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Lucid Lemon Law

@LucidGoosey @Westcory @BooLUCID @Luciyan Any update on your cases? I've been in the process with mine and my attorney has heard no response from them. Also had to apparently refile the case because lucid changed their business name after my purchase but still crickets after 5+ months. Wondering what your experience and outcome was like.
 
ashanlia said:
@LucidGoosey @Westcory @BooLUCID @Luciyan Any update on your cases? I've been in the process with mine and my attorney has heard no response from them. Also had to apparently refile the case because lucid changed their business name after my purchase but still crickets after 5+ months. Wondering what your experience and outcome was like.
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My experience so far is that Lucid won't respond to a lawyer outside of arbitration if you did not opt out of arbitration when you bought the car. This is totally normal.

You need to file the complaint with BBB. Lucid did respond there promptly and assign someone to it with no issue whatsoever. They have 100% complied with updates and information requested so far. If you have requested buyback already, Lucid gives you instruction on starting the BBB process if you don't like their offer.

BBB is going through a arbitration site change and "a flood of cases" right now (didn't specify more than that).

As such, hearings are delayed for a little bit but the delay is due to arbitrator availability, not anything related to Lucid.
 
Before our current Gravity, I also went through BBB to force buyback of my Kia EV9. Overall quite a transparent process, took around 4 months overall
 
There are two organizations that handle arbitration and lemon cases for the auto industry; BBB Autoline and the National Center for Dispute Settlement (NCDS). The manufacturers will partner with one of these organizations for arbitration matters. They essentially operate in a very similar matter. One of the realities of the arbitration system is that the manufacturers are far more familiar with these organizations than consumers. One of the benefits of rejecting arbitration is that it introduces an element of uncertainty to the auto manufacturer and tends to level the playing field a bit.
 
Northpointe said:
There are two organizations that handle arbitration and lemon cases for the auto industry; BBB Autoline and the National Center for Dispute Settlement (NCDS). The manufacturers will partner with one of these organizations for arbitration matters. They essentially operate in a very similar matter. One of the realities of the arbitration system is that the manufacturers are far more familiar with these organizations than consumers. One of the benefits of rejecting arbitration is that it introduces an element of uncertainty to the auto manufacturer and tends to level the playing field a bit.
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This is very helpful thanks. I saw people were saying we should reject arbitration, but it wasn't clear why.
 
L-Dude said:
This is very helpful thanks. I saw people were saying we should reject arbitration, but it wasn't clear why.
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To be clear: nobody was saying you should reject arbitration. Often, arbitration is the easiest and can lead to the best outcome.

What I was saying is you should opt out of being forced into arbitration. You can still choose arbitration; it just leaves the possibility open of a lawsuit of the arbitration is inadequate. Gives you more teeth, that’s all.
 
borski said:
To be clear: nobody was saying you should reject arbitration. Often, arbitration is the easiest and can lead to the best outcome.

What I was saying is you should opt out of being forced into arbitration. You can still choose arbitration; it just leaves the possibility open of a lawsuit of the arbitration is inadequate. Gives you more teeth, that’s all.
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This is a very important distinction. The decision to opt out of arbitration is not the same as forgoing arbitration. Opting out merely preserves your options if you find yourself in a dispute.

Their can be distinct benefits in pursuing arbitration even if you previously decided to opt out. Litigation can be time consuming (years). Arbitration in comparison is not (months). Litigation is costly you will have to pay your attorney. Arbitration fees are generally the responsibility of the auto maker unless your claims are deemed frivolous. While anyone can pursue arbitration, filing a suit requires you to find an attorney, who may or may not be willing to take on your case based on the merits, the likelihood of recovery, and the cost of pursuing litigation. Cases may drag on for years and the court may in fact order another form of resolution. What type of resolution you might ask? Arbitration.

Having said all that, I would still elect to opt out of arbitration in any contract where the stakes are high. And the purchase of a new car meets that criteria. By opting out you are preserving your options. You're giving yourself a choice and that choice may help in resolving your claim in the most favorable manner.

Buying a car these days is a major financial decision. A new Lucid costs more than my first house. And when I bought that house I had an attorney representing me. I'm not suggesting that makes sense when buying a car, but you should know your rights and options before you sign on the dotted line.
 
