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Lucid Cosmos Specifications

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patriots328

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Hi Everyone,

I was trying to see if we can deduce some
of the Cosmos specifications from Lucid Investor day presentation and how it would be positioned against competitors in this segment.

Power Output: 558hp (based on Zeus spec of weight (74kg)). Lucid indicated that Atlas is 23% lighter and has a power to weight ratio of 4.9, this brings each motors out to 279hp. This would probably be a higher trim variant with dual PM motors and lower spec variant having front induction motors with lower overall output.

Range and Battery size: This is hard to estimate and would need to make some assumptions. If Lucid wants to maintain longest range in the segment, they would need to exceed the BMW iX3 (estimated 400 EPA). To hit this number the Cosmos needs to have at least 93 KwH pack (with lower end of efficiency of 4.3mi/kwh) while also maintaining significant cost advantage over BMW. It would’ve interesting to see if Lucid will continue different pack sizes like previous models or just do same size pack irrespective of trim; similar to Model Y and Rivian R2). If they end up having smaller battery size for lower spec models then I would think they would end up with 75-80 KwH pack, which would provide Lucid a 25-30 miles advantage over both those models (most efficient models).

Charging Speed: Lucid states over 200 miles in 14 min. I think they purposefully being vague here. Emad in the Q&A said that it will have best in class 10-80% charging time. If that’s true then 14min charging should result in well over 200miles and this just seems to be a conservative lower limit. For comparison, BMW iX3 has 21min 10-80 and Volvo EX60 has 18/19 min 10-80 depending on the trim. With the assumed battery size of 80kwh or 93kwh and with 18min charging from 10 to 80% should add about 243 mi to 280 mi respectively.

What do you think of above specs? Looking forward to their official reveal soon. I hope they blow everyone’s mind with great specs and a compelling price to match Model Y and R2.
 
I’d love to see the reliability of Tesla and the design and performance of Lucid. 👌

I want to see what it looks like too, Lucid has a very interesting design language, especially their interior materials.
 
There's a video posted with someone from Lucid saying the Atlas motors have a power output of 315 HP.

Their stated charging speed of 200 miles in 14 minutes along with what visually seems to be a small battery pack has me nervous that their range will be in the low 300s.
 
The_Don said:
There's a video posted with someone from Lucid saying the Atlas motors have a power output of 315 HP.

Their stated charging speed of 200 miles in 14 minutes along with what visually seems to be a small battery pack has me nervous that their range will be in the low 300s.
Click to expand...

300-330 range is the standard for the mid-size category and many do not even reach that (Ioniq 5 and Toyota, etc)
 
BrianBigNFun said:
300-330 range is the standard for the mid-size category and many do not even reach that (Ioniq 5 and Toyota, etc)
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Yup, hopefully there are three trims, each based on motor setup: 900 HP (tri-motor sapphire), 600 HP (dual-motor) and 315 HP (rear motor)
 
I feel like it's going to come in above R2 and Model Y and under EX60 and IX3 with lower price than the Europeans which is consistent with their current pricing and market position.
 
I enjoy reading and speculating about all this stuff, which is why I'll be following this thread.

But I'm also worried that it feels like the same trajectory we Lucid hangers-on all followed with the buildup to the Air and the Gravity releases: months (or even years) of growing excitement about the promise of the cars followed by real cars that wouldn't unlock, screens that froze, features that exhibited bizarre behavior . . . or no behavior at all.

The powertrain engineers, the chassis engineers, and the interior designers all learned significant lessons from the Air that they applied to make the Gravity an even more advanced and remarkable vehicle than the Air. But the software engineers and management didn't learn a damn thing and put a second model on the market that furthered the company's growing reputation as a walking zombie when it comes to software.

I hope Lucid realizes that if they roll mass-market product out the door with the same software shit shows that accompanied the Air and Gravity rollouts this will all be moot within a year.
 
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Cosmos/Earth/Unnamed midsize models has been announced to be using 2x Nvidia Thor that can each do 1,000 TOPS. Nvidia doesn't make it clear if doubling the chips is a straight multiplication or if there's some minor loss due to the need to transfer data between each individual chip. (Anyone remember SLI?)

