LUCID Gravity Lease vs Finance

Montana. Look it up. ChatGPT or Google. Be an American patriot and avoid paying taxes to the “woke” states like Texas 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤔

There are so many Virginia folks driving Porsche vehicles here with Montana plates it’s not even funny. I feel like a sucker
 
There’s not much analysis needed. Buying is better - even if you’re “writing it off”. We don’t need to quote the IRS. Ask your accountant or ChatGPT. Buying will get cheaper as rates come down. I am actually now looking to buy out my lease which is about 40 days old! For those that want to know what the terms will be, I hope to find out on Monday and will let everyone know.

The only real reason to lease is typically lower monthly payments and/or you need/want/like a new car every three years.

As discussed here, if you’re super concerned about depreciation that could be a reason to lease but it’s not a very good one (though I thought it was when I chose to lease) OR you think Lucid is going out of business and no one will buy their tech. The latter was an issue for me that I’ve since realized is absurd because there’s legit proprietary tech and someone will buy it. Fisker had nothing, Lucid has a lot of battery and propulsion tech.

As for service, Lucid will figure it out. If you love EVs (I do) and you don’t like the offerings from typical folks (Porsche, BMW, etc - I don’t), take comfort in the fact there’s literally no way Lucid service can be worse than Tesla or Rivian or have more recall issues than those companies.
 
I visited the San Diego studio today while out here on the west coast. I wanted to get another look at the Gravity. I only had a 10 minute test drive at the Lenox Mall pop-up store back in May in Atlanta. A few thoughts and observations:

- Wow, the Gravity is a lot bigger than I remember. It is WIDE. I’ve got a 4-post lift in my garage and I realized the Gravity may not fit between the posts. I need to get home and measure. I may have to move the lift to the left side of my garage, which means modifying the garage door rail system on that side. I made the move to an SUV because of the utility and upright seating position, although I’m single, don’t have kids, and don’t need a people hauler. I probably have a move to Florida in my future, since I’m finished working, and the Gravity will certainly help with hauling stuff.

- The store Gravity had the 22”/23” wheels, which is what I ordered on my DE. That rear wheel is BIG. And that tire is going to be expensive when it comes time to buy one, not to mention any repair to the wheel rim. I will definitely be buying wheel insurance, and separately the tire coverage from Discount Tire.

- The store model had the white interior. I like the white interior on the Tesla Model S, but the Lucid white not so much, maybe because it has more grey in it. I’m glad I went with the Tahoe.

- The store was busy. There was a lot of foot traffic and a lot of people were looking at both the Gravity and AIr. Several people were closing deals with sales consultants at small desks.

- I casually mentioned to one of the SAs that I had a DE on order and didn’t receive the CEO email or the speedform. One of the more senior SAs came over and promised to follow-up for me. Yet another senior SA came over, Robbie, who may be the manager, and said that the CEO email and speedform only went to the people who ordered late last year or in the first quarter this year. I ordered June 6th. Don’t know if that is true, but I’ve been waiting 3 months and I’m without my primary driver.

- I also had a chance to sit in the Air (I had also ridden in my neighbor’s Air in May). The Air is really beautiful. Sitting in it made me long for my totaled BMW M5. I think I would’ve seriously considered an Air if it had NACS and the same rapid charging architecture as the Gravity. I wish they had made the Air with a hatchback similar to the Model S. I opened the trunk and folded down the rear seats in the Air. It reminded me of all the times had done that in my BMW, and the space limitations of wanting to buy something big at Costco and not being able to get it home (first-world problems, I know).

- Robbie offered to let me do another Gravity test drive, which I thought was extremely nice of him, given they knew I already had a Dream Edition on order. At first I declined because I didn’t want to deny someone else a test drive. However, the schedule on Thursday was wide open. I decided to take him up on it for several reasons. First, my brother is flying in and I want him to see the car and get his opinion. Second, I feel I need some more time with the car to make certain of my decision. I think some of the teething issues I’ve been reading about have me feeling uneasy about the Gravity. When I sat in it I was less jazzed than last time.

- The SAs in the store were super nice and helpful. I can’t say enough good things about them.
 
Montana. Look it up. ChatGPT or Google. Be an American patriot and avoid paying taxes to the “woke” states like Texas 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤔

There are so many Virginia folks driving Porsche vehicles here with Montana plates it’s not even funny. I feel like a sucker
Georgia started cracking down on those Montana plates several years ago. I believe they started making people prove residency if you happened to get pulled over. I’m also not sure what State Farm would have to say about that. Nowadays the last thing I need is a tussle with my insurance agency over a $140K vehicle if it ever got in an accident.
 
