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Lucid Autonomous Driving Future

TahoeMichael said:
It's not quite as clear cut as that. Certainly it's true that a written contract usually trumps a verbal contract. All the marketing materials that a company produces around its products fall into the middle somewhere, and no one expects a sales receipt, or even a window sticker, to comprehensively list every tiny detail about what's being promised. This has been proven out in court on multiple occasions. There are even examples of a court putting more weight on the marketing material than on the legalese. A famous example is Honda losing lawsuits where children got injured riding their ATVs. The warnings and owner's manual of the ATV said that the vehicles weren't for children, but Honda's advertisements showed children riding them.
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And Lucid is already misrepresenting what it’s delivering compared to its marketing

1765755135909.webp


Hands Free and Traffic Light Detection don’t have the word future written on them nor a little * . Same applies with the AR HUD

1765755283890.webp


When you’re charging for these features in advance they kind of owe it to customers on when they can be expected. If you’re doing an 18 month lease and were told AR functionality to the HUD isn’t coming for 2 years, you wouldn’t package it.
 
HC_79 said:
And Lucid is already misrepresenting what it’s delivering compared to its marketing

View attachment 35136

Hands Free and Traffic Light Detection don’t have the word future written on them nor a little * . Same applies with the AR HUD

View attachment 35137

When you’re charging for these features in advance they kind of owe it to customers on when they can be expected. If you’re doing an 18 month lease and were told AR functionality to the HUD isn’t coming for 2 years, you wouldn’t package it.
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I hate the practice of selling the future instead of the actual present, real product.

I the old days, it was hard to do that with physical hardware, but now with software, they can sell the moons!

For example, it's hard to sell a black and white television and say that just wait, it will magically become color someday just like the one your neighbor overpaid for the color one!

Apple sold iPhone 16 with AI, but it said wait, and it will happen in a future OTA!

news.bloomberglaw.com

Apple AI Washing Cases Signal New Line of Deception Litigation

Recent lawsuits over Apple Inc.‘s claims about iPhone AI capabilities serve as a warning to other companies rushing to market their use of artificial intelligence, and suggest they should take a more measured approach.
news.bloomberglaw.com news.bloomberglaw.com

Companies use software excuse to sell the future.
 
TahoeMichael said:
It's not quite as clear cut as that. Certainly it's true that a written contract usually trumps a verbal contract. All the marketing materials that a company produces around its products fall into the middle somewhere, and no one expects a sales receipt, or even a window sticker, to comprehensively list every tiny detail about what's being promised. This has been proven out in court on multiple occasions. There are even examples of a court putting more weight on the marketing material than on the legalese. A famous example is Honda losing lawsuits where children got injured riding their ATVs. The warnings and owner's manual of the ATV said that the vehicles weren't for children, but Honda's advertisements showed children riding them.
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At the time of buying my DreamDrive, Lucid gave the specs:

dream_drive_comparison_table-webp.24285


The highest capability it sold to me is "Highway Assist."

The spec did not sell me "hands-free," Auto Lane Change...

It did not sell me L3 "Highway Pilot with Hands-off, eyes-off...

Yes, there are presentations saying the Air could get more than "Highway Assist," but that's not what's on the specs that Lucid was selling me.
 
Looking at the chip specs

Nvidia Thor- which is presently in the Gravity = 256 TOPS

Nvidia Orin chip for midsize autonomy- 2000 TOPS and you can club 2 together for 4000 TOPS

Rivian proprietary chip- 1600 TOPS and you can club 2 together ( maybe more?) to get 3200 TOPS

The way I see it, Lucid will have more compute power for autonomy than Rivian. I’m sure Nvidia chips will outperform Rivian chips at any stage in the future. Yeah, it saves a few hundred dollars per car, but you also have to invest a lot and what happens if you mess up something critical in the design phase. Too risky but it creates hype like Tesla- “ oh look, we are a tech company though we get all our earnings from cars\ sales” - analysts going all cuckoo over it.
 
gaskiller said:
Looking at the chip specs

Nvidia Thor- which is presently in the Gravity = 256 TOPS

Nvidia Orin chip for midsize autonomy- 2000 TOPS and you can club 2 together for 4000 TOPS

Rivian proprietary chip- 1600 TOPS and you can club 2 together ( maybe more?) to get 3200 TOPS

