Owners are waiting, please do the right thing!

Northpointe said:

There's a whole genre

Click to expand...

Agreed, but it doesn't mean that these guys can't do something good as a side effect. Rich claims that his 'content creation' had a positive impact on repair-ability of Teslas, for example. Perhaps he overstates that. IIRC, Rich met with a prominent 'right-to-repair" activist Lous Rossmann who is definitely not 'just making content'. In other words, people could be both 'just making content and farming clicks' and also have some opinions and practice some activism. Even if specific manufacturer doesn't do anything different in response to this kind of 'content', at least it helps us consumers to understand where each manufacturer is so we can make more educated purchasing decisions in the future.

Everybody is different, but for me personally, the idea that I'm not allowed to do something with my property is borderline offensive. Sure, it may be difficult, it may require special knowledge and special tools and despite my best efforts, the results may not be pretty or practical. I get that.
But my entire life I was always pushing myself to acquire more skills and to do more and I don't see any reason to stop.
The idea that some corporate exec somewhere decides that either a) My car is not my property or b) I'm too dumb to work on my own car is insulting.
I've had a 30+ year engineering career doing exactly the types of things that I was told were impossible to do. That doesn't mean that working on my Lucid is a great idea. But that is and always will be my personal decision to make.
I suspect that I'm not alone feeling this way and that is exactly why 'edutainment' content creators like Rich Rebuilds and Matt Armstrong are so popular.

hangup said:

Agreed, but it doesn't mean that these guys can't do something good as a side effect. Rich claims that his 'content creation' had a positive impact on repair-ability of Teslas, for example. Perhaps he overstates that. IIRC, Rich met with a prominent 'right-to-repair" activist Lous Rossmann who is definitely not 'just making content'. In other words, people could be both 'just making content and farming clicks' and also have some opinions and practice some activism. Even if specific manufacturer doesn't do anything different in response to this kind of 'content', at least it helps us consumers to understand where each manufacturer is so we can make more educated purchasing decisions in the future.

Everybody is different, but for me personally, the idea that I'm not allowed to do something with my property is borderline offensive. Sure, it may be difficult, it may require special knowledge and special tools and despite my best efforts, the results may not be pretty or practical. I get that.
But my entire life I was always pushing myself to acquire more skills and to do more and I don't see any reason to stop.
The idea that some corporate exec somewhere decides that either a) My car is not my property or b) I'm too dumb to work on my own car is insulting.
I've had a 30+ year engineering career doing exactly the types of things that I was told were impossible to do. That doesn't mean that working on my Lucid is a great idea. But that is and always will be my personal decision to make.
I suspect that I'm not alone feeling this way and that is exactly why 'edutainment' content creators like Rich Rebuilds and Matt Armstrong are so popular.

Click to expand...

So what’s the delivery date for those special tools? And when do you graduate from Lucid tech school? And lastly, please be closer to the twin cities than to Chicago.
Thanks in advance

hangup said:

Agreed, but it doesn't mean that these guys can't do something good as a side effect. Rich claims that his 'content creation' had a positive impact on repair-ability of Teslas, for example. Perhaps he overstates that. IIRC, Rich met with a prominent 'right-to-repair" activist Lous Rossmann who is definitely not 'just making content'. In other words, people could be both 'just making content and farming clicks' and also have some opinions and practice some activism. Even if specific manufacturer doesn't do anything different in response to this kind of 'content', at least it helps us consumers to understand where each manufacturer is so we can make more educated purchasing decisions in the future.

Everybody is different, but for me personally, the idea that I'm not allowed to do something with my property is borderline offensive. Sure, it may be difficult, it may require special knowledge and special tools and despite my best efforts, the results may not be pretty or practical. I get that.
But my entire life I was always pushing myself to acquire more skills and to do more and I don't see any reason to stop.
The idea that some corporate exec somewhere decides that either a) My car is not my property or b) I'm too dumb to work on my own car is insulting.
I've had a 30+ year engineering career doing exactly the types of things that I was told were impossible to do. That doesn't mean that working on my Lucid is a great idea. But that is and always will be my personal decision to make.
I suspect that I'm not alone feeling this way and that is exactly why 'edutainment' content creators like Rich Rebuilds and Matt Armstrong are so popular.

