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Gravity efficiency is low for me

dbsb3233 said:
Where is that from? Those are significantly lower than EPA range, although probably a lot more realistic.
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Real world owner fleet data from LucidTracker+ subscribers.
 
dbsb3233 said:
Where is that from? Those are significantly lower than EPA range, although probably a lot more realistic.
Click to expand...
lucidtracker.app

LucidTracker

LucidTracker is a companion app for Lucid Motors owners. It automatically tracks your trips, charge sessions, battery health, and OTA software rollouts. LucidTracker+ adds 1-minute polling, live GPS trip tracking, and detailed charge session analytics.
lucidtracker.app lucidtracker.app

I assume he's just pulling an average from everyone on the site on the backend as that's not a table visible to users. Actually it is, I just hadn't noticed that page before!

(Edit: I typed this earlier and hit save but the site was unresponsive and @HC_79 confirmed in the meantime)
 
RandomDesign said:
lucidtracker.app

LucidTracker

LucidTracker is a companion app for Lucid Motors owners. It automatically tracks your trips, charge sessions, battery health, and OTA software rollouts. LucidTracker+ adds 1-minute polling, live GPS trip tracking, and detailed charge session analytics.
lucidtracker.app lucidtracker.app

I assume he's just pulling an average from everyone on the site on the backend as that's not a table visible to users. Actually it is, I just hadn't noticed that page before!

(Edit: I typed this earlier and hit save but the site was unresponsive and @HC_79 confirmed in the meantime)
Click to expand...
It was gated to subscribers only so I could keep an eye on the data to make sure it was showing correctly. They're now public and can be viewed by anyone

lucidtracker.app

pulsefleetleaderboard | Lucid Tracker

Lucid Tracker manages 5 data types including car appearances. Helps you organize, track, and share your work in 1 place for teams and solo users.
lucidtracker.app lucidtracker.app
 
I feel like my mileage is an outlier. For the first 2000 miles, I struggled to get to 3.0 mi/kWh. Since then, I have been getting extraordinarily good mileage. Today is the first time I reached 3.66 mi/kWh for my dynamic range. I have been logging my mileage for almost the past 3500 miles. Those miles include multiple trip between central and south Florida via the turnpike, and a trip from Orlando to Atlanta and back. If I just take the Atlanta trip, my Gravity GT averaged just above 3.2 mi/kWh on the highway.
 

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Kinda of an obvious question, but we're assuming the trip meter is the accurate number and taking the Dynamic number with a grain of salt, right?

I know mine are often very different.
 
BS8899 said:
I presume this is the aggregation of the data from @HC_79 from the Lucid (Air and Gravity) owners.

As evident from this data, the realizable efficiencies (hence range) driving on US highways/freeways are quite a bit lower than Lucid's claims (based on 5-cycle EPA, ang. 48mph).
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You cannot deduce that from this data. You do not know that anyone was driving and trying to be efficient. For all you or I know, everyone in that data is constantly driving in Sprint.

It’s interesting that the DEs are at the bottom; I bet they’re also driven harder than the other vehicles.
 
borski said:
You cannot deduce that from this data. You do not know that anyone was driving and trying to be efficient. For all you or I know, everyone in that data is constantly driving in Sprint.

It’s interesting that the DEs are at the bottom; I bet they’re also driven harder than the other vehicles.
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It’s also an average across the vehicles being tracked. We can see that people have achieved higher. I believe this topic has been done to death but as repeated multiple times across multiple threads, EPA is achievable or near achievable in the right conditions and if you’re not a lead foot!

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1783227788381.webp
 
HC_79 said:
It’s also an average across the vehicles being tracked. We can see that people have achieved higher. I believe this topic has been done to death but as repeated multiple times across multiple threads, EPA is achievable or near achievable in the right conditions and if you’re not a lead foot!