The way I see it, Lucid will have more compute power for autonomy than Rivian. I’m sure Nvidia chips will outperform Rivian chips at any stage in the future. Yeah, it saves a few hundred dollars per car, but you also have to invest a lot and what happens if you mess up something critical in the design phase. Too risky but it creates hype like Tesla- “ oh look, we are a tech company though we get all our earnings from cars\ sales” - analysts going all cuckoo over it.
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The biggest risk for Rivian building its own processors is that it's a bit of a black art to try and squeeze the theoretical performance out of these chips, and actually deliver usable computing power. Nvidia has a big head start, and it wouldn't be surprising if Rivian has a real-world number of TOPS that's proportionally lower than Nvidia based systems. Rivian should expect to need multiple generations of designs before they'd match Nvidia's efficiency. That said, it's far from clear how much power is needed for autonomous driving, so I'd hesitate to predict that Nvidia gives Lucid an advantage due to processing power.
 
gaskiller said:
Looking at the chip specs

Nvidia Thor- which is presently in the Gravity = 256 TOPS

Nvidia Orin chip for midsize autonomy- 2000 TOPS and you can club 2 together for 4000 TOPS

Rivian proprietary chip- 1600 TOPS and you can club 2 together ( maybe more?) to get 3200 TOPS

The way I see it, Lucid will have more compute power for autonomy than Rivian. I’m sure Nvidia chips will outperform Rivian chips at any stage in the future. Yeah, it saves a few hundred dollars per car, but you also have to invest a lot and what happens if you mess up something critical in the design phase. Too risky but it creates hype like Tesla- “ oh look, we are a tech company though we get all our earnings from cars\ sales” - analysts going all cuckoo over it.
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You switched Thor and Orin. Thor is Nvidia's latest Jetson and it claims to have 2000 TOPS performance. Of course, that's for FP4 operations and mostly theoretical, and not very likely to be achieved in real life.

It doesn't seem that Rivian said what data types the 2000 TOPS are for, so it might still be FP4. Again, not likely to be achieved in real life.

Edit: Just found it, Rivian says it's measuring INT8 operations. For that Thor is likely to have around 1000 TOPS.
 
gaskiller said:
Looking at the chip specs

Nvidia Thor- which is presently in the Gravity = 256 TOPS

Nvidia Orin chip for midsize autonomy- 2000 TOPS and you can club 2 together for 4000 TOPS

Rivian proprietary chip- 1600 TOPS and you can club 2 together ( maybe more?) to get 3200 TOPS

The way I see it, Lucid will have more compute power for autonomy than Rivian. I’m sure Nvidia chips will outperform Rivian chips at any stage in the future. Yeah, it saves a few hundred dollars per car, but you also have to invest a lot and what happens if you mess up something critical in the design phase. Too risky but it creates hype like Tesla- “ oh look, we are a tech company though we get all our earnings from cars\ sales” - analysts going all cuckoo over it.
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Gravity has dual computers each with an Orin chip which means it can deliver up to 500 TOPS
 
HC_79 said:
Gravity has dual computers each with an Orin chip which means it can deliver up to 500 TOPS
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Is 500 TOPS enough to handle a complex request from a keyfob such as "open the door" or "allow the car to shift into Drive"? Asking for a friend. 🤣
 
gaskiller said:
Looking at the chip specs

Nvidia Thor- which is presently in the Gravity = 256 TOPS

Nvidia Orin chip for midsize autonomy- 2000 TOPS and you can club 2 together for 4000 TOPS
Click to expand...

Wouldn't they start putting the Orin in the Gravity at some point? With the release of the mid- size perhaps? Doubtful but I'd hope it would evolve next year, maybe as a '27 model year.
 
Nunya said:
Wouldn't they start putting the Orin in the Gravity at some point? With the release of the mid- size perhaps? Doubtful but I'd hope it would evolve next year, maybe as a '27 model year.
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I doubt they'd change the chip before feeling that they had software which would actually make use of more processing power. Since they're striving to have a unified software stack, another reason might be to iron out hardware incompatibilities. But since they'll have a lot of vehicles in the field with older hardware, they're going to have to keep supporting it regardless.
 
It's tough to find hardware information. From what I can find (also mentioned by @gaskiller @HC_79), both the Gravity DDP2 and Air DDP have:
Based on the hardware, I expect we'll get Level 3 with Lucid's partnership with nVida on both the Air's DDP and Gravity's DDP2. It sounds like the future mid-sized SUV will have Hyperion 10 with robotaxi capability (level 4). See the Lucid to Use Nvidia Alpamayo thread.
 
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