Click to expand...

Mmmm, you want to fix your own property, where do you start. TV’s, Fridge, Cell phone?

You also need to realistic. These cars are complex. It’s not a regular ICE car. Lucid does not need to invest now in such projects right now. Let them establish first! They need to cut costs.

Hope they do but maybe 5-10 years down the line.

gaskiller said:

Mmmm, you want to fix your own property, where do you start. TV’s, Fridge, Cell phone?

You also need to realistic. These cars are complex. It’s not a regular ICE car. Lucid does not need to invest now in such projects right now. Let them establish first! They need to cut costs.

Hope they do but maybe 5-10 years down the line.

Click to expand...

haha, just had a fridge go out last week due to a storm. had to fix it right away to avoid some nice stakes to go bad.... and showing my better half that I still know where the fridge is can also be beneficial
I fixed it quickly on the spot first, then properly a couple of days later when the correct OEM part has arrived.

"DIY or not" is always a cost/benefit analysis for me.
If I have the time and interest in how something works, I'll do it more often than not, but it's not a religion for me, I buy stuff all the time and pay people to work on stuff also. As I get older (and I'm now semi-retired) I can generally take on more interesting and challenging projects. I have also accumulated a fair amount of specialty tools by now.

TVs? yes, sometimes I fixed those in the past, they don't break often in my household.
Cell phones? Yes, occasionally, but again, they don't go bad very often in my household, I don't have young kids
For cellphones it is less about actually repairing them and more about buying the right product for me. For example, I refuse to buy phones that require a hot plate to replace a battery. Yes, I do have a hot plate and yes I can do it, but I just don't want to, so I buy thicker and less 'sexy' phones but I know I can fly with them without them blowing up in my pocket and when I need to replace a battery it takes me 1 minute to do so.

Cars? Yes, occasionally. One example:
My other car is the BMW i3. Thankfully, it has been reliable so far and only needed to be worked on once so far. I seriously considered bringing it to a dealer, but here is the thing.... a) it was REX that needed a sensor replaced and I barely ever use REX so dropping half of the street value of this car to repair something I don't really need seemed wrong; b) dealer procedure called for the entire engine assembly to be taken out, so 11.5hrs of dealership labor charges for a $40 part (if you buy OEM, cheaper options available of course). So I ended up doing it myself and I found a way to do it correctly without taking out the engine assembly. So the cost to me was an OEM part for 40 bucks and I learned a few things along the way. I later found a video on YT where Rich did the same repair, but he drilled a hole in the cabronfiber body of the car, which wasn't necessary, so yes, I did a much better job ))

Lucid doesn't need any work for now, but I'm afraid it is only a matter of time.
I hear Lucids are not too bad to work on. Rich was impressed

Richard Silva said:

And yes, I’m assuming a certified shop looked at, put it into service mode, gave some crazy number to fix it, owner probably didn’t agree with it and said I’ll take my car back and get it fixed somewhere else. So the certified shop probably left it in service mode as an FU to the customer. The real problem is that a bumper with sensors technically needs recalibration after putting a just bumper on…”technically”…however if everything is lined up properly and the same sensors are used from the original bumper and just swapped out they should read the same.

Click to expand...

So I have this very case. Hail damage to body, driver mirror, and a crack in the rear roof panel. The driver mirror was replaced, but the insurer eventually agreed to total the car. 25 Air Touring with 7k miles. I bought it for $27k and it arrived in Service Mode. Drives just like my 23AT. Lucid will not authorize Mobile Service until a Lucid approved body shop replaces the rear roof panel. Further, the car is permanently banned from app access. Granted that's not much of a loss. Fortunately my local shop just completed Lucid certification.

hangup said:

Everybody is different, but for me personally, the idea that I'm not allowed to do something with my property is borderline offensive. Sure, it may be difficult, it may require special knowledge and special tools and despite my best efforts, the results may not be pretty or practical. I get that.

