The Changing EV Climate in the U.S.

Bdr100 said:

Agree on lawn equipment for homeowners doing their own lawn. But a majority of lawn care is done by landscaping crews who do 15-20 lawns per day. They will continue to use ICE.

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Yes. This is the case where I live: enormous (4000sqft+) houses on an acre of grass. Everyone hires a lawn service, but not the same one, so there is always a mower/leaf-blower going in earshot: 24/7.

One of the mowers came over to look at my electric string trimmer. I told him it only lasts about 20 minutes / charge, but I have several Li batteries to swap in (and fit several yard tools). This is not practical for a lawn service. The energy density of gasoline kills the competition. But for those who do their own yardwork: Lithium batteries are a godsend. I hope I can get rid of the lawn tractor the same way, but for now gasoline rules. It would be much easier to get rid of the lawn... let it go "wild" ?
this book scared me.

So the answer is getting rid of lawns. I cut mine in half by planting trees, shrubs and perennials, but still have more lawn than I want.
Last year I planted winter wheat as a cover crop.. It grew. In spite of weather, weeds, and wildlife I harvested 8 kg of wheat berries from my former vegetable garden.


I wish I could convince the wife we need to stay, dig a well, install wind, solar and battery back-up, and farm more lawn. She want to move to a condo in the city and get rid of the cars.

U.S. investment in EV battery production being pulled back:

hmp10 said:

Scaringe is an automotive engineer and apparently a pretty good one. If he's looking over his shoulder to see where the technology threats are coming from, he's looking over the wrong shoulder if what he sees is Tesla.

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There has never been more true of a statement.

hmp10 said:

U.S. investment in EV battery production being pulled back:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-ev-tax-credit-cuts-091300454.html

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It can't be fun running a car company over the last 15 years. Government policies pushing, pulling, extorting, bribing, threatening, and flopping back and forth. Now we're finally back to the normal "let the market decide" point. Be interesting to see what the more normal growth path of EVs will be now that they have to stand on their own two feet. (Well, with US federal policy, anyway. Some states are still handing out credits. And some other countries.)

The article did forget to mention that whatever slower growth the domestic EV sector may experience will likely be offset by slower losses in the ICE/hybrid sector. Pretty much a wash on that front. (If even that as EVs should theoretically require fewer manufacturing jobs than ICE, because of a smaller parts supply.)

dbsb3233 said:

Now we're finally back to the normal "let the market decide" point.

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I must have slept through that "normal" let-the-market-decide epoch..

Government has been putting its hands on the scales of one industry and product or another for decades, no matter what party is in power. Tax codes have always favored certain endeavors and penalized others. The current administration -- with its "drill, baby, drill" campaign mantra -- is putting its hand heavily on the scales in favor of fossil fuels, just as it did last time around with a coal industry that had become moribund largely because of the unfavorable economics of coal. And the current tariff zig-zagging is largely about penalizing businesses for decisions they have made about outsourcing, often driven by market and economic pressures, and penalizing consumers for buying products they prefer at the lowest prices they can get them. The administration is even weighing in on whether restaurant chains should change their decor or logo in an attempt to contend with dropping customer interest.

I'm not arguing here about the advisability of one policy versus another. But this notion that we are now returning to a golden age of less government intervention is pure fantasy. What we are entering is a period where the government is actively disincentivizing renewable energy initiatives and encouraging a resurgence of investment in fossil fuels supported by a quickening drumbeat of climate denialism. And EVs are not the only target. Every form of renewable energy is.

hmp10 said:

I must have slept through that "normal" let-the-market-decide epoch..

Government has been putting its hands on the scales of one industry and product or another for decades, no matter what party is in power. Tax codes have always favored certain endeavors and penalized others. The current administration -- with its "drill, baby, drill" campaign mantra -- is putting its hand heavily on the scales in favor of fossil fuels, just as it did last time around with a coal industry that had become moribund largely because of the unfavorable economics of coal. And the current tariff zig-zagging is largely about penalizing businesses for decisions they have made about outsourcing, often driven by market and economic pressures, and penalizing consumers for buying products they prefer at the lowest prices they can get them. The administration is even weighing in on whether restaurant chains should change their decor or logo in an attempt to contend with dropping customer interest.

I'm not arguing here about the advisability of one policy versus another. But this notion that we are now returning to a golden age of less government intervention is pure fantasy. What we are entering is a period where the government is actively disincentivizing renewable energy initiatives and encouraging a resurgence of investment in fossil fuels supported by a quickening drumbeat of climate denialism. And EVs are not the only target. Every form of renewable energy is.

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Actually, some of the states themselves are also disincentivizing EV purchases. I live in a very blue state(Oregon). You would think that they would be promoting EV's for cleaner air, etc. Instead the registration fees are an extra $700 per car for each EV (we own 2)each time the registration needs to be renewed. In addition there is an extra surcharge fee for the title of an EV car and they are trying to pass a bill that would require that your EV be checked every year and fees added on for each mile you drive.I can understand this would be done in "red states", but I am surprised this is being done in very liberal blue state. I guess revenue enhancement tops environmental concerns. Again, I agree with hmp10, if its not the government that is overbearing the states are also making it more difficult to convince people to buy EV's.

hmp10 said:

I must have slept through that "normal" let-the-market-decide epoch..

