What is a reasonable winter range expectation for my new Touring?

[audiojerry]

My wife and I make an annual snowbird road trip from Wisconsin to Arizona in December, so there are several factors that would affect the range of our AT: 30 - 35 degree temps when we begin our trip, 600 lbs of combined baggage and passenger weight, operating the heater, and averaging 75 - 80 mph much of the time. The EPA estimates 411 miles with 19" wheels. What do you think would be a safe range assumption between charges if I charge to 80% each time under these conditions?

 

[thegman82]

In my 2023 touring I have logged 26K miles in the Philly delaware area since late December 2022. I am at 3.5 mi/kWh. In winter it dips to 3.4 and in summer it bumps to 3.6. I use the AC to my hearts content and 99% of the miles are highway, generally between 60mph and 85mph depending on traffic. I would estimate between 200 and 250 miles range from 80% depending on how fast one drives.

ABRP and plugshare apps are pretty good at helping me estimate.

Lot of threads here about the topic with others’ experiences.

 

[Sid432]

Mine gives me 3.3 miles in winter. Heat set at fan speed 3 and 75. Mix of city/highway driving.

 

[kort6776]

My wife and I make an annual snowbird road trip from Wisconsin to Arizona in December, so there are several factors that would affect the range of our AT: 30 - 35 degree temps when we begin our trip, 600 lbs of combined baggage and passenger weight, operating the heater, and averaging 75 - 80 mph much of the time. The EPA estimates 411 miles with 19" wheels. What do you think would be a safe range assumption between charges if I charge to 80% each time under these conditions?

why not charge the car to 100% to begin your trip?
if you want to mitigate the ranges losses slow down to about 70-75 mph and once the cabin is warmed up turn off the heat and rely on the seat heaters to stay comfy

 

[Bobby]

Mine gives me 3.3 miles in winter. Heat set at fan speed 3 and 75. Mix of city/highway driving.

Heck I get 3.1 in the summer!

 

[Sid432]

Heck I get 3.1 in the summer!

You have to drive it like you own it @Bobby
In summer, I get 3.9 . If I’m conservative and driving on HA @72 then 4.1.
I did the efficiency test on 70 miles round trip in winter on mid 50 degrees, no heat, 65 mph HA, heated steering/seats on. I got 3.7-3.9 (if I’m not mistaken )

 

[Daniel2022AT]

Of course start your trip at 100% but fast charging along the way is practical only to 80-85%. I get 4.2 in summer driving 74 mph, temps over 95F it drops to 3.9. In winter I get 3-3.3 depending on the temp. Efficiency really suffers below 20-25F.

 

[kae02]

Of course start your trip at 100% but fast charging along the way is practical only to 80-85%. I get 4.2 in summer driving 74 mph, temps over 95F it drops to 3.9. In winter I get 3-3.3 depending on the temp. Efficiency really suffers below 20-25F.

Can you share your wheel size and do you have aero covers on or off? Just curious. I only get 3.1 in summer on 20 inch without aero covers. In winter it drops to 2.9

 

[rfc805]

Wheels are relevant, but less so than the tires. Pilot Sport 4s have a lot more rolling resistance than the A/S 19s. Winter/snow tires usually are softer with more siping and are even higher rolling resistance - but, it's also very specific to the tire.

 

[HariK]

My wife and I make an annual snowbird road trip from Wisconsin to Arizona in December, so there are several factors that would affect the range of our AT: 30 - 35 degree temps when we begin our trip, 600 lbs of combined baggage and passenger weight, operating the heater, and averaging 75 - 80 mph much of the time. The EPA estimates 411 miles with 19" wheels. What do you think would be a safe range assumption between charges if I charge to 80% each time under these conditions?

My experience at that temp at 70mph similar load was 3.5 miles per kWh. At 75 to 80mph I would expect 3.3 in your case. However pay attention to the miles per KWh since last charge because that includes the HVAC, Battery Management system etc. That is the real number.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

Can you share your wheel size and do you have aero covers on or off? Just curious. I only get 3.1 in summer on 20 inch without aero covers. In winter it drops to 2.9

19’s. Of course aero covers. Use ACC. Be smart about driving style, can easily lose 30% efficiency by how you druve.

 

[audiojerry]

I have Pirelli's on 19" rims. I am pleased that during July and August I was averaging over 4 mi/kWh with about 60/40 city highway mix and usually about 75mph on highways. AC was always on. As temps are cooling down with temps in low-mid 70's I'm seeing 3.7 - 3.9. My most recent highway trip over the weekend covered 234 miles and I went from 100% to 34 charge and 3.9 kWh with temp at 75. That computes to 354 total miles.