Click to expand...

And if it involves the ADAS system, regen brakes, or a whole host of other complex safety systems the results may be deadly.

The issue for Lucid is foreseeability. Because your bad result is their lawsuit. And if they enable the repair of their vehicles by untrained individuals who lack the knowledge, skills, and tools necessary it is foreseeable that people (you or others) may be seriously injured or killed.

Northpointe said:

And if it involves the ADAS system, regen brakes, or a whole host of other complex safety systems the results may be deadly.

The issue for Lucid is foreseeability. Because your bad result is their lawsuit. And if they enable the repair of their vehicles by untrained individuals who lack the knowledge, skills, and tools necessary it is foreseeable that people (you or others) may be seriously injured or killed.

Click to expand...

How is your personal experience with that ADAS system btw? Mine has been mixed. At one point, someone stopped on the freeway in front of me. There was plenty of space, I was able to stop too. Once the vehicle in front of me started moving and I attempted to move, Lucid started slamming on the breaks repeatedly. I had to wait 2 or 3 seconds before i could move. Did not give me the warm and fuzzy.... never happened again though. When I park the air pure in my garage, I always have to shut it off otherwise it slams on the breaks all the time. The fit isn't particularly tight either.

Yes, when you ship a product, you risk lawsuits. Even if you don't ship anything and don't do anything, you risk to be sued, so long as you have something of value.
Is Lucid liable for something a DIYer does? No. Are they liable for something a 3rd party garage does? No. Is there a risk someone might claim so in a lawsuit? Absolutely.
Is there risk that someone who is in fact certified and trained bodges a repair? Yes. Is there a risk that the car may have a defect before it is ever repaired? Also yes.

I happen to live in a state where they decided that . . . car inspections are not required!. People around here mostly drive nice cars, but there are some that definitely should not be on the road. Regulations? Never heard of them. Safety concerns? nope. Pollution? HELL YES, They'd be driving coal powered if they could.

As far as I know, it's totally legal for anyone in the US to work on their brakes. In many areas it is illegal to work on plumbing in your own house or to be a DYI electrician. But to work on breaks on your car is totally cool! But then... ADAS, which is often absent completely or disabled partially; and when it's on... doesn't even work correctly some of the time... is a no-no?

Death? I'm afraid that's inevitable. Does allowing people to fix their cars increases that possibility? Yes, but so does allowing them to drive, perhaps much more so actually.
Also increases the possibility of death... continuing to drive on cars that need service which one either can't afford or can't get.
Should we all be driven around in one year old cars by professional drives because that would be safer for everybody? Hopefully, eventually, AI? Maybe, but perhaps a mandatory periodic safety inspection that covers the breaks would be a good start? Actually no, that's too hard already, apparently.

I think your point (if I understand it correctly) is that the issues are safety-driven and that safety regulation come not from the company itself, but from some government.
But if that was the case, we would have a pretty uniform picture across car manufacturers. Their policies on selling parts, allowing 3rd party repairs, etc.... would be pretty much the same across the board, no?
I believe that's not the case. There are some manufacturers that are known to be very difficult to work with while others are OK, no?

Manufacturers of just about everything lobby against 'right to repair'. Today 'we know' that AI models that are opensource are 'not safe' and of course tractors used by our farmers.... must be remotely brick-able in order to 'remain safe'. The car industry is not unique here.

Pet peeve rant here. I wish people would use a pertinent title for threads that mention the actual topic. It wouldn't be that hard to just type "Right to Repair" as the subject line for this one. And it's just one of dozens of examples of clickbait titles.

@hangup I don’t have any issue with your views and agree with them. My only disappointment is something you come so close on but just don’t get right:

You eat steaks, not stakes.
You slow your car down with brakes, not breaks.

Leftlane said:

@hangup I don’t have any issue with your views and agree with them. My only disappointment is something you come so close on but just don’t get right:

You eat steaks, not stakes.
You slow your car down with brakes, not breaks.

Click to expand...

you got me, English is not one of my strengths

All in good fun. The only thing my English major seems to be good for is being pedantic.