No Future For EV Pickup Trucks With Today’s Technology? What??

[DJL]

I just watched a most interesting hour-long interview of Lucid’s CEO, Peter Rawlinson, by Sam Abuelsamid that took place at the SXSW Conference last March. If you are interested in getting some insights on the Future of Lucid, you should take the time to watch it by clicking HERE.
During the interview, Peter said a number of interesting things, many of which you probably have heard before. However, at the very end of the interview, he shares his insight regarding the future of the EV pickup trucks. If you don’t want to watch the whole interview, you can just jump to 52:38 to watch and hear what he says about EV pickup trucks. My jaw is still on the floor!

 

[Electrified]

"Affordable and practical" Says it all, I've owned many trucks and have used them primarily to haul toys on a trailer, would I or could I use an EV P/U to haul my toys; NO

 

[thecodingart]

"Affordable and practical" Says it all, I've owned many trucks and have used them primarily to haul toys on a trailer, would I or could I use an EV P/U to haul my toys; NO

Of course you can…. The F150 Lightning is pretty phenomenal at it.

 

[Codyroo]

Hydrogen fuel cell or Natural Gas could also work for vehicle's that tow/haul things. An EV for a hauling vehicle is not the best way to do it. If you are using a pick up truck for light duty stuff, you can do the EV route. But if you are towing a boat or a horse trailer or a camper.......man.....I hope you like stopping every 100 miles to recharge.

 

[DJL]

Of course you can…. The F150 Lightning is pretty phenomenal at it.

I thought so too. And it is a very remarkable vehicle. However, an number of articles have been written on the topic of towing and all of the ones that I have read, recommend against it, which just blows me away. Here is what Camper Report said; "Technically, a Ford F150 could tow a fifth wheel recreational vehicle, but it is not recommended. A fifth wheel is rather large and very close to the tow capacity specifications almost to an unsafe level. Due to the smaller size and build of the truck, you will have less control over the trailer." Go figure!

 

[Codyroo]

I got a friend who works as a handy man. Sometimes he throws his Bike (Harley) in the back of his truck. An EV would work fine for him, because he's seldom hauling anything of significant weight. And, I think he'd LOVE a F-150 lightning. But, I do also know people who haul boats/horse trailers and I'd never recommend an EV truck to them (in our current EV state).

 

[Electrified]

Of course you can…. The F150 Lightning is pretty phenomenal at it.

Phenomenal for how few miles between charges/

Hydrogen fuel cell or Natural Gas could also work for vehicle's that tow/haul things. An EV for a hauling vehicle is not the best way to do it. If you are using a pick up truck for light duty stuff, you can do the EV route. But if you are towing a boat or a horse trailer or a camper.......man.....I hope you like stopping every 100 miles to recharge.

And in the case when I'm pulling a four place enclosed sled trailer that's over 7,000 lbs. at -10F it gets even worse, painful would be to kind to descrbe that trip.

 

[MoniputerLM]

I think that for 90% of the people that buy F150's, the Lightning is perfect and hope that Rawlinson is wrong.

I have ridden in a Lighting, didn't get to drive it, and think that it is a great truck, but time will tell.

 

[Codyroo]

I think that for 90% of the people that buy F150's, the Lightning is perfect.

I don’t know the exact number, but I suspect you are close with that estimate. I see way too many “pretty trucks”, the ones without a scratch in the bed/liner and a lack of mud under their off-road tires.

Trucks for image, rather than for work. I’m too judgey on this subject….

 

[MoniputerLM]

I don’t know the exact number, but I suspect you are close with that estimate. I see way too many “pretty trucks”, the ones without a scratch in the bed/liner and a lack of mud under their off-road tires.

Trucks for image, rather than for work. I’m too judgey on this subject….

I have a Hummer SUV reservation. If I get it next year, won't pay $50K over, I will probably never take it off-road and that's something it was designed for.

Until there are enough EV pickups in driver's hands, and they get enough time behind the wheel, we will not know the full story.

 

[hydbob]

I have a reservation on a Ford, Rivian, Chevy and Tesla. Hopefully a VW and Dodge soon. Whichever pickup comes first is my new work truck! Only use it for light duty and hauling mulch!

 

[Tesla2.0]

"Affordable and practical" —— That is nature of truck for common folks. I agree with Peter Rawlinson, right now the cost of battery is not effective yet to make it happen.

I personally owned F-150 Lariat and owning F-250 Lariat full size.

F-150 Lightning starts $39k. Add few bells and whistles for a few grands more to Lightning Pro to get 426HP and a range of 230 miles. Power is there, range is not practical enough to be drive around all day long for sites, needless to say bi-directional charge for construction equipments. One can Upcharge to 300 miles for $19,500 more, but why bother? Unless gas is $7/gal.

Lariat luxury interior base for 230 miles range $67k, add more range to near 300 miles, one pay close to $80k.

The real top of line is Platinum $91k + options at 536HP and 280 miles range. That is a bit close to practicality. But can ordinary Joe fork out that?

Ford and GM has much to lose bc Tesla is the fastest growing automobile company and coming after America’s top selling vehicle market with Cyber Truck. Ford is basically all-in on this, get it out of door before Rivian become household name. Ford has advantage of decades experience of production efficiency speed, Rivian doe not. I like Rivian with so many recreational niches like Jeep Wrangler for its pick-up, but it is not full size pick-up. My speculation is Ford will come out fast to protect its legacy and get diehard fan to support them. Tesla will then show their trump card of superior new battery specs, better infotainment and durability to overcome F-150 Light’s capability.

