Long time EV owner looking at Gravity

adrianco

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I live in California near Salinas/Monterey. We got a Nissan Leaf in 2011, a Fiat 500e in 2013 both on leases. Bought a 2010 Tesla Roadster in 2013 and still have it. 2020 Model 3 Performance with FSD that is our daily driver (along with a bought this before Elon went nuts sticker). Looking at Gravity or maybe a Rivian R2 to replace the Model 3 eventually, but we are heavy users of FSD and I’m hoping Dream Drive improves a lot before we go for a change. We own shares in Rivian and Lucid, sold our Tesla shares several years ago.
 
Someone with a Rivian R2 will chime in if I'm wrong, but my impression is that Tesla FSD >Rivian>Lucid. Since I dislike FSD, I use it sparingly and thus is not an issue for me.

As many in this forum have learned, buy based on the features present, not promised. Since you live in California, I assume it would be easy to test drive the R2 and Gravity when it becomes more available.
 
I expect the R2's driving experience to be like a small R1, a conventional truck ride. Gravity will be less capable offroad, but smoother and more comfortable as a daily driver. Gravity is larger than your Model 3 (I drove a Model 3 for years before replacing it with an Air GT). I think you can hope for hands-free freeway driving from Lucid at some point in the future, but not "FSD". I'll second the opinion that it's best to buy a car for what it does at time of purchase rather than counting on future enhancements and new features.
 
Since your current daily driver is a Sedan (Tesla Model 3), wouldn’t it be logical to look at Lucid Air? Available now, immediately, with plenty of discounts and rebates, especially on a lease. Plus, Gravity is more expensive, and with essentially zero discounts.

I am afraid nothing Lucid or Rivian offer currently rivals Tesla’s FSD. So if that’s a must for you, you are “stuck” with Tesla. Sorry
 
I find DA to be as good as Tesla’s Autopilot. I haven’t had any major issues with it; in fact, I’ve had fewer with it than I did with autopilot.

But it isn’t FSD either, and it won’t drive you around surface streets. I found FSD terrifying, because it tried to kill me a number of times, but YMMV.

I’d recommend test driving one, and testing out Drive Assist and seeing what you think.
 
I'm an Rivian R1S owner and a Lucid Air owner. Here are my immediate thoughts:

1. Tesla has attracted many people who view cars as appliances with their emphasis on pushing FSD. As a a car guy, FSD is literally the last thing I want in a car. That said, I couldn't tell you how FSD compares to what Lucid offers, because I don't have Lucid's DD. Rivian's equivalent does everything I would want in such a system and nothing more, which is to make long highway journeys less taxing; I find it quite pleasant for that purpose. For what it's worth, I know that Rivian's R2 will include Rivian's improvement on its current system, and given its generally great software, I expect it to offer a great experience. RJ Scaringe, Rivian's CEO and Founder (and antithesis to Elon) has put a lot of emphasis on its next generation of driver assistance systems by including more hardware in the Gen2 R1s and I have no doubt it will be offered in the R2.

2. The Gravity and R2 are extremely different vehicles. I haven't driven the Gravity, but based off what I know about the Air, the overall design and engineering philosophy of Lucid, and the choices made by the design team, the Gravity is a full featured, highly-engineered 7 seat crossover that performs with the very best vehicles on the market, bar none. It offers the smoothest, quietest, most competent driving capabilities in a shape that will accommodate many full sized adults and their gear without the bulk and inefficiencies that typically come with such vehicles. In short, it's probably one of the most compelling vehicles to own at present if you have many people to regularly transport. As such, you'll pay for the privilege - it's priced like the luxury performance vehicle it is.

The R2, on the other hand, is Rivian's "volume" car; it's a smaller R1 with decontented features that will allow Rivian to sell to a larger population and thereby put Rivian on a path to profitability. It too, will be a major player in its class, but it's not "the whole enchilada" like the Gravity is. I have no doubt that the R2 will be a nice vehicle, but it won't be anywhere near the Gravity in terms of overall driving experience. Very, very different vehicles.

3. The R2 makes a lot of sense as a Model 3 replacement. I've sat in the R2 a few times and it's "right sized". Believe it or not, it's the same length of the Model 3 at about 185" long with a 2" longer wheelbase and thereby will have more passenger room. With its square shape and hatch, it will also have tons more cargo and headroom and increased shoulder room with its more generous tumblehome. Rivian has stated that the R2 range will be quite broad, offering everything from a single motor, stripped-out value model, to a fire breathing tri-motor variant with all the bells and whistles. I have found Rivian's driving modes that offer the gamut from efficiency (turning off the rear motors in my quad motor R1S, leaving only the front motors activated) to snow mode, and rock crawling modes to be very well calibrated; I expect R2s driving modes to offer lots of capability that will differentiate it from more pedestrian competitors.

Overall, your individual preferences will determine which route you go. If you demand the very best, the Gravity is your answer. If you're price conscious, don't want/need the extra refinement of the Lucid, and favor driver assistance above all else, the R2 will probably be the more sensible choice. Either way, both are big wins coming from a Model 3.
 
For now, we don’t need another car. We have an old SUV that we don’t use much and the Model 3 replacement would replace both. I’m waiting for Gravity to be ready for test drives, I’ve test driven an Air and have lots of miles in Model S. Gravity is bigger than I’d like, and maybe later this year the R2 could be shipping. The mid-size Lucid is another year out….
 