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ashanlia said:
@LucidGoosey @Westcory @BooLUCID @Luciyan Any update on your cases? I've been in the process with mine and my attorney has heard no response from them. Also had to apparently refile the case because lucid changed their business name after my purchase but still crickets after 5+ months. Wondering what your experience and outcome was like.
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Hi @ashanlia ,

I won my lemon law arbitration against Lucid and they were forced to cancel the lease and take back my 2024 Air Pure 1.5 years into a 4 year lease (I have to pay a few grand to cover excess km). . I represented myself, used the CAMVAP arbitration mechanism instead of actual lemon law in consumer protection / court here in Quebec, and thoroughly documented my failures (multiple towings, stranded on side of road due to frunk issues, ADAS trying to murder me regularly by throwing me into oncoming traffic, need an alignment 3 times a year, and other more minor things like trim falling off, seat threading coming apart, weatherproofing falling off, electrical gremlins, gps and audio cutting out regularly, etc.

I documented everything each time there was an error message or failure with timestamped photos and videos.

What helped me was how arrogant, dishonest, condescending and bad-faith Lucid, especially their legal counsel, acted during the arbitration, both with me and with the arbitrator. Here are some things they said:

"These vehicles are very heavy, over 6000lbs. It's normal to need a realignment a few times a year".
My Air weighed 4500lbs. Less than my old Audi, which didn't need regular alignments every few months.

"The ADAS isn't designed to be used on anything other than multi-lane highways. You need to manually disable it each time you drive on a country road or in the city."
The arbitrator was pretty astounded at this claim.

"We strongly feel that the reason the ADAS keeps sending the car into the oncoming lane is because of the lack of use of the turn signal, and/or the internal camera saw the user wasn't paying attention or was holding their cellphone, so nudged the wheel to "wake him up"."
No comments were made about this statement. Just... silence.

"It's not Lucid's policy to repair a problem more than once, even if it's a manufacturer defect. If the trim falls off more than once, that's because the customer is abusing the vehicle and it's not a design flaw."
No comments.

"These cars are not designed to be parked outside in the winter. If there is any snow or ice on the car, it can cause the frunk to misread its open/closed status. This is by design and the user should never be parking the car outside below freezing."
In response to my trunk+turtle mode+stranded issue. Again, neither I nor the arbitrator felt the need to respond to this.

Even though I had to pay out of pocket for the excess mileage, I'm suuuuuuper relieved that I'm no longer responsible for this vehicle. It was beautiful and comfortable and advanced, but an absolute nightmare and the worst dealership / service / reliability experience I've ever had with any product in my life, full stop (Mini being a close second).

I ended up getting a Kia EV4, which - while aggressively ugly, and very plastic - feel about a million times more solid, has far more usable / actual range (they underpromise and overdeliver, contrary to Lucid who overpromised and underdelivered on range), costs about 1/4 of the price, and whose manufacturer will hopefully not, you know, blame their customer base for their myriad of design flaws.

Feel free to PM me or ask here for any advice about the lemon law process, though I'm in Quebec so ymmv.
 
LucidGoosey said:
Hi @ashanlia ,

I won my lemon law arbitration against Lucid and they were forced to cancel the lease and take back my 2024 Air Pure 1.5 years into a 4 year lease (I have to pay a few grand to cover excess km). . I represented myself, used the CAMVAP arbitration mechanism instead of actual lemon law in consumer protection / court here in Quebec, and thoroughly documented my failures (multiple towings, stranded on side of road due to frunk issues, ADAS trying to murder me regularly by throwing me into oncoming traffic, need an alignment 3 times a year, and other more minor things like trim falling off, seat threading coming apart, weatherproofing falling off, electrical gremlins, gps and audio cutting out regularly, etc.

I documented everything each time there was an error message or failure with timestamped photos and videos.

What helped me was how arrogant, dishonest, condescending and bad-faith Lucid, especially their legal counsel, acted during the arbitration, both with me and with the arbitrator. Here are some things they said:

"These vehicles are very heavy, over 6000lbs. It's normal to need a realignment a few times a year".
My Air weighed 4500lbs. Less than my old Audi, which didn't need regular alignments every few months.

"The ADAS isn't designed to be used on anything other than multi-lane highways. You need to manually disable it each time you drive on a country road or in the city."
The arbitrator was pretty astounded at this claim.

