Gravity 75 mph Range

[Ron_Burgundy]

I’ve noticed that the gravity doesn’t seem to use wall power when turning on climate (unless the car is already charging of course) anybody else?

I’ve not noticed, but wouldn’t surprise me if this was an OTA update that came later. That’s what happened with our R1S.

 

[dbsb3233]

I’ve noticed that the gravity doesn’t seem to use wall power when turning on climate (unless the car is already charging of course) anybody else?

I wouldn't necessarily expect any EV to use wall power directly for heating/cooling. I assume it would still draw from the battery for any power usage like normal, then concurrently refill the battery if it's plugged in. Kinda like a cell phone when it's plugged in. I don't actually know if it works that way though. Just seems like it would.

But maybe it's more complicated than that. Like for instance if it's outside the charging schedule window? Or if it hasn't used quite enough of the battery to kick charging back on (kinda like a home furnace doesn't kick back on if the temp only drops 0.5 of a degree)? Not sure.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

I wouldn't necessarily expect any EV to use wall power directly for heating/cooling. I assume it would still draw from the battery for any power usage like normal, then concurrently refill the battery if it's plugged in. Kinda like a cell phone when it's plugged in. I don't actually know if it works that way though. Just seems like it would.

But maybe it's more complicated than that. Like for instance if it's outside the charging schedule window? Or if it hasn't used quite enough of the battery to kick charging back on (kinda like a home furnace doesn't kick back on if the temp only drops 0.5 of a degree)? Not sure.

I don’t know the electrical specifics, but the Tesla and Rivian do not draw down on battery power and then refill - it’s somehow powers systems fairly directly. Otherwise, you’d get an unnecessary amount of relatively quick cycles on the batteries which would cause accelerated wear. Also, the idea is your range and battery stay at whatever level they’re at while the car is drawing power from the wall charger.

I think of it a bit like a boat and dock power, but no idea if that’s how it works.

 

[dbsb3233]

I don’t know the electrical specifics, but the Tesla and Rivian do not draw down on battery power and then refill - it’s somehow powers systems fairly directly. Otherwise, you’d get an unnecessary amount of relatively quick cycles on the batteries which would cause accelerated wear. Also, the idea is your range and battery stay at whatever level they’re at while the car is drawing power from the wall charger.

I think of it a bit like a boat and dock power, but no idea if that’s how it works.

So those have some internal switching for climate systems to bypass the battery when plugged in? Interesting. Seems unnecessary to a layman like me but obviously they know better. I do question if charging just for a few minutes like to top up is appreciably bad for the battery though. I'd think they'd warn us not to do that ourselves (like plugging in just popping into a store or something) if that were the case. But again... complicated.

In most cases the difference should be negligible, at least. Unless it's super cold outside, it should only take a tiny share of the battery to preheat.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

Lucid does recommend keeping car plugged in at all times when not in use.

I am no expert on battery chemistry, and since they say plug it in all the time, presumably, there’d be many times when one only drove 20 miles that day, so it’s topping off. The real issue, as I understand it, is if you regularly keep the batteries above 80% or below 20% or use DC fast charge as your main method to charge.

I trust Lucid has the software to protect the battery. I also leased the car, so I don’t see degradation as “my” issue…

 

[Elfin]

So those have some internal switching for climate systems to bypass the battery when plugged in? Interesting. Seems unnecessary to a layman like me but obviously they know better. I do question if charging just for a few minutes like to top up is appreciably bad for the battery though. I'd think they'd warn us not to do that ourselves (like plugging in just popping into a store or something) if that were the case. But again... complicated.

In most cases the difference should be negligible, at least. Unless it's super cold outside, it should only take a tiny share of the battery to preheat.

They convert 240V AC to the battery voltage and then run the HVAC off of that voltage. To be super pedantic, because the current probably flows along a metal bus within the battery you could argue that it is using the battery pack even though the battery cells themselves are not being used.

 

[indigo6]

A few data points to add. We took a 44 mile (one way) trip in NorCal today. 90% freeway, average speed on the freeway of about 75 mph. We have a 7 seat GT on the 22/23 inch wheels. Probably 90° - 95° F ambient temperature

Going up a hill for a total elevation gain of approximately 2500 ft. We averaged 2.24 mi/kWh on the way up, or about 446 Wh/mi. This is actually exactly the number ABRP said I would get!

