How the Cybertruck charges at existing Superchargers - could Lucid do something like this?

[austinlucid]

Hey folks, not an electrical engineer so was hoping someone could explain this better to me. With Tesla opening their Supercharger network to more companies and as it looks like NACS will "win out" in the US, one thing that has been mentioned in these forums is that the existing Superchargers wouldn't help much for the Air (even if you could use a converter), because the Air uses a high voltage system, and the lower voltage in the existing Superchargers means you'll only get like 50 kW or so while charging.

However, I knew the Cybertruck also uses a high voltage system, so I was curious how it would work with existing Superchargers, and I saw this post online, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38480949:

"I am curious what cybertruck will charge like at existing superchargers that max out at 400V. GM's clever solution is to present the battery pack as 2 400V packs. It does pose some very tricky pack balancing requirements though. Other 800V cars charge quite poorly on 400V stations, usually with a hard cap at much lower than the potential max charge due to inverter limits."

A follow-up to that said that Cybertruck will indeed use this "pack splitting" technique,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730391023799386480

: "Pack splits into two to charge natively on existing 400V charging infrastructure, no costly / lossy booster required"

So my question is whether Lucid could do something like this, if not for existing cars than for future models, and if so (or if not), what would be the pros/cons of this approach?

 

[xponents]

Hey folks, not an electrical engineer so was hoping someone could explain this better to me. With Tesla opening their Supercharger network to more companies and as it looks like NACS will "win out" in the US, one thing that has been mentioned in these forums is that the existing Superchargers wouldn't help much for the Air (even if you could use a converter), because the Air uses a high voltage system, and the lower voltage in the existing Superchargers means you'll only get like 50 kW or so while charging.

However, I knew the Cybertruck also uses a high voltage system, so I was curious how it would work with existing Superchargers, and I saw this post online, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38480949:

"I am curious what cybertruck will charge like at existing superchargers that max out at 400V. GM's clever solution is to present the battery pack as 2 400V packs. It does pose some very tricky pack balancing requirements though. Other 800V cars charge quite poorly on 400V stations, usually with a hard cap at much lower than the potential max charge due to inverter limits."

A follow-up to that said that Cybertruck will indeed use this "pack splitting" technique,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730391023799386480

: "Pack splits into two to charge natively on existing 400V charging infrastructure, no costly / lossy booster required"

So my question is whether Lucid could do something like this, if not for existing cars than for future models, and if so (or if not), what would be the pros/cons of this approach?

Lucid cannot do this, sadly. I'm sure @Adnillien can go more into detail on this, but the gist of it is that doing this would involve more wiring in the battery and therefore less efficiency overall.

 

[Tâm]

Lucid cannot do this, sadly. I'm sure @Adnillien can go more into detail on this, but the gist of it is that doing this would involve more wiring in the battery and therefore less efficiency overall.

It sounds like you answered yes Lucid can indeed do it but chose not to because it favors efficiently.

 

[xponents]

It sounds like you answered yes Lucid can indeed do it but chose not to because it favors efficiently.

Yes. However, this is a hardware change.

 

[joec]

Hey folks, not an electrical engineer so was hoping someone could explain this better to me. With Tesla opening their Supercharger network to more companies and as it looks like NACS will "win out" in the US, one thing that has been mentioned in these forums is that the existing Superchargers wouldn't help much for the Air (even if you could use a converter), because the Air uses a high voltage system, and the lower voltage in the existing Superchargers means you'll only get like 50 kW or so while charging.

However, I knew the Cybertruck also uses a high voltage system, so I was curious how it would work with existing Superchargers, and I saw this post online, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38480949:

"I am curious what cybertruck will charge like at existing superchargers that max out at 400V. GM's clever solution is to present the battery pack as 2 400V packs. It does pose some very tricky pack balancing requirements though. Other 800V cars charge quite poorly on 400V stations, usually with a hard cap at much lower than the potential max charge due to inverter limits."