"We strongly feel that the reason the ADAS keeps sending the car into the oncoming lane is because of the lack of use of the turn signal, and/or the internal camera saw the user wasn't paying attention or was holding their cellphone, so nudged the wheel to "wake him up"."
No comments were made about this statement. Just... silence.

"It's not Lucid's policy to repair a problem more than once, even if it's a manufacturer defect. If the trim falls off more than once, that's because the customer is abusing the vehicle and it's not a design flaw."
No comments.

"These cars are not designed to be parked outside in the winter. If there is any snow or ice on the car, it can cause the frunk to misread its open/closed status. This is by design and the user should never be parking the car outside below freezing."
In response to my trunk+turtle mode+stranded issue. Again, neither I nor the arbitrator felt the need to respond to this.

Even though I had to pay out of pocket for the excess mileage, I'm suuuuuuper relieved that I'm no longer responsible for this vehicle. It was beautiful and comfortable and advanced, but an absolute nightmare and the worst dealership / service / reliability experience I've ever had with any product in my life, full stop (Mini being a close second).

I ended up getting a Kia EV4, which - while aggressively ugly, and very plastic - feel about a million times more solid, has far more usable / actual range (they underpromise and overdeliver, contrary to Lucid who overpromised and underdelivered on range), costs about 1/4 of the price, and whose manufacturer will hopefully not, you know, blame their customer base for their myriad of design flaws.

Feel free to PM me or ask here for any advice about the lemon law process, though I'm in Quebec so ymmv.
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Yes. Arrogant and belittling. You are the second person who had that experience and noted how irritated the BBB is with Lucid. I’m the third that I know of.

They chastised both me and the BBB saying that it’s outrageous to say that the time spent waiting for parts, or “administrative time” count towards lemon law. It was such a condescending and aggressive letter it made sure I would never deal with Lucid again. Many excuses it was just pathetic and as a customer I have never been treated so badly.
 
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Wow, I wonder how this will pan out with litigation versus arbitration. I cant be the only owner that had opted out and hired an attorney to deal with it.
 
LucidGoosey said:
Hi @ashanlia ,

I won my lemon law arbitration against Lucid and they were forced to cancel the lease and take back my 2024 Air Pure 1.5 years into a 4 year lease (I have to pay a few grand to cover excess km). . I represented myself, used the CAMVAP arbitration mechanism instead of actual lemon law in consumer protection / court here in Quebec, and thoroughly documented my failures (multiple towings, stranded on side of road due to frunk issues, ADAS trying to murder me regularly by throwing me into oncoming traffic, need an alignment 3 times a year, and other more minor things like trim falling off, seat threading coming apart, weatherproofing falling off, electrical gremlins, gps and audio cutting out regularly, etc.

I documented everything each time there was an error message or failure with timestamped photos and videos.

What helped me was how arrogant, dishonest, condescending and bad-faith Lucid, especially their legal counsel, acted during the arbitration, both with me and with the arbitrator. Here are some things they said:

"These vehicles are very heavy, over 6000lbs. It's normal to need a realignment a few times a year".
My Air weighed 4500lbs. Less than my old Audi, which didn't need regular alignments every few months.

"The ADAS isn't designed to be used on anything other than multi-lane highways. You need to manually disable it each time you drive on a country road or in the city."
The arbitrator was pretty astounded at this claim.

"We strongly feel that the reason the ADAS keeps sending the car into the oncoming lane is because of the lack of use of the turn signal, and/or the internal camera saw the user wasn't paying attention or was holding their cellphone, so nudged the wheel to "wake him up"."
No comments were made about this statement. Just... silence.

"It's not Lucid's policy to repair a problem more than once, even if it's a manufacturer defect. If the trim falls off more than once, that's because the customer is abusing the vehicle and it's not a design flaw."
No comments.

"These cars are not designed to be parked outside in the winter. If there is any snow or ice on the car, it can cause the frunk to misread its open/closed status. This is by design and the user should never be parking the car outside below freezing."
In response to my trunk+turtle mode+stranded issue. Again, neither I nor the arbitrator felt the need to respond to this.

Even though I had to pay out of pocket for the excess mileage, I'm suuuuuuper relieved that I'm no longer responsible for this vehicle. It was beautiful and comfortable and advanced, but an absolute nightmare and the worst dealership / service / reliability experience I've ever had with any product in my life, full stop (Mini being a close second).

