTuber means nothing to me. The fact the Tesla redacts crash data unlike other companies, says a lot about their ethics. And they won’t take liability, YOU DO!

Would you be comfortable sending your kids alone in a Tesla Robotaxi car or Waymo ? People won’t trust their kids lives in a Musk product. They trust Waymo more.
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Yes, you’re right. I just sold my Tesla. I trust your judgment and sweeping generalizations far more than my own experience or some guy who is one of the most respected car reviewers in the business. OY! Exhausting.
 
Lucken said:
As far as making mistakes, I’m sure they all do…and guess what, humans make more mistakes. Of course I’m sure most here will proclaim they are far better drivers than any Tesla FSD system. I would expect nothing less. ;)
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"Better driver" probably has 5 different definitions if you ask 5 different people what it means. But from a simple crash frequency perspective, it's really not possible for an individual to evaluate whether FSD is as good as a human driver. That's because humans have a fatal crash for every ~85 million miles driven, and a police reported crash for roughly ~500,000 miles driven. That's too many miles for any individual driver to have a large enough sample size to judge against.

Really you need fleet level data. Which Tesla has, but they've been unwilling to release it in a way that allows outsiders to judge how safe FSD is. And of course they've continued to tell people that the system requires supervision. And they've had real challenges deploying anything more than a token number of robotaxis. It could well be that FSD is working flawlessly in some locations, and much less well in others, and that may explain the different experiences people are reporting.

Personally, I see the appeal of a system that doesn't need supervision, so i can have it take me home when I've had a few drinks, or am too sleepy to safely drive. Or just wanting to relax and read a book on a long trip. But for a fancy ADAS that requires my constant unwavering attention, I think it's too expensive. And I do worry about how commonly I hear people explaining that they don't bother to supervise it anymore.
 
TahoeMichael said:
"Better driver" probably has 5 different definitions if you ask 5 different people what it means. But from a simple crash frequency perspective, it's really not possible for an individual to evaluate whether FSD is as good as a human driver. That's because humans have a fatal crash for every ~85 million miles driven, and a police reported crash for roughly ~500,000 miles driven. That's too many miles for any individual driver to have a large enough sample size to judge against.

Really you need fleet level data. Which Tesla has, but they've been unwilling to release it in a way that allows outsiders to judge how safe FSD is. And of course they've continued to tell people that the system requires supervision. And they've had real challenges deploying anything more than a token number of robotaxis. It could well be that FSD is working flawlessly in some locations, and much less well in others, and that may explain the different experiences people are reporting.

Personally, I see the appeal of a system that doesn't need supervision, so i can have it take me home when I've had a few drinks, or am too sleepy to safely drive. Or just wanting to relax and read a book on a long trip. But for a fancy ADAS that requires my constant unwavering attention, I think it's too expensive. And I do worry about how commonly I hear people explaining that they don't bother to supervise it anymore.
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And "crashes" aren't the only measure of better driving. For instance, I like to steer around potholes and dips and bumps where possible, not just drive right through them like the computer does because it's only looking at the lines and large objects. If I'm driving on snow I'll choose the best path that may or may not be centered in the lane. When driving on wet roads or mostly dry roads with some icy patches, I'll slow down appropriately. When there's pedestrians that look like they may jump out, or someone that just parked on the side of the road that might open their driver door in the next few seconds, I'll anticipate that and adjust rather than only acting AFTER it happens. I know how to handle construction zones that deviate from the lines. I know how to look for and recognize someone I'm picking up. Etc etc etc.

That doesn't mean autonomy doesn't do a lot of things really well, but there's a reason it still requires human supervision in the vast majority of vehicles.

Comparing crash data is apples-to-oranges. Autonomy is usually only used in favorable conditions, dominated by easy highway driving. That greatly skews the stats. The driver tends to take over when it gets trickier. So most crashes in tougher conditions count against human driving, not autonomy.
 
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