A follow-up to that said that Cybertruck will indeed use this "pack splitting" technique,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730391023799386480

: "Pack splits into two to charge natively on existing 400V charging infrastructure, no costly / lossy booster required"

So my question is whether Lucid could do something like this, if not for existing cars than for future models, and if so (or if not), what would be the pros/cons of this approach?

Lucid will likely do something like this on future models. Probably not the same methodology, but they'll come up with some way for Gravity and future Airs to be able to charge faster on these old, crappy existing chargers.

Current cars are out of luck.

Further, the fact Tesla made this compromise for CyberTruck is a good indicator they don't plan on updating their Supercharger network to 1000v architecture for quite some time. My guess is several years. Especialy now that almost every automaker foolishly agreed to switch to NACS without any promises (not that you could trust it) that they would upgrade.

The entire NACS fiasco is a step backwards, unfortunately, for advanced high-voltage charging infrastructure.

My hops is because NACS is open to other manufacturers, someone else will come in and produce 1000v chargers with NACS plugs in enough quantities to unseat Tesla's pending monopoly. Maybe then there will be more pressure for Tesla to actually upgrade their aging chargers.

 

[Adnillien]

Lucid cannot do this, sadly. I'm sure @Adnillien can go more into detail on this, but the gist of it is that doing this would involve more wiring in the battery and therefore less efficiency overall.

@xponents excutive summary is good. Full post that he is referencing is here:

Off-Topic - CyberTruck Innovations - Hagerty high quality review

Have you met @blueice89? He took the Air off-roading, and I would bet a whole mag clip, that he would happily unload some 9s into his cybertruck lmao (Ribbing in good fun, don’t @ me) Not only will people shoot their Cybertrucks. There will be entire YouTube and TikTok channels devoted to...

lucidowners.com

Keep in mind that GM's approach is very different than Tesla CT. The GM drive units are 400V and the battery voltage can be doubled to enable faster charging of its massive 200kWhr battery. The Tesla CT drive units are 800V and the battery can be split in parallel to charge at 400V. GM's approach is strange to me but probably the result of buying many components from tier one suppliers rather than developing in house.

 

[Adnillien]

Lucid will likely do something like this on future models. Probably not the same methodology, but they'll come up with some way for Gravity and future Airs to be able to charge faster on these old, crappy existing chargers.

I am not sure that Lucid will do this or something equivalent on Gravity, it is possible but according to Eric Bach still in discussion. I also think that increased DC to DC boost power from the Wunderbox is more likely than splitting the battery. The decision depends on how you read the tea leaves of the charging infrastructure. The future is 1000V and 920V is a requirement for NEVI funding. The question is how soon it will happen and does Lucid believe Tesla's promised time frame. Carrying extra weight, complexity and cost for something that will only get used for a very short time does not make sense. If Lucid believes that expanded high voltage charging is still five years out, then I agree Lucid will add this capability.

 

[Sandvinsd]

Lucid will likely do something like this on future models. Probably not the same methodology, but they'll come up with some way for Gravity and future Airs to be able to charge faster on these old, crappy existing chargers.

Current cars are out of luck.

Further, the fact Tesla made this compromise for CyberTruck is a good indicator they don't plan on updating their Supercharger network to 1000v architecture for quite some time. My guess is several years. Especialy now that almost every automaker foolishly agreed to switch to NACS without any promises (not that you could trust it) that they would upgrade.

The entire NACS fiasco is a step backwards, unfortunately, for advanced high-voltage charging infrastructure.

My hops is because NACS is open to other manufacturers, someone else will come in and produce 1000v chargers with NACS plugs in enough quantities to unseat Tesla's pending monopoly. Maybe then there will be more pressure for Tesla to actually upgrade their aging chargers.

Not planning to charge on the superchargers anytime in the near future. All the other vehicles will now navigate to them, creating lines, and they cost more than the other Networks. I think EA, Chargepoint, EVgo, etc. will be less used And cheaper than the Supercharger network and more reliable than today.