I ended up getting a Kia EV4, which - while aggressively ugly, and very plastic - feel about a million times more solid, has far more usable / actual range (they underpromise and overdeliver, contrary to Lucid who overpromised and underdelivered on range), costs about 1/4 of the price, and whose manufacturer will hopefully not, you know, blame their customer base for their myriad of design flaws.

Feel free to PM me or ask here for any advice about the lemon law process, though I'm in Quebec so ymmv.
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Kia EV4 ….? Sorry….
 
socktucker said:
Yes. Arrogant and belittling. You are the second person who had that experience and noted how irritated the BBB is with Lucid. I’m the third that I know of.

They chastised both me and the BBB saying that it’s outrageous to say that the time spent waiting for parts, or “administrative time” count towards lemon law. It was such a condescending and aggressive letter it made sure I would never deal with Lucid again. Many excuses it was just pathetic and as a customer I have never been treated so badly.
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Look, I keep telling you, the more you complain about Lucid, the more likely you won’t get what you want!
 
LucidGoosey said:
Hi @ashanlia ,

I won my lemon law arbitration against Lucid and they were forced to cancel the lease and take back my 2024 Air Pure 1.5 years into a 4 year lease (I have to pay a few grand to cover excess km). . I represented myself, used the CAMVAP arbitration mechanism instead of actual lemon law in consumer protection / court here in Quebec, and thoroughly documented my failures (multiple towings, stranded on side of road due to frunk issues, ADAS trying to murder me regularly by throwing me into oncoming traffic, need an alignment 3 times a year, and other more minor things like trim falling off, seat threading coming apart, weatherproofing falling off, electrical gremlins, gps and audio cutting out regularly, etc.

I documented everything each time there was an error message or failure with timestamped photos and videos.

What helped me was how arrogant, dishonest, condescending and bad-faith Lucid, especially their legal counsel, acted during the arbitration, both with me and with the arbitrator. Here are some things they said:

"These vehicles are very heavy, over 6000lbs. It's normal to need a realignment a few times a year".
My Air weighed 4500lbs. Less than my old Audi, which didn't need regular alignments every few months.

"The ADAS isn't designed to be used on anything other than multi-lane highways. You need to manually disable it each time you drive on a country road or in the city."
The arbitrator was pretty astounded at this claim.

"We strongly feel that the reason the ADAS keeps sending the car into the oncoming lane is because of the lack of use of the turn signal, and/or the internal camera saw the user wasn't paying attention or was holding their cellphone, so nudged the wheel to "wake him up"."
No comments were made about this statement. Just... silence.

"It's not Lucid's policy to repair a problem more than once, even if it's a manufacturer defect. If the trim falls off more than once, that's because the customer is abusing the vehicle and it's not a design flaw."
No comments.

"These cars are not designed to be parked outside in the winter. If there is any snow or ice on the car, it can cause the frunk to misread its open/closed status. This is by design and the user should never be parking the car outside below freezing."
In response to my trunk+turtle mode+stranded issue. Again, neither I nor the arbitrator felt the need to respond to this.

Even though I had to pay out of pocket for the excess mileage, I'm suuuuuuper relieved that I'm no longer responsible for this vehicle. It was beautiful and comfortable and advanced, but an absolute nightmare and the worst dealership / service / reliability experience I've ever had with any product in my life, full stop (Mini being a close second).

I ended up getting a Kia EV4, which - while aggressively ugly, and very plastic - feel about a million times more solid, has far more usable / actual range (they underpromise and overdeliver, contrary to Lucid who overpromised and underdelivered on range), costs about 1/4 of the price, and whose manufacturer will hopefully not, you know, blame their customer base for their myriad of design flaws.

Feel free to PM me or ask here for any advice about the lemon law process, though I'm in Quebec so ymmv.
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It’s ludicrous to expect Lucid to just cave in during arbitration. Of course they will fight you. Think they will just roll over?
 
LucidGoosey said:
Hi @ashanlia ,

I won my lemon law arbitration against Lucid and they were forced to cancel the lease and take back my 2024 Air Pure 1.5 years into a 4 year lease (I have to pay a few grand to cover excess km). . I represented myself, used the CAMVAP arbitration mechanism instead of actual lemon law in consumer protection / court here in Quebec, and thoroughly documented my failures (multiple towings, stranded on side of road due to frunk issues, ADAS trying to murder me regularly by throwing me into oncoming traffic, need an alignment 3 times a year, and other more minor things like trim falling off, seat threading coming apart, weatherproofing falling off, electrical gremlins, gps and audio cutting out regularly, etc.