On the way down we averaged 3.06 mi/kWh or about 327 Wh/mi. AC was on and was at 70° F both ways.

Total trip average was 2.65 mi/kWh or about 377 Wh/mi.

The best efficiency I’ve seen in my Model 3 Performance with the same drive is about 421 Wh/mi going up the hill, and 243 Wh/mi going down the hill. Not bad considering that car is much smaller and weighs 2000 lbs less.

 

[hwy17er]

I have 7 seats and 21/22 - so range is 386 per Lucid. What’s absurd is range is like 436 on the 20/21 with 7 seats. The wheels have a huge impact. I’d wanted the smaller ones but took an inventory car.

And I DO have the aero inserts in my 21/22.

what's your real world range on the 21/22's?

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

what's your real world range on the 21/22's?

About 355 miles

 

[privacylaw]

I have a very similar scenario, San Mateo to Tahoe City, rather than Kings Beach (we should do a meet up some day). A Gravity will be my first EV, and I'm excited to stop buying gas. For the Air, I'm curious how much you've found winter weather affects how it does the drive to Tahoe?

Imo it really depends on the time of day. It's usually 45 + in the Winter in most of California. So no real loss. But in a cold snow storm, at night, yes, you'll lose 10-15%.

 

[privacylaw]

Should I expect that I can plug the Gravity in and instruct it to heat up the battery before I begin a trip from Lake Tahoe, and thus retard some of the cold weather impact? Or going the other direction, when I'm in the warmer central valley, would I be able to tell the car to get the battery extra warm before I climb into colder altitudes? I get that battery chemistry doesn't like cold, but I'm unclear on how much the Gravity's heat pump works to counteract that, or how much human intervention is possible or needed.

This will be my first EV, so unclear on a lot of the details.

Leaving Tahoe, never a problem because it's all down hill

 

[dbsb3233]

They convert 240V AC to the battery voltage and then run the HVAC off of that voltage. To be super pedantic, because the current probably flows along a metal bus within the battery you could argue that it is using the battery pack even though the battery cells themselves are not being used.

That's what I had assumed, just like a cell phone. That the heater just runs off the same circuit from the battery like always. And if the car happens to be charging at the time, it's just feeding it into the circuit as fast as it's being used.

 

[dbsb3233]

A few data points to add. We took a 44 mile (one way) trip in NorCal today. 90% freeway, average speed on the freeway of about 75 mph. We have a 7 seat GT on the 22/23 inch wheels. Probably 90° - 95° F ambient temperature

Going up a hill for a total elevation gain of approximately 2500 ft. We averaged 2.24 mi/kWh on the way up, or about 446 Wh/mi. This is actually exactly the number ABRP said I would get!

On the way down we averaged 3.06 mi/kWh or about 327 Wh/mi. AC was on and was at 70° F both ways.

Total trip average was 2.65 mi/kWh or about 377 Wh/mi.

The best efficiency I’ve seen in my Model 3 Performance with the same drive is about 421 Wh/mi going up the hill, and 243 Wh/mi going down the hill. Not bad considering that car is much smaller and weighs 2000 lbs less.

2.65 is a bit lower than I would hope for round trip in summer, even at 75 MPH. 2.65 x 123 = 326 mile range. That's a 16% loss off the 386 EPA for the 22/23s with 3rd row. Was hoping for a little closer to only 10% loss at 75 MPH, especially in a Lucid. But 88 total miles is a pretty modest sample size. Not bad, but hoped for a little better.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

2.65 is a bit lower than I would hope for round trip in summer, even at 75 MPH. 2.65 x 123 = 326 mile range. That's a 16% loss off the 386 EPA for the 22/23s with 3rd row. Was hoping for a little closer to only 10% loss at 75 MPH, especially in a Lucid. But 88 total miles is a pretty modest sample size. Not bad, but hoped for a little better.

I think it’s more like 117 usable, not 123. Doesn’t help your numbers, I know. But I know 3.30 is when my “dynamic” = “rated” of 386. So that’s 3.30x117 =386.1.