Comparisons:

Consumer spec Gravities use 2x Nvidia Orin chips, each with 264 TOPS (trillions of operations per second, aka how powerful the chips are). No idea what the Nuro/Uber versions run but they've made it clear it's more powerful.

Tesla HW4 (current gen) can do 720 TOPS and HW5 is expected to do 2,000 - 2,500 TOPS. Rivian's Autonomy hardware coming to later versions (with LIDAR) of the R2 will do 1,600 TOPS. But initial versions of the R2 will only have 200 TOPS.

This is why Lucid didn't mention the Gravity getting L3/4 autonomy and why the R2 needs that new hardware coming later this year.

Volvo EX60 is using one Nvidia Orin

BMW iX3 is using some version of Snapdragon Drive which can have 200-700 TOPS

If you're looking for some kind of point to point self driving (monitored or not), and you use Tesla HW4 as the baseline compute requirement, then it's pretty clear what cars will be able to, eventually, do it.
 
On side note Audi teased images of A2. The silhouette of rear end kind of looks similar to that of Cosmos (cab forward proportion, squished rear window and sloping roof).


Interestingly, If I am not mistaken; Derek Jenkins worked on the original A2.

Kyle Connor made comparisons to Prius and his mate thought it was it looked more like a Aston Martin Zagato. I hope it turns out more Zagato than Prius.
 
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hmp10 said:
I hope Lucid realizes that if they roll mass-market product out the door with the same software shit shows that accompanied the Air and Gravity rollouts this will all be moot within a year.
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They do.
 
One thing I was listening for but didn't hear was what voltage they were using for communications - 12v or 48v. I thought Cory would mention it when discussing the reduced architecture, but nada.
 
FurryOne said:
One thing I was listening for but didn't hear was what voltage they were using for communications - 12v or 48v. I thought Cory would mention it when discussing the reduced architecture, but nada.
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I remember either Eric Bach or Peter discussing about benefits of doing 48v at the launch of Gravity. Apparently, there are very few subsystems that utilize or need 48v compared to 12v. In fact would be it would have been inefficient to move the entire architecture to 48v and then downstate to 12v for systems that needed it. It seemed like there isn’t that much gain.

But again, I think part of it must have been that the supply chain is still mostly 12v and Lucid being a small player couldn’t sway the needle for suppliers to make 48v components.
 
patriots328 said:
I remember either Eric Bach or Peter discussing about benefits of doing 48v at the launch of Gravity. Apparently, there are very few subsystems that utilize or need 48v compared to 12v. In fact would be it would have been inefficient to move the entire architecture to 48v and then downstate to 12v for systems that needed it. It seemed like there isn’t that much gain.

But again, I think part of it must have been that the supply chain is still mostly 12v and Lucid being a small player couldn’t sway the needle for suppliers to make 48v components.
Click to expand...
I would be extremely surprised if they go 48V. The benefits are there (mostly thinner wires / smaller wiring harnesses, which also means weight), but finding off the shelf components at 48V will be a nightmare, as it’s niche and nearly all vehicles run on 12v.

Cybertruck is the exception, but 48v didn’t save it lol.

Given Lucid already has issues with supply chain and finding consistent components sometimes, I think that’d be a mistake.
 
borski said:
I would be extremely surprised if they go 48V. The benefits are there (mostly thinner wires / smaller wiring harnesses, which also means weight), but finding off the shelf components at 48V will be a nightmare, as it’s niche and nearly all vehicles run on 12v.

Cybertruck is the exception, but 48v didn’t save it lol.

Given Lucid already has issues with supply chain and finding consistent components sometimes, I think that’d be a mistake.
Click to expand...
Here Eric Bach talks about Lucid’s thinking on 48v, discussion starts at 29:35.


Basically for systems like compressor and other higher voltage applications they are already on 400v (if higher is better then they are doing 400v) .
 
borski said:
Given Lucid already has issues with supply chain and finding consistent components sometimes, I think that’d be a mistake.
Click to expand...