I documented everything each time there was an error message or failure with timestamped photos and videos.

What helped me was how arrogant, dishonest, condescending and bad-faith Lucid, especially their legal counsel, acted during the arbitration, both with me and with the arbitrator. Here are some things they said:

"These vehicles are very heavy, over 6000lbs. It's normal to need a realignment a few times a year".
My Air weighed 4500lbs. Less than my old Audi, which didn't need regular alignments every few months.

"The ADAS isn't designed to be used on anything other than multi-lane highways. You need to manually disable it each time you drive on a country road or in the city."
The arbitrator was pretty astounded at this claim.

"We strongly feel that the reason the ADAS keeps sending the car into the oncoming lane is because of the lack of use of the turn signal, and/or the internal camera saw the user wasn't paying attention or was holding their cellphone, so nudged the wheel to "wake him up"."
No comments were made about this statement. Just... silence.

"It's not Lucid's policy to repair a problem more than once, even if it's a manufacturer defect. If the trim falls off more than once, that's because the customer is abusing the vehicle and it's not a design flaw."
No comments.

"These cars are not designed to be parked outside in the winter. If there is any snow or ice on the car, it can cause the frunk to misread its open/closed status. This is by design and the user should never be parking the car outside below freezing."
In response to my trunk+turtle mode+stranded issue. Again, neither I nor the arbitrator felt the need to respond to this.

Even though I had to pay out of pocket for the excess mileage, I'm suuuuuuper relieved that I'm no longer responsible for this vehicle. It was beautiful and comfortable and advanced, but an absolute nightmare and the worst dealership / service / reliability experience I've ever had with any product in my life, full stop (Mini being a close second).

I ended up getting a Kia EV4, which - while aggressively ugly, and very plastic - feel about a million times more solid, has far more usable / actual range (they underpromise and overdeliver, contrary to Lucid who overpromised and underdelivered on range), costs about 1/4 of the price, and whose manufacturer will hopefully not, you know, blame their customer base for their myriad of design flaws.

Feel free to PM me or ask here for any advice about the lemon law process, though I'm in Quebec so ymmv.
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It would be interesting to see the transcript of the entire arbitration.
 
JohnEDee said:
It would be interesting to see the transcript of the entire arbitration.
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Yup. I suspect this is a “there are three sides” situation
 
Lucid really missed something important. The car is now plagued with a "Lemon Title" that will follow the car forever and anywhere in Canada and might not be resealable (even in U.S ?) Who wants an official lemon registered car ? Here in Canada and mostly in Québec the consumer protection law are really strong and will deeply protect the consumer first. That means that on 3 strikes, the constructor have already one out before any earing. For a lease car, taking back the contract, and have a clean title, would have been way less damaging for Lucid (my math and can be wrong) but for the company's image it is really really bad. Hiring a lawyer (who knows nothing about the car's systems) and letting him bullshitting the court didn't work (obviously) for Lucid. Strike 2...
@ LucidGoosey being well prepare for the cause goes straight to strike 3...
Sorry Lucid ! Of course there is always 2 versions on story like that and having the complete transcript would be interesting but bottom line... who lost...
Reading about anything on Lucid here and wherever else, I don't understand how so many Air are really good (mine for example) and so many seem to be really bad ? Didn't they all came from the same factory?
 
gaskiller said:
It’s ludicrous to expect Lucid to just cave in during arbitration. Of course they will fight you. Think they will just roll over?
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No but you expect them to be honest. If Lucid said only half of what is posted above, they should be ashamed. Simply appalling.
 
Based on recent experience, I'd recommend starting a Youtube channel. That should help accelerate your claim.
 
T
Macgreiner said:
Based on recent experience, I'd recommend starting a Youtube channel. That should help accelerate your claim.
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Yup! that's where we are now... Sometimes I think some of them should be called "inTuber" or "profiTuber" lol. 😂
The problems that @LucidGoosey had was apparently more serious then all the jokes the "engineer " report. Go figure...
Lucid lost again, this time on integrity. ☹️
 
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