There’s not much analysis needed. Buying is better - even if you’re “writing it off”. We don’t need to quote the IRS. Ask your accountant or ChatGPT. Buying will get cheaper as rates come down. I am actually now looking to buy out my lease which is about 40 days old! For those that want to know what the terms will be, I hope to find out on Monday and will let everyone know.

The only real reason to lease is typically lower monthly payments and/or you need/want/like a new car every three years.

As discussed here, if you’re super concerned about depreciation that could be a reason to lease but it’s not a very good one (though I thought it was when I chose to lease) OR you think Lucid is going out of business and no one will buy their tech. The latter was an issue for me that I’ve since realized is absurd because there’s legit proprietary tech and someone will buy it. Fisker had nothing, Lucid has a lot of battery and propulsion tech.

As for service, Lucid will figure it out. If you love EVs (I do) and you don’t like the offerings from typical folks (Porsche, BMW, etc - I don’t), take comfort in the fact there’s literally no way Lucid service can be worse than Tesla or Rivian or have more recall issues than those companies.
@Ron_Burgundy yes, please let us know the early buy-out terms. I’m interested in maybe snagging that $7,500 credit and then doing the buyout later if the terms make sense.
 
@Bdr100 this was super helpful for me. Like you, I tend pay cash and keep my cars a long time. Many years ago I leased two vehicles and swore I’d never do it again. I take very good care of my vehicles and felt like I was returning them new. I didn’t buy them out because the buy-out was higher than the market value, and the leasing company was unyielding on the buy-out price. However, I’m considering leasing for the reasons and logic you mentioned. In Georgia you pay sales tax on the lease amount (the depreciation), and then later on the buyout (residual). So, I’m not double taxed on the entire amount. Over on the lease thread it was mentioned that 36 months was kinda the sweet spot for leases.
I leased my ‘25 AGT back in December because the lease deal was actually less expensive than cash thanks to an extremely low cap rate and $7500 credit. I have a pre-determined buyout price that unless the car is giving me problems, I will exercise and purchase my Air irrespective of how that buyout price relates to the then current FMV.

The concern about FMV at the end of a lease is irrelevant IMHO because the devil you know is always better than the devil you don’t. By way of example, let’s say my buyout price is $60,000 but FMV is $50,000. What are my options if I love the Air and want to keep driving it? I guess I could go out into the used market and “save” $10,000, but then I am buying a used car that may have issues of which I am unaware. So, personally, I would gladly pay that extra $10,000 to keep my own car because I know how well I care for my vehicles.

Of course I could also jump into a new lease on a new car (Air, Gravity or other), but I like to keep my cars at least 8 years as financially the first three years of ownership are brutal from a depreciation standpoint, so rolling over leases is a very, very expensive habit. In fact, the only lease I have done in the past 20 years has been this Air because of the combination of extremely low cap rate and $7500 credit which combined made the lease cheaper than cash…
 
Thanks. After further research (Motor Vehicle Tax Guide on Comptroller.Texas.Gov) shows that you get double taxed if you buy out your lease. This extra tax wipes out most of the $7500 lease credit and so if I am seriously thinking of keeping Gravity long term, leasing is a non-starter, particularly with the current high money factor (interest rate) on Gravity leases.
And even if not double-taxed, paying the full tax upfront also means losing some of the benefit of leasing and deciding to move on at lease end. If the car's value drops from $120k to $70k after 3 years, and your tax rate is 7%, that's $4900 you've "lost" if you walk away at that point. That alone eats of most of the $7500. Higher lease interest rates probably eat the rest (or more).

More and more it looks like just buying it is probably the better option. Also, one more perk of buying... If you do decide to sell it after 3 years, and you use it as trade-in, in most states you only pay sales tax on the difference. So in effect, you get credit for that $4900. (Although a dealership will probably offer you less for trade-in knowing that, so it could just end up being a wash.)

$7500 is a lot of money when talking about a $50k car. But on a $120k car, it turns out to not be that much because every other factor is so magnified. It's only 6%. Taxes alone are often higher. Interest too.
 
This discussion is both enlightening and frustrating. So let me sum up with some fundamentals:

Globally : Humans are more rationalizing decisions than making rational decisions. That is we most often justify decisions that are complex with simplicity.

Specifically: Behavioral studies elucidate the innacuracies. Many decisions involve valuing indeterminate risk, on both cost/expense and reward.