Using google maps to plot my route Wisconsin to Arizona I won't need to travel more than 230 miles between 9 Electrify Americal charging points. Assuming those EA remain operating in early December, I feel comfortable with that. The coldest temps will be at the start of the trip when temps could be in the 20s to 30s and gradually getting warmer as we head southwest.

Thanks for all your useful info and advice.

 

[Ampere]

I've been driving an Air Touring in Illinois for the past 19 months We have the 19-inch wheels with the factory Pirellis inflated to 50 psi at the ambient temperature.
Winter range is variable, but dramatically reduced from summer range. Every degree below 55 F. makes a difference. Also wind direction and precipitation. Our worst case was last Christmas driving from Rockford back to Champaign. It was sleeting-raining with a strong crosswind and about 32 degrees. Even at barely 70 mph our efficiency was 2.8. We had to stop in Bloomington for a ten percent charge just to be sure we'd make it home. (Rockford to Champaign is about 180 miles.) Otherwise, we've covered those 180 miles going from a 90 percent charge to a 20 percent charge.

 

[PaulC]

After last EA charge, mi/kwh way down.
Had been 3.8-4 during summer 3.3 to 3-5 during winter, now 2.8 mi/kwh driving in town 45-50 degrees in 2023 AT with 23K miles and 19".
Concerned, but will have to see mi/kwh on trip from DC to CT this week. Hopefully gets up to mid 3s.

 

[Sid432]

After last EA charge, mi/kwh way down.
Had been 3.8-4 during summer 3.3 to 3-5 during winter, now 2.8 mi/kwh driving in town 45-50 degrees in 2023 AT with 23K miles and 19".
Concerned, but will have to see mi/kwh on trip from DC to CT this week. Hopefully gets up to mid 3s.

I see the same behavior. My efficiency takes a hit after DC charging. However, I do that occasionally. I came back home and plugged on L2 charger and my efficiency is back to 3.3-3.5 in 50 degrees with heated seats/steering on and temp set to 72 and fan speed at 2

 

[Daniel2022AT]

At or below 30F with typical winter wind etc. I have experienced winter efficiency of approx 75% of summer efficiency. For me that is about 3mi/kwh compared to 4mi/kwh.

 

[fisheral]

I'd say count on 200 miles. Anything else would be gravy.

 

[BS8899]

I'd say count on 200 miles. Anything else would be gravy.

I think @fisheral's suggestion of 200 miles is realistic given the following:
> highway speed 75mph
> winter conditions, temperature and wind
> Touring's rated range, derating to realistic achievable range, elevation transitions, etc.. You might start at 100% SoC, but are you going to charge to 100% SoC on each charging stop? Presumably, no....as such stops might take more than an hour. Realistically, you might be doing 5% (or 10%) to 80% SoC recharging stops.

Putting all of these together, I think @fisheral's recommendation of 200 mile segments seem prudent.

If you want to push it to 230 miles on your longest leg, consider driving at 60-65mph for that leg to be safe. That's why a real-time efficiency meter is such an useful metrology.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

A “one-size-fits-all” winter range number is not very useful. People here experience such a wide range of efficiencies due to geography, tires, and driving style, plus fast-charging SoC preferences, in addition to weather, the only relevant way to answer the question is with a percentage decline from normal summer conditions. Driving style, and usage of ACC and regen, alone can account for a +- 20% differential.

 

[BS8899]

A “one-size-fits-all” winter range number is not very useful. People here experience such a wide range of efficiencies due to geography, tires, and driving style, plus fast-charging SoC preferences, in addition to weather, the only relevant way to answer the question is with a percentage decline from normal summer conditions. Driving style, and usage of ACC and regen, alone can account for a +- 20% differential.

No one disagrees with what you said.

That's why there has been much advocacy for Lucid to implement the SoC upon arrival and the Real-Time efficiency meter. In reality, when @audiojerry and family drives from WI to AZ, each of his charging segment will have different efficiencies as modulated by temperature, terrain, speed, use of heater, night or day, etc. etc.

That said, the following factors will be prevailing. Each one will compromise the AT's range:

> first AT, like the other Lucid variants, will not deliver the EPA rated range on such a trip. Typical discounts ~25-30% at highway speed, with fair weather.
> @audiojerry plans to drive between 75-80mph. This will further rode the efficiency.
> we don't know what route he is going to take
> the temperatures could be colder or warmer
> use of in-car heaters, massage seats, etc. will compromise the efficiency further

Neither @fisherel nor I can predict his actual realizable range. Nevertheless, @fisheral's recommendation of planning for 200 mile legs is pragmatic.

Again, if @audiojerry researched his route and charging stops, he can use an Efficiency Meter or mental math to optimize his journey.