 

[dbsb3233]

I think it’s more like 117 usable, not 123. Doesn’t help your numbers, I know. But I know 3.30 is when my “dynamic” = “rated” of 386. So that’s 3.30x117 =386.1.

Ah, I was thinking I read 123 was usable, but I'm probably confusing that with our Macan that's reported as the usable rather than total battery.

So 117? Yikes, that makes these reports another 5% worse then. I know it's still more than any other EV, but that gap is shrinking. I remember when the Air came out there were range tests done that showed it was often getting full EPA on road trips, at speed. Was hoping for similar results with the Gravity but so far it's sounding more like the typical 15-20% below at highway speeds.

Same thing happened with our Macan. The Taycan was blowing it's EPA rating away, surprising to the upside (by a lot). Hoped to get similar results in our Macan, but no, we're often running about 10% below on road trips (less loss than most, but still significantly worse vs EPA than the initial EV model).

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

Ah, I was thinking I read 123 was usable, but I'm probably confusing that with our Macan that's reported as the usable rather than total battery.

So 117? Yikes, that makes these reports another 5% worse then. I know it's still more than any other EV, but that gap is shrinking. I remember when the Air came out there were range tests done that showed it was often getting full EPA on road trips, at speed. Was hoping for similar results with the Gravity but so far it's sounding more like the typical 15-20% below at highway speeds.

Same thing happened with our Macan. The Taycan was blowing its EPA rating away, surprising to the upside (by a lot). Hoped to get similar results in our Macan, but no, we're often running about 10% below on road trips (less loss than most, but still significantly worse vs EPA than the initial EV model).

Unfortunately, I’ve always found I have to take 10-20% off rated range for real world. That’s been my experience in Teslas and Rivian, so expected it with Lucid. Still drawn to the larger rated range as it allows more real world when you reduce it by 10-20%.

 

[dbsb3233]

Unfortunately, I’ve always found I have to take 10-20% off rated range for real world. That’s been my experience in Teslas and Rivian, so expected it with Lucid. Still drawn to the larger rated range as it allows more real world when you reduce it by 10-20%.

Yeah, with any other manufacturers. Lucid and Porsche set the bar much higher with the first EVs though. Setting higher hopes for their 2nds. Guess those were one-offs though.

 

[bassem]

I would like performance numbers that are based on reality:
Reality is actual driving with the glass canopy option as well as the HVAC function.
While we look at different metrics that are utilized, I ask the simple question: Can my Lucid achieve its stated range by any standard?
I have completed numerous 2000 mile trips as well as the urban stop and go. I have attempted gentle “baby asleep” driving and the sad fact is that the stated range numbers are ambitious.

I believe Lucid has done a first class effort in promoting the range. My new metric for my next purchase is 60% of stated range will not disappoint me.

 

[dbsb3233]

I would like performance numbers that are based on reality:
Reality is actual driving with the glass canopy option as well as the HVAC function.
While we look at different metrics that are utilized, I ask the simple question: Can my Lucid achieve its stated range by any standard?
I have completed numerous 2000 mile trips as well as the urban stop and go. I have attempted gentle “baby asleep” driving and the sad fact is that the stated range numbers are ambitious.

I believe Lucid has done a first class effort in promoting the range. My new metric for my next purchase is 60% of stated range will not disappoint me.

It's ultimately the fault of the EPA failing to develop new methodology for EVs. It's still based on ICE, where it fits quite well for that. But EVs don't act the same way. Driver priorities are quite different as well. With most EV drivers charging overnight at home, city range is usually irrelevant. But because of often sparse DCFC coverage (plus it taking way longer and being way more limited), range is a HUGE factor for road trips. The singular headline number for EV range should be reported as 100% highway-only, because that's where it matters. Instead, it uses the "combined" methodology that's heavily city-biased.

In ICE cars, highway efficiency is often better than city. While in an EV, highway efficiency is not only lower, it's a LOT lower.

The EPA needs to create an entirely different methodology for EVs. (And ditch the stupid MPGe while they're at it.)

 

[Klinkman]

Lucid does recommend keeping car plugged in at all times when not in use.

This is the opposite of what the rep described at the factory when I recently test drove the Gravity. "If you're just doing 20-30 mile round trips," he said, "wait for 10 or 15 of those before you charge."

Disclosure: not an owner (yet).