Example: Trading in or returning a leased Tesla biases the cost of ownership lower. How? The Tesla valuation system relied on unreliable images of the car. Ergo minor scrapes, dents, scratch were not charged to the owner. LUCID/BofA overcharges skewed the expense in the other direction TOTALLY UNEXPECTEDLY.

This discussion really devolves to individual comfort zones built on irrational human experience.

1) what cash flow makes you comfortable.
2) what does time value of money mean to you
3)what gives you pleasure? Getting the best initial price or claiming the best net price after it’s all real cost instead of speculated cost?
4)how do you value the cost, dollar uncertainty and effort uncertainty, in disgorging the vehicle assuming you have already rationalized buying and owning an early release vehicle.

So in this discussion - everyone enlightens the rest of us one way or another. But no one will define our individual comfort zones and values.
 
So, to buy my car off the lease today is about $105,000, per payoff request from Lucid Finance. Total cost of car was about $127,000 when I bought it (including taxes).

Without getting too deep into the numbers, as was suspected, you do NOT get the benefit of the tax credit if you buy it soon after lease. I effectively could buy it for the purchase price less my money down and the “principal” paid from two lease payments…

What I think will be really interesting is if I offer to buy it off the lease and want to trade it to Lucid to get the GGT my wife had ordered as it had the preferred specs (black, stealth, smallest wheels and power)…wonder what they’d give me for the trade? Will report back. Don’t think I’d do this as it’s literally just wasting money, but I am curious about the trade price. Lucid uses KBB but KBB has no values for Gravity yet. I’d take like for like even though my current GGT was more expensive as it’s platinum with larger tires.

Should’ve just paid cash originally and put it to bed and stopped with all the opportunity cost, etc analysis…
 
If you change the state in which you register a leased car, does it change the lease tax treatment?
Yes, if you do it at time of purchase. But beware that there's state-by-state complexity in the rules for registering a vehicle if you aren't a resident of the state.
 
I leased my ‘25 AGT back in December because the lease deal was actually less expensive than cash thanks to an extremely low cap rate and $7500 credit. I have a pre-determined buyout price that unless the car is giving me problems, I will exercise and purchase my Air irrespective of how that buyout price relates to the then current FMV.

The concern about FMV at the end of a lease is irrelevant IMHO because the devil you know is always better than the devil you don’t. By way of example, let’s say my buyout price is $60,000 but FMV is $50,000. What are my options if I love the Air and want to keep driving it? I guess I could go out into the used market and “save” $10,000, but then I am buying a used car that may have issues of which I am unaware. So, personally, I would gladly pay that extra $10,000 to keep my own car because I know how well I care for my vehicles.

Of course I could also jump into a new lease on a new car (Air, Gravity or other), but I like to keep my cars at least 8 years as financially the first three years of ownership are brutal from a depreciation standpoint, so rolling over leases is a very, very expensive habit. In fact, the only lease I have done in the past 20 years has been this Air because of the combination of extremely low cap rate and $7500 credit which combined made the lease cheaper than cash…
This generally aligns with my thinking, which is why I've never leased a car. Add in that a lease forces me to deal with a finance company, which isn't always a pleasant experience. If I don't lease, I'm likely to just pay cash, and not carry a loan on the vehicle.

On the flip side, the repair costs of EVs seem to often be eye-poppingly large. With ICE vehicles, I've never worried too much about repair expenses once out of warranty. I'll be watching very closely here to see what the costs are as Airs leave warranty.
 
This generally aligns with my thinking, which is why I've never leased a car. Add in that a lease forces me to deal with a finance company, which isn't always a pleasant experience. If I don't lease, I'm likely to just pay cash, and not carry a loan on the vehicle.

On the flip side, the repair costs of EVs seem to often be eye-poppingly large. With ICE vehicles, I've never worried too much about repair expenses once out of warranty. I'll be watching very closely here to see what the costs are as Airs leave warranty.
Yes, out of warranty repairs can be absurd and there’s no mechanic to take them to (yet). Tesla had an extended warranty when I bought my X in 2016 for an extra four years and I bought it. I don’t think they offer it anymore as they definitely lost a ton on it.
 