One of the things Lucid still has to learn is not to engineer beyond their manufacturing and execution abilities.

I hate to say that, because what first drew me to Lucid was how many needles they moved simultaneously in designing and engineering the Air, particularly with power, efficiency, and space.

However, having now lived with multiple Lucids for several years, I've come to realize they've got one more mountain yet to scale: reliability.
 
BrianBigNFun said:
300-330 range is the standard for the mid-size category and many do not even reach that (Ioniq 5 and Toyota, etc)
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It is currently, but 2027's standard will be carried by the neue iX3 at 400 miles EPA, and the EX60 P12 is said to exceed that. The new GLC EV is the weakling of the three at about 350 miles EPA.
 
DeaneG said:
It is currently, but 2027's standard will be carried by the neue iX3 at 400 miles EPA, and the EX60 P12 is said to exceed that. The new GLC EV is the weakling of the three at about 350 miles EPA.
Click to expand...

Both the iX3 and EX60 P12 need 110+ kwh batteries to hit that estimated 400 mile EPA range. That's around 3.3mi/kwh efficiency for both of them. GLC is 94kwh for an estimated 380 miles (converting from WLTP) which works out to be 4.04 mi/kwh(!). The Rivian R2 needs an 88kwh battery to hit 330 miles of range, giving it 3.75mi/kwh. Model Y uses 78kwh to reach 295 miles. Lucid's investor's presentation says they can hit 300 miles with a 69kwh battery or 4.34 mi/kwh.

This is partially why the BMW and Volvo are going to be more expensive than the Rivian, and presumably the Lucid. If the Cosmos uses the same battery size as the R2, that'll be an estimated 380 mile EPA range, which would be good enough for the majority of situations.

Some of the cost advantage of a more efficient overall package is going to be eaten up by the much better compute hardware every Cosmos/Earth comes with that I detailed further up in this thread. I doubt Lucid can afford to price the Cosmos like the Model Y so the R2 is probably going to be the main competitor, feature and price-wise. Lucid has already come out and said they would be targeting a 50k price point (with a sub 50k version coming out later, exactly like Rivian) which is 10k cheaper than the iX3 and EX60, and presumably the GLC EV. Rivian revealing what the lidar and RAP1 version of the R2 costs will probably give Lucid a clue as to how they should be pricing a fully speced (non-Dream Edition) Cosmos. Or maybe Lucid can undercut Rivian and price the Cosmos the same as these early versions of the R2.
 
erigion said:
Both the iX3 and EX60 P12 need 110+ kwh batteries to hit that estimated 400 mile EPA range. That's around 3.3mi/kwh efficiency for both of them. GLC is 94kwh for an estimated 380 miles (converting from WLTP) which works out to be 4.04 mi/kwh(!). The Rivian R2 needs an 88kwh battery to hit 330 miles of range, giving it 3.75mi/kwh. Model Y uses 78kwh to reach 295 miles. Lucid's investor's presentation says they can hit 300 miles with a 69kwh battery or 4.34 mi/kwh.
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Interesting times ahead!
I'm looking forward to 70mph range tests on all the new midsized SUVs. One of them is going to land in my garage in the next couple of years.
 
DeaneG said:
Interesting times ahead!
I'm looking forward to 70mph range tests on all the new midsized SUVs. One of them is going to land in my garage in the next couple of years.
Click to expand...

iX3 came out in Europe a couple of weeks ago. I've been checking too but it doesn't seem like that there are any range tests from bigger media outlets. There's one YouTuber that has done some efficiency testing at different speeds with the most efficient 20" wheels and extrapolated the theoretical range of a full charge

37 mph: 558 miles
56 mph: 416 miles
81 mph: 285 miles

I'd expect the EX60 to get similar but slightly worse figures.

I don't think either of those SUVs are gonna be breaking efficiency records, but this wasn't a full charge down to empty test. I'm really interested to see how the R2 does on a range test at higher speeds.
 
Stopped by the NY Auto Show with the hope of being surprised by a Cosmos prototype. But no luck, only Airs and Gravities. Lots of people curiously lurking around the cars and waiting for test rides.
 

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