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For sure; I didn’t mean to imply it isn’t a spectrum or an average. I only meant that you cannot deduce anything from it in terms of “realistic achievable range” because those people did not drive under the same conditions, or with the same goals.

Even something as simple as how many of the owners have a commute would make a significant difference, for example.
 
Adding my 2 cents. I have my Lucid Air Touring for 1.5 years now. The first week I drove my car I was lucky if I got 3mi/kwh. Lots of things happened since then. Software updates is one, car learning how I drive is two. But really, the biggest thing for me is that driving an EV like an ice car will give you terrible efficiency. Because we are used to gasing the pedal harder which is entirely unnecessary in an EV. Thats more true of backing off on the brakes. You need to learn to brake without letting go too much. If may seem like a minor and weird thing but being a data nerd and software engineer I timed everything and I collected data on every way I drove for months. I would go out and intentionally drive specific ways each day on the same route to see what my range would look like and then experimented based on that. I currently can easily drive with 3.9-4 mi/kwh. A lot of that is with how I accelerate and regen brake. I actually had to strengthen my calfs and ankles for this because holding my foot and just easing into the acceleration and especially the braking was tiring. But after about a week of that I suddenly started getting much better range. If the needle on your car is contantly swinging between regen and acceleration you're going to be inefficient. First, learn to hold the acceleration between 12 oclock position and no further than 2. Eventually, you'll learn to get a feel of not over accelerating needlessly and recognize when your car is coasting and you then hold your car around 10-11 position.
Now I am a very aggressive driver raised in NYC and I drive every bit like one. Its normal to me but all of my friends in CA thinks I'm crazy. I had to fight all those urges to restructure my driving. I still drive like a maniac (apparently I'm told that constantly) but its very much a controlled aggression.
 
I’m getting about 2.82 on my Gravity GT over the last 5000 miles and felt pretty good about myself. Dynamic range is running 2.75-3.05 depending on the day. Now you guys getting high 3s are bumming me out
 
HC_79 said:
It’s also an average across the vehicles being tracked. We can see that people have achieved higher. I believe this topic has been done to death but as repeated multiple times across multiple threads, EPA is achievable or near achievable in the right conditions and if you’re not a lead foot!

View attachment 39774

View attachment 39775
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Technically true. At like 35 MPH avg in perfect conditions. Which is apt for maybe Uber drivers and real estate agents. For the other 98% of the population that does their 300 mile drives on the highway rather than around city streets, The EPA range number is bogus.

EPA (or a different govt agency) really needs to come up with a pertinent range methodology for EVs, not this leftover ICE methodology that's deceptively misleading for EVs.

The data in that table posted by owners is surely far more accurate for real world use than the EPA number, even without knowing if it was over-represented by lead footers. MPK for the 450 mile trim / 123 kWh battery pack is 3.65. (3.85 is assuming a 117 usable battery.) Maybe 2% drivers are getting anything remotely close to that in the long run, even around town.

That's not Lucid's fault, of course. It's the EPAs for using methodology that just doesn't apply, that routinely exaggerates real-world range.
 
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dbsb3233 said:
Technically true. At like 35 MPH avg in perfect conditions. Which is apt for maybe Uber drivers and real estate agents. For the other 98% of the population that does their 300 mile drives on the highway rather than around city streets, it's bogus.

EPA (or a different govt agency) really needs to come up with a pertinent range methodology for EVs, not this leftover ICE methodology that's deceptively misleading for EVs.
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At the risk of stating the obvious:

> to the extent Lucid uses a different EPA test (5 cycle) to rate their vehicles, the relative efficiency/range rank order of Lucid's own vehicles (Gravity/Air, DE/AGT/T/P) might be consistent within its own family of products.
BUT
> when you compared Lucid's claimed efficiencies against different EVs (e.g., Rivian, BMW, Porsche, MB, etc.) that were tested/rated on a different EPA methodology (2-cycle), such comparisons are faulty and not calibrated.