Yes, out of warranty repairs can be absurd and there’s no mechanic to take them to (yet). Tesla had an extended warranty when I bought my X in 2016 for an extra four years and I bought it. I don’t think they offer it anymore as they definitely lost a ton on it.
As per the preceeding comment about the scarcity of repair shops (the resolution of which could provide the competitive pressure needed to force some price discipline on repair costs) as of today there are ZERO authorized repair shops in Delaware. So when I needed some work done, I checked out a repair shop near Wayne, PA & another one in Alexandria, VA. Neither was especially convenient to Rehobeth Beach, but that was what was necessary. That being said, the Air is the nicest, most fun car to drive I have ever had the pleasure of driving. As a former owner of Mercedes & Audis, I have an idea of what makes for a good car. My Lucid Touring is the clear winner. By far. Yes, you'll probably have an occasional issue with the Lucid software, but these issues are far less frequent and less disruptive. I lived thru almost 3 years of teething pains with my Air, but I wouldn't change a thing. Buy the car. Whether a used Lucid sold by a Volvo dealer will be your best option is a question only you can answer. But I'd encourage you to follow this site as one will sometimes find a current Lucid owner who lists their car here before going to a used car dealer. Good luck on your journey.
 
So is the lease tax credit if you take delivery by end of year or September 30? I thought it was order by September 30 and take delivery by EOY. The wording on Lucids website seemed to change or am I wrong?
 
So is the lease tax credit if you take delivery by end of year or September 30? I thought it was order by September 30 and take delivery by EOY. The wording on Lucids website seemed to change or am I wrong?
As long as you order the Gravity by the end of September 30 and get it delivered by the end of this year you qualify for $7.5k tax credit when leasing the car.
 
As long as you order the Gravity by the end of September 30 and get it delivered by the end of this year you qualify for $7.5k tax credit when leasing the car.
To clarify, it's not a tax credit, it's a reduction in the capital cost that Lucid/BofA is offering to leases only. The current versions of the Gravity (whether GT or DE) won't qualify for the regular EV tax credit due to being in excess of $80k MSRP.
 
To clarify, it's not a tax credit, it's a reduction in the capital cost that Lucid/BofA is offering to leases only. The current versions of the Gravity (whether GT or DE) won't qualify for the regular EV tax credit due to being in excess of $80k MSRP.
The second part isn't actually true, leases get around the $80k MSRP rule. That said, the lease credit is ending this week and Lucid will be doing their own credit.
 
So, to buy my car off the lease today is about $105,000, per payoff request from Lucid Finance. Total cost of car was about $127,000 when I bought it (including taxes).

Without getting too deep into the numbers, as was suspected, you do NOT get the benefit of the tax credit if you buy it soon after lease. I effectively could buy it for the purchase price less my money down and the “principal” paid from two lease payments…

What I think will be really interesting is if I offer to buy it off the lease and want to trade it to Lucid to get the GGT my wife had ordered as it had the preferred specs (black, stealth, smallest wheels and power)…wonder what they’d give me for the trade? Will report back. Don’t think I’d do this as it’s literally just wasting money, but I am curious about the trade price. Lucid uses KBB but KBB has no values for Gravity yet. I’d take like for like even though my current GGT was more expensive as it’s platinum with larger tires.

Should’ve just paid cash originally and put it to bed and stopped with all the opportunity cost, etc analysis…
Did you determine how long you needed to make lease payments before being able to buyout and keep the $7,500 EV credit? I wonder if it will change after Sept. 30th, since after that it’s a $7,500 Lucid incentive. Also, as I understand your comment “I effectively could buy it for the purchase price less my money down and the “principal” paid from two lease payments…” so, you don’t owe BoA the lost interest on the remaining 34 month’s of lease payments (assuming 36 month lease), correct? I was leaning towards paying cash, but the optionality of a lease and the $7,500 may be worth letting someone else own the car for a bit if I could buy it out after 12 or 18 months.
 
Did you determine how long you needed to make lease payments before being able to buyout and keep the $7,500 EV credit? I wonder if it will change after Sept. 30th, since after that it’s a $7,500 Lucid incentive. Also, as I understand your comment “I effectively could buy it for the purchase price less my money down and the “principal” paid from two lease payments…” so, you don’t owe BoA the lost interest on the remaining 34 month’s of lease payments (assuming 36 month lease), correct? I was leaning towards paying cash, but the optionality of a lease and the $7,500 may be worth letting someone else own the car for a bit if I could buy it out after 12 or 18 months.
You don’t owe a prepayment premium, no. It’s just like a normal auto or home loan. They hold the right to charge you for the $7,500 during the first 18 months, so I expect they’ll do that regardless of 9/30.

I am finding I am likely going to blow through my 15,000 miles per year, so may have to buy depending on how far over versus actual depreciation. Total guess that “market value” will be less than residual, so I may still be able to avoid buying.
 
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