I meant in a year for R2. I’ve also looked at the Porsche Macane E, (we’ve had a Boxster for over a decade and know/like the brand) but think it’s over-priced and is missing one pedal driving and good software. Also I don’t think I need the top spec Gravity. I'm here to learn more about Lucid as the product develops.
 
Check the Polestar 3 as well. Gravity may be a better value in a year or so as lower-priced trims become available. But for me the Polestar 3 is currently a serious contender at a lower level of amenities and price point. And its software has a year or so of head start over Gravity's.
 
Polestar 2 is our usual rental car, so I know the brand well. They are ok, but their software doesn’t get better over time. The China made tariffs are going to be a problem in the US market for Geely (Polestar, Lotus etc). Also I bought Lucid for less than $3 and will hold it at least until I want to buy a car. It’s like a deposit, but if they successfully ship Gravity and the mid-range, the stock should go up enough to get a “free” car out of the profits. That strategy worked for me when I bought some Tesla shares in 2012.
 
If FSD is a priority for you, you're not going to like what Rivian and Lucid offer. I've owned all 3. Rivian and Lucid driving assist is not only very simple highway lane assist with lane changing...it only works on mapped freeways. So if you're on a low-traffic expressway or single-lane road, you won't be able to use it.

Pros for Lucid -
Driving Dynamics
Build Quality
Materials
Efficiency and Space Management
Service (if you're nearby to a center)

Cons for Lucid -
Software is buggy and glitchy and a souring experience if you rely on the car for daily driving needs
Driver Assist is quite bad and not confidence inspiring
Pricing (you will pay more over other EV brands)
 
I meant in a year for R2. I’ve also looked at the Porsche Macane E, (we’ve had a Boxster for over a decade and know/like the brand) but think it’s over-priced and is missing one pedal driving and good software. Also I don’t think I need the top spec Gravity. I'm here to learn more about Lucid as the product develops.
Many of us are eagerly waiting for a mid-specced Gravity Touring. My wife mentioned she started getting concerned with the size of large SUVs, so the Dynamic Handling Package and RWS will be a very useful capability.
 
I’ve watched the Out Of Spec reviews of Rivian and Lucid and Tesla doing their Hogback Challenge. They didn’t even touch the steering wheel of the Tesla for the entire trip out and back. That’s also our experience, I drive my Tesla when parking at the start or end of a trip or when there’s a fun twisty road. We’ve watched it get better and learned how to manage it over the last 5 years and my wife also uses FSD for most of her trips.

I think the current Lucid community is pre-selected to be people who don’t care about or don’t like FSD. There’s also going to be some Tesla FSD users like me who want to see substantial progress on ADAS before we buy a Lucid (or anything else) and I’m prepared to wait a while, and do my research.
 
I think the current Lucid community is pre-selected to be people who don’t care about or don’t like FSD.
Lucid is marketed towards “drivers”. Similar to Porsche, they have terrible ADAS too. Both take a slightly different approach to Driving Dynamics, but it seems to me that Porsche is who Lucid is aspiring to compete with.

But yea, you don’t buy a Porsche or a Lucid for the ADAS
 
it only works on mapped freeways
I now have it on good authority this is not true, and is a misunderstanding. Drive Assist is geo-fenced to certain classes of roads, as has always been the case (highways, etc.). This is what people seem to mean by “pre-mapped,” but that is not the right term for it. Since 2.4.0, Lucid has used HD maps to improve performance when coverage is available, but the feature is still available even when HD maps is not.

I also thought this, fwiw, and have since stood corrected.
 
I now have it on good authority this is not true, and is a misunderstanding. Drive Assist is geo-fenced to certain classes of roads, as has always been the case (highways, etc.). This is what people seem to mean by “pre-mapped,” but that is not the right term for it. [...]

It's fairly common around this area to have "mapped" (ie., Drive Assist-enabled) highways overpassing minor roads. The "Drive Assist Available" message on the dash will appear as you drive under these overpasses, and if you've got quick reflexes and/or are driving a suitably low speed, you can get DA to enable for a second as you pass underneath. I think that lends credence to the idea that it's not a matter of a specific section of road being "pre-mapped," as with a system like SuperCruise, but rather just that the road or road type has being flagged as okay-for-DA, with coarse geofencing limits for enforcement.

I'll also add my opinion re: Porsche ADAS that while it's great that it can be enabled on any road at anytime, it is inferior to Lucid's system on roads where the two are both usable. I'm not claiming that Drive Assist is particularly good, just that Innodrive is particularly not good.

(yes, I know Innodrive is just the name of a subset of Porsche's ADAS features like active curve speed control while the lane-keeping functionality has a name like Lane Keeping Assist or something similarly creative....but that's just boring)
 
The question is how long it takes to catch up. Everyone is working on ADAS. Meanwhile if I want to drive myself I have cars that don’t even have power assisted steering…
 
I don't know if Porsche's Macan EV has improved ADAS over the Porsche model you are referring to, but it did pretty well on Out of Spec's Hogback Road test:
 
The question is how long it takes to catch up. Everyone is working on ADAS. Meanwhile if I want to drive myself I have cars that don’t even have power assisted steering…
I would not count on Lucid achieving anything like Tesla's FSD in the near future. Tesla's FSD team alone is several times larger than Lucid's entire software dev group.
 
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