That said, I DO think Lucid vehicles are efficient. But, under actual usage and typical US driving conditions (city/hwy), if measured with the same metrics, Lucid's efficiency advantage over its close competitors is probably in the single digit percentage, not the20-30% better as might be interpreted.
 
2.82 mi/kwhr lifetime in Midwest with 20/21 wheels. Once it warmed up I am getting 3.3 mi/kwhr mixed driving between city and highway about 70-77 mph. Last full charge was 390 miles for 117.kwhr.
 
valentino said:
Adding my 2 cents. I have my Lucid Air Touring for 1.5 years now. The first week I drove my car I was lucky if I got 3mi/kwh. Lots of things happened since then. Software updates is one, car learning how I drive is two. But really, the biggest thing for me is that driving an EV like an ice car will give you terrible efficiency. Because we are used to gasing the pedal harder which is entirely unnecessary in an EV. Thats more true of backing off on the brakes. You need to learn to brake without letting go too much. If may seem like a minor and weird thing but being a data nerd and software engineer I timed everything and I collected data on every way I drove for months. I would go out and intentionally drive specific ways each day on the same route to see what my range would look like and then experimented based on that. I currently can easily drive with 3.9-4 mi/kwh. A lot of that is with how I accelerate and regen brake. I actually had to strengthen my calfs and ankles for this because holding my foot and just easing into the acceleration and especially the braking was tiring. But after about a week of that I suddenly started getting much better range. If the needle on your car is contantly swinging between regen and acceleration you're going to be inefficient. First, learn to hold the acceleration between 12 oclock position and no further than 2. Eventually, you'll learn to get a feel of not over accelerating needlessly and recognize when your car is coasting and you then hold your car around 10-11 position.
Now I am a very aggressive driver raised in NYC and I drive every bit like one. Its normal to me but all of my friends in CA thinks I'm crazy. I had to fight all those urges to restructure my driving. I still drive like a maniac (apparently I'm told that constantly) but its very much a controlled aggression.
Click to expand...
Also not to pile on the obvious; But if you do not use one-pedal drive with high regen ALL the time you have 0% chance of getting any good efficiency.
 
BS8899 said:
At the risk of stating the obvious:

> to the extent Lucid uses a different EPA test (5 cycle) to rate their vehicles, the relative efficiency/range rank order of Lucid's own vehicles (Gravity/Air, DE/AGT/T/P) might be consistent within its own family of products.
BUT
> when you compared Lucid's claimed efficiencies against different EVs (e.g., Rivian, BMW, Porsche, MB, etc.) that were tested/rated on a different EPA methodology (2-cycle), such comparisons are faulty and not calibrated.

That said, I DO think Lucid vehicles are efficient. But, under actual usage and typical US driving conditions (city/hwy), if measured with the same metrics, Lucid's efficiency advantage over its close competitors is probably in the single digit percentage, not the20-30% better as might be interpreted.
Click to expand...
It's so hard to compare against other models because they all offer different trade-offs on size, space, height, comfort, cargo, etc. The Gravity doesn't really have a counterpart to compare against. For this much interior space, I do expect it to cost some on efficiency. Overall I think the Gravity does pretty well.

To me it's the EPA range that's out of whack, not how well the Gravity performs. This would more fairly be rated at 400 EPA than 450 (talking about the small wheel 2-row trim). That would still be amazing range for an EV with this much interior space, but be a more realistic city range.

My real complaint remains the EPA ratings. Very few EV drivers care about city range, around home, where most charge overnight and rarely go over 100 miles per day. Where the VAST majority of us care about range is road trips. That's long distance highway driving. That's what the headline range number should represent. 0-100% range at 75 MPH.
 
illopp00 said:
Also not to pile on the obvious; But if you do not use one-pedal drive with high regen ALL the time you have 0% chance of getting any good efficiency.
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Sort of. If you have regen OFF, yes, you'll never get close because you're only using friction brakes to slow down and not recapturing any energy. Unlike most EVs, Lucid chose not to apply regen with the brake pedal.