Government has been putting its hands on the scales of one industry and product or another for decades, no matter what party is in power. Tax codes have always favored certain endeavors and penalized others. The current administration -- with its "drill, baby, drill" campaign mantra -- is putting its hand heavily on the scales in favor of fossil fuels, just as it did last time around with a coal industry that had become moribund largely because of the unfavorable economics of coal. And the current tariff zig-zagging is largely about penalizing businesses for decisions they have made about outsourcing, often driven by market and economic pressures, and penalizing consumers for buying products they prefer at the lowest prices they can get them. The administration is even weighing in on whether restaurant chains should change their decor or logo in an attempt to contend with dropping customer interest.

I'm not arguing here about the advisability of one policy versus another. But this notion that we are now returning to a golden age of less government intervention is pure fantasy. What we are entering is a period where the government is actively disincentivizing renewable energy initiatives and encouraging a resurgence of investment in fossil fuels supported by a quickening drumbeat of climate denialism. And EVs are not the only target. Every form of renewable energy is.

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We'll, sure, the govt still over regulates in general, over taxes in general, manipulates and controls. But selective $7500 subsidies on just certain $50,000 car purchase but not others is well beyond the norm. Removing that puts vehicle purchases more on par with each other. That was my point.

WildRide47 said:

Actually, some of the states themselves are also disincentivizing EV purchases. I live in a very blue state(Oregon). You would think that they would be promoting EV's for cleaner air, etc. Instead the registration fees are an extra $700 per car for each EV (we own 2)each time the registration needs to be renewed. In addition there is an extra surcharge fee for the title of an EV car and they are trying to pass a bill that would require that your EV be checked every year and fees added on for each mile you drive.I can understand this would be done in "red states", but I am surprised this is being done in very liberal blue state. I guess revenue enhancement tops environmental concerns. Again, I agree with hmp10, if its not the government that is overbearing the states are also making it more difficult to convince people to buy EV's.

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I don't live in Oregon, but my understanding is that a lack of gas tax revenue to fund highway infrastructure is what's driving some of the push to impose registration and/or milage fees on EVs. Not how I would run the government if I become king, but not entirely crazy either.

jbawden said:

I would add that we (collective EV owners) need to back off the EV's are everyone's future mantra a bit. They might be, eventually, but to ICE fans its nothing more than a veiled endorsement of those trying to ban ICE. Some here are completely ungrounded to myriad reasons why people choose ICE. ICE is going to coexist with EV's and whatever else comes around as a motivating power for decades. @dbsb3233 I would argue the same is true for the majority of buyers uninterested in EV's: They not avoiding them for political reasons, they just aren't compelling options to them.

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I’m just thrilled that you used “uninterested”, which is correct, versus “disinterested”, which is not.

dbsb3233 said:

We'll, sure, the govt still over regulates in general, over taxes in general, manipulates and controls. But selective $7500 subsidies on just certain $50,000 car purchase but not others is well beyond the norm. Removing that puts vehicle purchases more on par with each other. That was my point.

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Well, for decades and even now, the government provides subsidies to oil companies which indirectly lowers the price of gasoline favoring ICE cars. In my opinion not providing any subsidies to EVs does not put them on "par". Beyond that, tampering with renewable energy as the recent Dept of Interior's revocation of wind projects already 80% complete, show that this administration is not interested fewer regulations nor "free" markets.

GM's midsize SUV/Crossover platform is doing pretty well if you count Prologue + ZDX + Lyric + Blazer. I am surprised the Hummer EV is outselling the Cybertruck. Gravity shows up as 5 on the bottom lol.

TahoeMichael said:

I don't live in Oregon, but my understanding is that a lack of gas tax revenue to fund highway infrastructure is what's driving some of the push to impose registration and/or milage fees on EVs. Not how I would run the government if I become king, but not entirely crazy either.

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Yes, I understand that the $700 registration fee is supposed to make up for the lack of gas tax revenue, but an increased EV title fee that is going to triple and an additional fee for mileage driven actually makes it more expensive to own than a comparable ICE car. This defeats the whole purpose of trying to get people to buy EV's for a cleaner environment. This is going to considerably slow EV adoption in Oregon.

This month is my third year. Free charging expires. No worries, I have a home charger. (what's in your ICE garage?)
The inspection stickers were put on three years ago. The local mechanic didn't even look at the car, he just put on the stickers for free.
I bought the shop lunch. We still take the wife's ICE car there. She, like most people, doesn't think she has to do anything to make climate change go away. She doesn't seem to care about her kids = let them burn...let them drown...let them fight hordes of strangers fleeing climate catastrophe.

I haven't done an oil change or tune-up. The brakes are virtually new. But I guess I need to call Lucid for the annual service visit.


EV maintenance is simple and cheap. Do nothing. Install the software updates. Change the wiper blades. New tires every three years or so. We'll soon find out how long electric motors last ( like, forever). People will get bored with their EV long before the useful lifetime. Soon the very expensive battery will need to be recycled. By then more efficient replacement batteries that cost less and perform better will be available. Instead of turbochargers car tinker nuts will be installing more powerful batteries (and instead of fat exhaust systems: fat wires!

Save your kids the trouble and expense by leaving ICE vehicles behind: Old folk need to start getting rid of all life's accumulations = including the ICE vehicles.


Just how many ICE SUV reefs can we put around Florida? Maybe we can use them as a breakwater and raise New York a dozen meters above the new sea level.

SS United States leaving Philadelphia to be sunk as an amusement in Florida.
Still the fastest average speed crossing of the Atlantic (Blue Riband holder).
The family did a N. Atlantic crossing in March, 1963. It was the most sick I have ever been. Haven't been on a ship since.

"I'll never put on a life jacket..."