Tesla Gigafactory in Austin Texas is dissecting Lucid engines and benchmark Lucid Air in its Texas track. They are changing their battery architecture to 800-V. With much knowledge accrued and huge improvement coming. I am rather holding out for Cyber Truck than R1-T or Lighting.

It saddens me Jeep Wrangler 4XE can only have 21 mile full electric range while have to use other modes such as hybrid or gas. GM is behind and Chrysler is even more behind. Japanese brands are 5 years behind. My bets are with Tesla and Lucid.

 

[limtless]

I just watched a most interesting hour-long interview of Lucid’s CEO, Peter Rawlinson, by Sam Abuelsamid that took place at the SXSW Conference last March. If you are interested in getting some insights on the Future of Lucid, you should take the time to watch it by clicking HERE.
During the interview, Peter said a number of interesting things, many of which you probably have heard before. However, at the very end of the interview, he shares his insight regarding the future of the EV pickup trucks. If you don’t want to watch the whole interview, you can just jump to 52:38 to watch and hear what he says about EV pickup trucks. My jaw is still on the floor!

I read from the Tesla earnings call that Tesla has 1/10 the operations expenses of Rivian and Tesla is 100x the size of Rivian. He's probably right, Peter, but Tesla has decades on everyone, we shall see.

 

[Electrified]

I think that for 90% of the people that buy F150's, the Lightning is perfect and hope that Rawlinson is wrong.

I have ridden in a Lighting, didn't get to drive it, and think that it is great truck but time will tell.

You're probably spot on with your 90% assessment of who is buying the Lightning and what it is being used for; sports practice, grocery getting, low esteem booster, or in the case of a business like mine it would be used for light inner-city deliveries such as ladders, tools, and supplies for a few day project. With that said I have to agree with Rawlinson that batteries just aren't practical for trucks, some examples would be a pickup loaded with pre-cut lengths of copper feeder wire or pulling an equipment trailer, or our Chevy 4500 stakebodies, and Chevy Low Cab Forward box trucks.

EV trucks will have limited practical use, and let's be honest sports practice, grocery getting, and low esteem boosting just are not practical uses for a P/U.

 

[hydbob]

You're probably spot on with your 90% assessment of who is buying the Lightning and what it is being used for; sports practice, grocery getting, low esteem booster, or in the case of a business like mine it would be used for light inner-city deliveries such as ladders, tools, and supplies for a few day project. With that said I have to agree with Rawlinson that batteries just aren't practical for trucks, some examples would be a pickup loaded with pre-cut lengths of copper feeder wire or pulling an equipment trailer, or our Chevy 4500 stakebodies, and Chevy Low Cab Forward box trucks.

EV trucks will have limited practical use, and let's be honest sports practice, grocery getting, and low esteem boosting just are not practical uses for a P/U.

I disagree with your last statement. Everyone needs to see how big my d#$% is driving around in my F150 lightning...except it looks exactly like a normal F150 except a couple badges...but an EV pickup is perfect for my business practice, hauling light duty and in this regard its still efficient enough. @MoniputerLM is roght though about rhe 90%

 

[DJL]

I read from the Tesla earnings call that Tesla has 1/10 the operations expenses of Rivian and Tesla is 100x the size of Rivian. He's probably right, Peter, but Tesla has decades on everyone, we shall see.

So true. I just can not envision Lucid competing with Tesla regarding market share anytime in the not too near future. Don't get me wrong, I think Lucid has a great future, so much so, that I have invested in the company. It is just so far behind that it will take a very long time and a bit of luck to go with the great engineering and technology that Lucid has (and will continue to develop).

 

[LCIDdreams]

I read from the Tesla earnings call that Tesla has 1/10 the operations expenses of Rivian and Tesla is 100x the size of Rivian. He's probably right, Peter, but Tesla has decades on everyone, we shall see.

I think it’s more like Tesla had 1/10 the OpEx expenses when it was at a similar phase and scale as Rivian is now. Just from memory I think Teslas OpEx last quarter was higher than Rivians but not by a huge amount. Still Tesla is way bigger as you say and producing at 300x the rate or more. That does suggest Rivian’s spending is out of control and they are going to need to really get a handle on that, or possibly not survive.

 

[hydbob]

F150 is getting 0.8mi/kwh towing an airstream. Probably why towing for EVs is not yet practical.

Lightning Towing Stats with my 23FB Airstream Trailer

I was able to tow the Airstream around 30 miles today and understand how the Lightning does with some weight behind it. The TL;DR is that with a 23-foot Airstream, I am seeing 0.8mi/kWh. Compared to the 1.5-1.8 I have seen on my road trips thus far without the trailer, its around 50% of the...

www.f150lightningforum.com

 

[MPawelek]

This is not surprising

 

[Chizle]

I think its the use case mix. EVs deliver value through lots of efficient use as your DD vehicle. Whereas the heavy duty hauler should only be used when hauling is needed and that is not often enough to warrant going the EV route - batteries like to be used, they don't like to sit. Ironically, most people that have heavy duty trucks as their DD never actually haul much of anything with them.