But 1PD (HOLD vs CREEP) and HIGH vs STANDARD regen should make almost no difference. HIGH regen won't recapture more energy than STANDARD, it should nearly always recapture the same amount. The only way it would capture more energy is if you max out regen and have to start adding friction braking to it. But that would be a really harsh stop. Normally both regen settings (since STANDARD is already very strong itself) offer more than enough regen slowing for normal driving. They're rarely ever max'd out to the point of having to add friction brakes.

Until you get down to below 5 MPH to do the final stop, that is. Friction brakes are always needed to do the last few MPH and final stop. Even in 1PD (the car just does it for you automatically). So there really shouldn't be any difference in energy recapture, except for the rare times you have to do a really hard slowdown beyond the max of the already-strong STANDARD regen. .

That's my understanding of how it works, anyway.
 
valentino said:
Adding my 2 cents. I have my Lucid Air Touring for 1.5 years now. The first week I drove my car I was lucky if I got 3mi/kwh. Lots of things happened since then. Software updates is one, car learning how I drive is two. But really, the biggest thing for me is that driving an EV like an ice car will give you terrible efficiency. Because we are used to gasing the pedal harder which is entirely unnecessary in an EV. Thats more true of backing off on the brakes. You need to learn to brake without letting go too much. If may seem like a minor and weird thing but being a data nerd and software engineer I timed everything and I collected data on every way I drove for months. I would go out and intentionally drive specific ways each day on the same route to see what my range would look like and then experimented based on that. I currently can easily drive with 3.9-4 mi/kwh. A lot of that is with how I accelerate and regen brake. I actually had to strengthen my calfs and ankles for this because holding my foot and just easing into the acceleration and especially the braking was tiring. But after about a week of that I suddenly started getting much better range. If the needle on your car is contantly swinging between regen and acceleration you're going to be inefficient. First, learn to hold the acceleration between 12 oclock position and no further than 2. Eventually, you'll learn to get a feel of not over accelerating needlessly and recognize when your car is coasting and you then hold your car around 10-11 position.
Now I am a very aggressive driver raised in NYC and I drive every bit like one. Its normal to me but all of my friends in CA thinks I'm crazy. I had to fight all those urges to restructure my driving. I still drive like a maniac (apparently I'm told that constantly) but its very much a controlled aggression.
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Thank you for sharing this, very insightful.
Just to make sure I understand it... you do this in High Regen and without using the brakes much, right?
 
I’ve read this entire thread and I don’t want to go wildly off-topic but just to almost parenthetically point out that there seems to be a big difference between the Gravity and the Air. A little more than a month ago, I took an Air Touring (loaner) from San Jose to LA and back — down 101 and came home on the coast highway. Average for the entire 800 mile trip was 4.01 m/kwh. Adaptive cruise control most of the way heading south and one pedal driving on the way north. Regen was on high the whole time. Probably touched the brakes no more than five or 10 times on the whole trip. While in LA, all of our destinations were within walking distance of the hotel so there was no city driving other than getting to and from the hotel.
 
mwscan said:
I’ve read this entire thread and I don’t want to go wildly off-topic but just to almost parenthetically point out that there seems to be a big difference between the Gravity and the Air. A little more than a month ago, I took an Air Touring (loaner) from San Jose to LA and back — down 101 and came home on the coast highway. Average for the entire 800 mile trip was 4.01 m/kwh. Adaptive cruise control most of the way heading south and one pedal driving on the way north. Regen was on high the whole time. Probably touched the brakes no more than five or 10 times on the whole trip. While in LA, all of our destinations were within walking distance of the hotel so there was no city driving other than getting to and from the hotel.
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And their should be a big difference, yes. Big difference in size, weight, and aerodynamics. The Gravity has more weight to push forward and more air to cut through.

lucid-home-og.webp
 
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